Oh this is interesting...Please watch & listen to the PROOF

Originally posted by anniejhops
Alex Jones? I would not consider him to be a reliable source for a reference on a resturant much less anything else.

Do you know what makes you say that? your going by heresey aren't you.

PNAC? Don't know alot so will leave that alone. Downing Street memos.......that one, I may say.......perhaps.

Well they are real, they are pulling the strings of the prez, cheney is a member and so is rumsfeld, so are many other people in washington, they are the extreme form of conservatives, perhaps you should od yourself a favour and read up on them, actually read what they are all about at their website and see how much they believe in offensive measures rather then upholding the constitution regarding using military to defend the country.. you don't read much do you. this whole thread is full of information of which you choose to not go over but rather comment on and you don't even know what your talking about... and I say that because your prior post admits to it.

www.pnac.org...

Originally posted by anniejhops
I don't believe this either. But what about the possibility of this admin. knowing that the attacks were going to happen and keeping quite and working with them to facilitate and cover up a reason to go to war in the middle-east?

Did you watch the Alex Jones film? Have you heard of PNAC? Did you see Fahrenheit 9/11? Have you read the Downing Street memos?

Alex Jones? I would not consider him to be a reliable source for a reference on a resturant much less anything else. Fahrenheit 9/11? Its a movie, if I respond further I will laugh myself to death. PNAC? Don't know alot so will leave that alone. Downing Street memos.......that one, I may say.......perhaps. As far as what was known previously, I do not doubt their were warnings that we either ignored or just did not understand or believe. I do not believe that the present administration signed up Bin Laden for the job.

Do I think the administration messed up before and after? Yes I do. I think it was stupidity, ego and lack of coordination, not pre-meditated malice. We continue to look for escapes goats to explain what is to difficult for us to understand.......We are hated by a lot of the world thus a target. For many years we thought we were untouchable and our faith was shaken when we saw that was not true. Instead of just understanding this is the world that many already live in (war, terror, snipers, bombs) we want to continue to try and keep it at bay and creating a "bad guy" within the gov't is one way of doing that.

I understand your statements and why people believe the theories. But they are pretty much that, theories. IMHO

I've said this before and I feel compelled to say this again:

The administration did not NEED to hire ANY middle-eastern personnel
OR bin laden for that matter. The all of american public knew his tactics
and set of atrocities globally..all that need be done is to NAME DROP...
just USE the name Bin Laden in the same context as a tragedy so great
as the 9-11 incident, and the public outcry will propagate VERY quickly
and would be next to impossible to stop without ANY solid proof that it
WASNT in fact bin laden.

"Creating" ?? a bad guy in the government? So what, a bad politician
is like a paradigm shift? Wake up Annie.

In fact, just by your stating that "this is your opinion" and not FACT, in
itself show a inherent flaw in our society doesnt it? I mean if the
"good government" as you would have us believe was being so
forthcoming with the evidence and ALL the data behind the attacks, then
certainly you wouldnt have to say anything at all "in your opinion" and point
directly to the facts. But this isnt the case, because they ARE NOT disclosing
the "facts" we have no choice but to ascribe to only our "opinions".



[edit on 5-8-2005 by alphabetaone]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
JFK has faded as a "consipiracy" . Why is that? We all KNOW the official government story is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

Sorry to veer off-topic, but - no we don't. Where is the incontravertible evidence that the assassination of JFK was "scientifically impossible"? There's lots of conspiracy theories supposedly discounting the "official" verdict, but they're just theories. I tend to the view that Oswald could have pulled off those shots. And (back on topic) I also tend to the view that the towers might have been taken down by fanatics, just as it was witnessed live by millions the world over. The planes hit, the structures got damaged, they fell.

The idea that shady forces are behind everything is seductive, but as I get older and recognise more and more that chance and randomness dictate how things occur, I find myself less and less seduced.

heh.

Boobus Americanus.

I like it.

The United States government thinks it's God... that is their problem...

If God created the world, the US government can destroy it... and that's obviously what they are doing, whether knowingly or not.

