If U Believe or Not!

To the people who believe in Christ:
Right now is the time to really be praying, and controlling every action and decision, because Christ will be coming, and you cannot deny anything you've done...also you must become at peace with yourself and get as much hate out of you as possible, because the world today as we know it is becoming filled with more and more of this passion, and it is an addiction that may create bad decisions....
To the people who do not:
I tell you this not in a mockery, but I say that u that do not believe, needless to say, i suppose that sometimes u may believe in predictions, or fortune tellers, or whatever type of people that predict the future or whatever, i tell this because i am asking u to read the end of the Bible, Revelations, as a book, any normal book, since u say you do not believe, read this as u are reading anything else, not as what people say, and read it with an open mind, and if u believe, then u know where to go from there..but think about why would so many years of God be written if he was fake.....i have no other excuse to say that he is real...and how can people explain miracles?.. u can't.....right now is the time to start believing, because in the end...u will be judged....to everyone out there, I pray for you........




Mod Edit: to remove ALL-CAPS title

[edit on 26-7-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by prepared4thefuture
To the people who believe in Christ:
Right now is the time to really be praying, and controlling every action and decision, because Christ will be coming, and you cannot deny anything you've done

If you are praying and controlling every action (etc) because Christ is coming; then you missed the point entirely.

also you must become at peace with yourself and get as much hate out of you as possible, because the world today as we know it is becoming filled with more and more of this passion, and it is an addiction that may create bad decisions....

If you are getting rid of hate because it's so prevalant in the world; then you missed the point entirely.

To the people who do not:
....i am asking u to read the end of the Bible, Revelations, as a book, any normal book

If only Christians would just read the Bible as a normal book they wouldn't be so deceived. It's funny how people are so secure that the bible is the word of God just because it says so. How irrational is that? If the Harry Potter books said they were real, would you believe it? Same concept.

but think about why would so many years of God be written if he was fake

The bible, being a subtle deception, has nothing to do with God being real.

.....i have no other excuse to say that he is real...and how can people explain miracles?.. u can't

Take a lighter back to the stone age and you will be considered a god.

.....right now is the time to start believing, because in the end...u will be judged....

If you think you should start believing because you will be judged; then you missed the point entirely.

to everyone out there, I pray for you

And who are you to speak on behalf of another? Remember the "sliver and timber" parable?

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource

To the people who do not:
....i am asking u to read the end of the Bible, Revelations, as a book, any normal book

If only Christians would just read the Bible as a normal book they wouldn't be so deceived. It's funny how people are so secure that the bible is the word of God just because it says so. How irrational is that? If the Harry Potter books said they were real, would you believe it? Same concept.

Ok, that's not exactly fair. I understand that belief in the bible stems from the fact that the bible has a good moral basis. The point I'm trying to make is that strict disernment must be used no matter where the information comes from. We are in the realm of deception. If you believe you are exempt from this deception because of a book then you are a prime canidate to be deceived.

Shadow-

I haven't read any of your posts on this subject before, so, perhaps you can enlighten me. Then, I will try to address your contentions.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
... you missed the point entirely.

What is the point, as you see it?

The bible, being a subtle deception, has nothing to do with God being real.

Who is carrying out this subtle deception, and why?

Also, please, feel free to expand on your thoughts, beliefs, etc., so I can have a fairly good idea where you are coming from.

Grace & Peace,

Lightseeker

Originally posted by lightseeker
Shadow-

I haven't read any of your posts on this subject before, so, perhaps you can enlighten me. Then, I will try to address your contentions.

I will certainly try.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
... you missed the point entirely.

What is the point, as you see it?

First, I have a very good understanding of the bible and Christianity. I spent 17 years in the church. I do not wish to condemn anyone or their beliefs. I only wish to provide additional understanding that I believe has been granted to me.

My point:
If you seek to be "good" because you will be judged and could go to hell then you are giving up your free-will out of fear. An analogy. If you don't take cookies from the cookie jar because you'll be spanked, then you are being controlled by fear. Fear is not the path to spirituality. Fear is not the path to discover the depth of who you are.

The bible, being a subtle deception, has nothing to do with God being real.

Who is carrying out this subtle deception, and why?

I can't possibly answer the who because I could never prove my assertations. But, it must be realized that "Satan" is the great deceiver. It also must be realized that we each have been given everything we need to know our Creator. And that doesn't include a book. Try to imagine the infinitity of the Creator. And if we are created in that image then why would a book, going to a building or believing the words of another be necessary to know what we are?

The deception is one of fear. It's one of control through that fear. The idea is subtle. To know yourself is to take full responsibility for who you are and what you do. If you give that responsibility away then someone could deceive and control you. If you act "good" because of fear of some future punishment then you have given up the gift God gave you. That gift being a piece of God which is within you. In this physical reality it is easy to see things as black and white. It's easy to get caught up in that. It's far more difficult to realize that even the so called "evil" people are created by God and given the free-will to choose how they wish to manifest their creation.

Also, please, feel free to expand on your thoughts, beliefs, etc., so I can have a fairly good idea where you are coming from.

There are things in the bible (or interpretations thereof) that don't make sense to me once I cleared myself of the emotion of fear. One such thing, is the idea that we are given one life to make it or break it, so-to-speak. That doesn't make sense coming from the source of infinite creativity and love.

