Interrogation/Torture vs. Information

I think torture for whatever reason is never acceptable behaviour for a modern and civilized society.

The various arguments presented to support torture rely too much on the "if" factor to be of any practical application. The situation and mindset being snuck in under the radar here is that those in authority will have the right, nay, the duty to inflict pain on their fellow man.

Take a hypothetical situation. ATS is banned in the morning. A few ATS members are rounded up and tortured for "information". It isn't important whether anything interesting is learned or not, all of a sudden posting on ATS is a fearful and dangerous proposition. A vocal and sizeable community is cowed. In what sense was torture a valuable tool to the authorities, do you think?

Too far-fetched you might say. Go read the Patriot Act again I say. Go see how easily you could be deemed a terrorist and then ask yourself are you happy you supported state-sanctioned torture as they start sparking off the electrodes next to your testicles.

I agree, well put. Does anyone have a link to the patriot act on a GOVERNMENT website? So that I can link to it for PROOF that there even is such a thing. The fact that I have to prove it's existance proves something has subverted the media worldwide. The reason I write worldwide is the fact that my father who watches the news 5 times a day does not believe what I've told him about the Patriot Act. He claims that "something like that could NEVER be brought through the American Congress...

"The freedom of the Press belongs to those who owns one"
A.J. Lieblings


Sincerely

Cade

Sure

DOJ website detailing Patriot Act

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Take a hypothetical situation. ATS is banned in the morning. A few ATS members are rounded up and tortured for "information". It isn't important whether anything interesting is learned or not, all of a sudden posting on ATS is a fearful and dangerous proposition.

Emphasis mine.
Exactly, HMITD. Torture is terrorism! IMO, those who advocate torture advocate terrorism. And those who actually perform torture are terrorists.

It depends what you mean by 'torture'?

I have attended and completed POW Handling, Conduct After Capture and R to I Courses throughout my time in the services. Although I am not
'current', what I do know is that 'physical' torture of any kind is considered by UK interrorgators as being counter-productive.

If you suspect a man has information and you need it in a hurry, do you put his testicles in a vice and tighten it until he spills the beans?

What about any information he divulges? Do you consider it suspect? Has he told you a 'tall story' to stop his testicles from being crushed? More to the point, is your suspect getting 'high' on the pain and not telling you the truth becausehe knows the pain will stop?

Another point to consider, is what he told you really the truth, or has he just said it to stop the pain?

In all my years of service, I have only seen one ocaission where torture
'allegedly' took place. It was 'somewhere' in Oman. An Adoo had been caught by the Firquir. To make matters worse, the guerilla came from the same village as several of the Firquirs. After beating him, they placed a piece of cloth over the suspect's mouth and nose, then poured stale, foul-smelling water over it. The effect was like drowning the poor terrified man. He talked but when the Firquir acted on this newly acquired 'info', they were ambushed and lost several men.

So, what I ask you is this. Is it easier to deprive a suspect of sleep, keep him or her in a so called 'stress' position and play low intensity 'white noise' in the background and keep a light shining on him or her whilst they are in a small cell or is it better to apply physical force in order to make the suspect talk?

In WWII when Resistence fighters were tortured, hundreds of prisoners
'went through the mill', did not talk but had their convictions and resolve not to talk hardened. Their bravery was outstanding. The same can be said to apply today.

Confusing is it not?

Those who support, condone, or sit in silence while people are being tortured are no better than the torturers. The problems with most americans, they have no clue as to the true history of our country and what we have done to others since the sailing of columbus and his slaughtering of the native islanders before landing in this country, the genocide there, the enslavement of the blacks, the genocide on native americans was only the beginning. America has built up quite a load of karmic debt, and gw bush and dick cheney wont have the say about that little matter, the fruit is ripe on the vine and the reapers are at hand, our karma is coming home to roost, those who are willingly ignorant , those who are complacent, those who are like the neocons, all are going to be forced to face the truth and reality of what they have done over time through much pain and suffering. Freedom, liberty and justice for all men is a sick joke, it is time for true justice to be fullfilled, the govt is only an illusion, there is no govt, we are controlled by capitalist and corporations by the rich, the so called govt was created by the rich for the rich, controlled by the rich, and you think your vote is worth something, your delusions will soon end in misery, we have earned our karmic debt, rejoice in it, if we cannot and will not awaken to the error of our way, rejoice that our own karma will bring about a correction in our way. Most have lived a life of lies, lies, and more lies, filled with ignorant beliefs, beliefs that have imprisoned them, but the magnatude of our karmic debt will shake the ignorant and the uncaring from their sleep. We are on our way down, and the rich are not going to save us, the criminals that rule are not going to save us, sleep on america, the end is in sight, rejoice in the actions you have taken to create the mess that we have because your reward is coming.

Warhorse.

Does that mean us Brits are safe, then?

Just wondering.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Does that mean us Brits are safe, then?

Dunno about that. What with the whole karmic debt scheme of things, I'd say you had better make sure your insurance policies are up to date!!!!

As for torture as terrorism, well said. Also the insights into proper POW handling were interesting. The right to torture being seeked here has nothing to do with any "24" TV show-type scenario. It is an effort to desensitize the general populace to a more brutal type of governance.

You had rights before. Now all you have are fears about what they can do to you without reproach. What better way to make the people behave themselves? Fear & Control. Say it with me. Fear & Control.

I've done it for real guy.

Both the 'official' Geneva Convention POW Handling, Conduct after Capture and Resistence to Interrogation and the 'unofficial' POWH, CAC and RtoI.

You cannot begin to even dream about, what guys like me have gone through, and to liken my experience to a 24 hjour TV gameshow, just illustrates you for the armchair warrior you so obviously are!