Someone earlier in this post got it right. You must be brain dead, blinded by your lame patriotism, or just really stupid to believe everything the media has told you about 9-11.

Wake up.

Originally posted by n0bby
There's lots of conspiracy theories supposedly discounting the "official" verdict, but they're just theories. I tend to the view that Oswald could have pulled off those shots.

Remind me again what Oswalds motive was? An American brainwashed by the USSR? Take a lot of motivatin to do that one. Remind me again of how you can pull off thise quick and accurate shots with a bolt action carbine, at that distance on a deminishing target going downhill with a tree in the way? Remind of why Jackie tried climbing out the back towards the shots, when two secret service men were in the front seat? Remind me again as to why Jackie then married an unattractive powerful greek shipping magnet one of the only people that could protect her from the Illuminati? Remind me again of the "magic bullet theorie" that was found unscathed on the gurnney after entering the president and just fell out on that gurnney after going twice the speed of sound?

The president had no ties to the Illuminati, and fired Allen Dulles was going to disband the CIA, get rid of the Federal Reserve and expose why w were starting to get involved with Vietnam. Those are the reasons that great man was murdered.

Wake up nObby.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by LoneGunMan]

My GOD, you lib psychos are truly a bunch of berserker monkies. I CAN'T BELIEVE you STILL think this was a war for OIL?!? LOL! Oh yea, gas prices have SO drastically deceased over the past year.

All you libbys have all these same qualities:

1) Have seen Michael Moores movie about 9-11
2) Have wanted to or have burned an American flag in order to PROVE your freedom.
3) Have thought about suicide.
4) Have miserable lifes and desperately want everyone else to feel miserable as well.
5) Preach about love although you are filled with hate.

Libbys? Are you kidding? Do you have any idea the meaning of what a Liberal is? Do you know what a Consevative is? You just proved you have no idea, because you have called moderates and true conservatives liberals.

I liberal is someone that wants government control over everything, they want to protect you from yourself. They want big government and big government spending. More taxation. Examples WOD, and the Patriot Act.

A Conservative on the other hand believes in poeple having as little government control over there lives as possible and small government with as little federal control as possible. Less government spending, and less taxation.

Bush is really a liberal, but telling the world he is conservative. It is what you do, not what you say.

You Faust, have just proven you total lack of any kind of political knowledge. Your just another Bushbot that doesnt think. I for one am non-partisan and do not believe in either Democrats or Republican parties. When it comes down to it they have just become the same thing.

Originally posted by Faust
I CAN'T BELIEVE you STILL think this was a war for OIL?!? LOL! Oh yea, gas prices have SO drastically deceased over the past year.

So why do you think the reason for our invading one of the most enriched countries with oil, and taken it over but we still do not have low prices?

Because the oil companies have figured out we have to by it at whatever prive they want. Its what the market will bare. They dont charge 20 dollars a gallon because our economy would collapse. So they figure out the maximum they can charge and still keep it all afloat.

Its profits stupid. The high prices are even more proof it was about oil. Oil is not the only reason there buddy boy. It is also about enflaming the Islamic world so they will attack us for real this time and they can take more of your rights away so that you stay a good little robot consumer.

woo-hoo-hoo, psycho man! LOL! First off, yes, i know the difference between libs and conservatives. You don't need to give the 101 history lesson. How basic can you get anyway? People who "RANT" against Bush are libs, you know it, i know it, EVERYBODY knows it.

About the oil: Of course you're RIGHT! Our military has guns in the backs of the Iraqis forcing them to give us FREE oil so the evil republicans can make BILLIONS off the poor. Of course, allowing the liberal media to wander FREELY around would OBVIOUSLY NOT notice this! Also, our big haste to give Iraq it's own FREE elected government, which CONTROLS the flow of their oil so they can survive is all a COVER-UP. The entire Iraqi counsel are ROBOTS under the Bush administrations control!

Honestly, you people need to get a freakin grip on reality and quit living in this conspiracy driven dream world.

I for one never rant against Bush, I just pointed out some glaring fact tht you seemed to miss. Like the fact that he says one thing but does something completly different.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So I must end debating you Faust for you are delusional and are beyond reason. So therefore adios amigos. You are a lost cause, if you believe in the governments conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by Faust
My GOD, you lib psychos are truly a bunch of berserker monkies.

^^ A Line filled with hatred ^^

I CAN'T BELIEVE you STILL think this was a war for OIL?!? LOL! Oh yea, gas prices have SO drastically deceased over the past year.

All you libbys have all these same qualities:

1) Have seen Michael Moores movie about 9-11
2) Have wanted to or have burned an American flag in order to PROVE your freedom.
3) Have thought about suicide.
4) Have miserable lifes and desperately want everyone else to feel miserable as well.

^^another line filled with hatred ^^

5) Preach about love although you are filled with hate.

Faust I think perhaps you need to slow down a bit on the coffee

Whatever the price of oil is to the end-consumer, the conglomerates will
make money hand over fist on it. How is that relevant?

A lot of interest groups have seen Michael Moores film what does that
establish? Ive seen Silence of the Lambs however im not about to rip
someones skin off to create a doll...also seems irrevelant.

Thoughts of suicide? I think it shows incredibly poor judgement and lots
of irresponsibility by bringing that up in the barometer in which you did nop
matter WHAT type of debate you are having. Suppose someone reading
this or repsponding to this actually has? You mock them by stating as much
and in the next breath talk about how OTHERS hate? Hypocrite.

Miserable lives and want others to be miserable as well? Hmm may we
please see your credentials as a psychobehaviorist to make this diagnosis?
Until which time that we see those credentials would it meet with your
approval to consider anything you have to say on that particular subject
as utter nonsense and entirely without merit? Thanks.

Now, perhaps you should go back and read ALL the material and begin
to educate yourself on the things that COULD potentially be. Lets examine
why there is a speculation about oil. Because someone asked for what
a possible motive could be..oil = money, you think that, contrary to proven
history YOU of course have the right answer in saying that "money could
not POSSIBLY be the motive for OUR government to do something like that...were the good guys!"

Wake up son

Originally posted by Faust
woo-hoo-hoo, psycho man! LOL! First off, yes, i know the difference between libs and conservatives. You don't need to give the 101 history lesson. How basic can you get anyway? People who "RANT" against Bush are libs, you know it, i know it, EVERYBODY knows it.

About the oil: Of course you're RIGHT! Our military has guns in the backs of the Iraqis forcing them to give us FREE oil so the evil republicans can make BILLIONS off the poor. Of course, allowing the liberal media to wander FREELY around would OBVIOUSLY NOT notice this! Also, our big haste to give Iraq it's own FREE elected government, which CONTROLS the flow of their oil so they can survive is all a COVER-UP. The entire Iraqi counsel are ROBOTS under the Bush administrations control!

Honestly, you people need to get a freakin grip on reality and quit living in this conspiracy driven dream world.

All I gotta say is if you were a true republican and knew how to think for yourself instead of turning hannity and colmes on every night telling you how to think, you would be able to tell....
When I listen to some people's arguments many times they sound the same, their explanations are similar, like your four points above.
I listened to hannity and colmes last night and a college boy called in saying he did what hannity told him to do to his 'liberal' teacher and got him in a corner, to then which hannity replied, 'isn't it great when you get a lib up against the wall' but a few months back after the election i remember him as well as fox saying that we should all stop playing party politics and unite under one umbrella 'america'... republican's are the worst for insulting and brainwashing, i haven't heard a lib on cnn or nbc say anything close to what hannity and o'reilly says about the other.

see the problem with people ike you is that your blinded by a) party pride, and b) patriotism... There is a time and place for patriotism but here in america i see and hear too many people giving up facts and conveniently dismissing them while lashing out like what you just did about assumnig the person is a lib and if not that then it's something about how great america is, and bush is awesome. the pnac's foreign policy is un american.

so you proved the above because you called me and other people in this thread libbies, which i am not. except for when it comes to social policies.

I said this in another thread to a poster like you.
if you were as american as you calimed to be, you would know of the warnings washington gave to the people about how dangerous political party affiliation is, and not take part.

You sir, do not think for yourself, your argument is far from the truth and your points are only regurgitated bs from your spin doctors.

This is not the america I know and love... This is becoming more and more everyday a right-wing authoritarian viewed country.

If you don't see that, then you need to put on some clear glasses and stop wearing the distorted ones your fox buddies want you to wear.


I challenge you choose who your favorite president is from the time this country was born,( preferrably from the 1700's early 1800's) and compare and contrast them with your current day president, and tell me what is so american about bush does. Because when you refer to 'american' i'm assuming you are referring to what made this country so great. which is the people (framers and early presidents) ...


[edit on 6-8-2005 by TrueLies]

You know, i don't watch Hannity & Colmes or listen to Rush Limbaugh for the same reasons you wackos SHOULDN'T listen to Al Fraken or visit Move On dot org. These views are purposely scewed to one side drastically. If you watch CNN, you should also watch Fox News equally to get a balanced view on the world. DECIDE FOR YOURSELF as opposed to what Michael Moores is lying to you about for you to believe in. After all, his MAIN purpose is to make money off of YOU.

Know the difference in the B.S. that you hear from "trusted" sources. When Ted Kennedy says that Bush lead us into an unjust war, remember that this same hooker drowning murderer is one of the many liberals who voted YES to invade Iraq.

Know the difference when Robert Bird says that Bush is unfit for office, he's a total hypocrite. A former Ku Klux Klan leader is unfit to be paperboy, much less a Senator who ALSO voted YES to invade Iraq.

Know the difference when Michael Moore's Farenheit 9-11 shows Bush doing NOTHING after being told of the Twin Towers being hit by planes that the REAL truth is hidden from you. The secret service man told the President what had happened and that he should appear to be calm while they prepare Air Force One and device a strategy of what to do next. This shows that it should be illegal to give a camera to a fat bloated orangutang. It causes gulible people to be misinformed.

If you people had your way, then:

Women would still be getting raped and tortured in Saddam's jails.
Saddam's neighbors would still be threatened by him.
The Kurdish would still be getting attacked and killed by the thousands.
The U.N. would still be ripping off the free world with the oil-for-food scandal.


Face it, you libs have no power, you've lost touch, you prefer to believe in conspiracy than facts. Kerry wasn't beaten by Bush in the 2004 elections, he was COMPLETELY CRUSHED! Don't you understand what this means?!? The world as you see it, doesn't exist! It's not me that should wake up, it is YOU.

Well you know Alex Jones, who I thought this topics first post was about, has never been a Liberal. He was a Republican who started his campaign against our corrupt Government during the Clinton administration, he continued it into the Bush administration. It is not about left or right, Republican or Democrat, there is only one corrupt corporate sponsored party and no matter who wins, they still win. Partisism is only used to divide us all, even though the average American would be close to the middle of the road. You know what happens when you are EXTREME left? a total Government controlled dictatorship. You know what happens when you are EXTREME right? anarchy, no Government at all. With the exception of a few I doubt many Americans wants either one. We are all close to the center with maybe a slight lean one way or another, that's all. But while we sit here and bicker with the person that is "opposite" of us the Government is corroding our country, regardless if it's Clinton or Bush in office.

[edit on 12-8-2005 by NoJustice]

Originally posted by Faust

various anti-lib hyperbole

You realise, right, that what you've done in that post is exactly what you're accusing others of doing?

Your rhetoric is no better than that of anyone who has fallen prey to the obviously skewed exaggerations of the Rabid-Antagonist-With-Severe-Case-Of-Verbal-Diarrhea Du Jour.

As for the videos in question - I'll reiterate. There's nothing in 'em to prove anything other than a rather nifty skill at skewing (there's that word again) situations to support a particular agenda.



Exactly what are they proving?