If one thing doesn't make sense then I find it necessary to examine all things I've been taught in this life, with a detached perspective. This offers a vantage point that cannot be found while in e-motion. I jump out of the e-motion so that I'm not swept away by it. So that I can see it for what it is and learn from it. So that I can choose which e-motion I wish to partake in, if any.

My viewpoint is one of responsibility for the gift given to me. I wish to take the responsibility for who I am, how I interact with the Creator/Creation, and how I manifest/create within the Creator/Creation. A book, even if it says it was inspired by God, is still written by men. But that which is within me, that which has been given to me, is not written by men. That is where I find the Word of God. The bible is still part of this world just the same as these bodies are. And as such, they are nothing more than tools to learn the depth of the ALL.

Please feel free to ask for any expansion of these ideas. I respect everyone's viewpoint. At the same time, I feel it's important to share and expand those viewpoints with other God pieces (aka souls). My ideas are not against the bible and/or God. They are an expansion, given the fact that I seen limitations within the interpretations of the bible and/or God, from men. I asked for the wisdom. I asked to be able to see the unseen. I wanted it with all my heart. I am now at rest. That is how I have judged myself. I no longer live in fear of anything. I am no longer controlled by e-motion. I control it now. And that is why I have judged myself to be learning in the proper direction. And if my understand can assist another then it would be selfish for me not to share. But at the same time I do not seek to change another. I only seek to give freely, that which has been given to me freely.

[edit on 7-27-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Additional thoughts:


The best lie is 99% truth.

If "Satan" is the great deceiver then would such a great deceiver appear to be overtly evil? You would not be deceived very easily if "he" did. A great deceiver would appear to be overwhelmingly good. It's that minute subtle twist that get's you. It's that 1%.

EDIT:

A kidnapper uses candy. Most sexual assults are by people that the person knew and trusted. (just two examples to add visuals to the point)

[edit on 7-27-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]

There are things in the bible (or interpretations thereof) that don't make sense to me once I cleared myself of the emotion of fear. One such thing, is the idea that we are given one life to make it or break it, so-to-speak. That doesn't make sense coming from the source of infinite creativity and love.

I was about to sign off for a bit when I saw this...

I always looked at this life as a second chance. All have sinned and fallen short.
We are all worthy of death. Thats it. God could end it right now. But He doesnt. God sent His Son to die....so you could have a chance to repent. Jesus died for your chance. How long you live is how much extra time God gave you to dwell on it.

God is a God of second chances.

In your last post you metion overt actions of satan.
He is wiser then us..and does the carrot routine very well. We call it humanism, islam, hinduism, etc....
If it was up to satan, we wouldnt know about him. He never told us. God did.

Originally posted by jake1997
I always looked at this life as a second chance.

When was the "first" chance?

All have sinned and fallen short. We are all worthy of death.

Which death do you speak of? Physical or Spiritual? Who are you to judge what " we all" are worthy of?

Thats it. God could end it right now. But He doesnt.

So you think you know the reason why? What gives you this insight?

God sent His Son to die....

Prove it without quoting a book written by men. We all die physically. No one makes it out of here alive.

so you could have a chance to repent.

How is it that you know the reasons why existence exists? How is it you know why God does what "he" does?

Jesus died for your chance. How long you live is how much extra time God gave you to dwell on it.

How do you know this? What if Jesus died because of natural causes? What if his teachings were used to control many humans for the past 2,000 years? And again, how is it you know what God thinks or the reasons God does this or that?

God is a God of second chances.

An infinite God of 2 chances huh? And this makes sense to you?

In your last post you metion overt actions of satan.
He is wiser then us..and does the carrot routine very well. We call it humanism, islam, hinduism, etc....
If it was up to satan, we wouldnt know about him. He never told us. God did.

How do you know this? How do you really know that everything written in the bible is truth? What if it was inspired by "Satan" to make you believe what you believe? What verification do you have otherwise?

I didnt feel like doing all the little quote thingys so

Every day
Both. God said so and I am a son of His
God. I can read. So can you. You could also know this
I could, but you would have to live with me and see for yourself if you dont want written word
Duh. We covered all of this already. God told me in His book, and confirmed it in my life
Because I asked God, in Jesus name, and it came to pass. Right now I am looking for a reason God would want a mountain cast into the sea so I can do it. So far the closest I can get is that I will have to wait for Revelation to start happening.

Infinite and just. If you were both loving and just, would you give any less? Satan wants you dead now after one chance.

because I prayed and God answered. God rewards those who seek Him. Most are too proud to do so. Not me. Ask and He is faithful to answer. Then, He will open your eyes.

Exercise in futility complete.

Moving on

Originally posted by jake1997

Exercise in futility complete.

Moving on

I don't consider the deceived to be a futile endevour. I will not rest till every last person has the opportunity to know the truth. But, we each have our lessons and we each have our paths. So few will make it this round. But that won't stop me from trying to break the belief bubbles that entrap the minds of humanity.

What a grand deception. "Satan" has made most believe that "he" is God. And I guess I could never hope to penetrate such a deception by mere questions.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource

What a grand deception. "Satan" has made most believe that "he" is God. And I guess I could never hope to penetrate such a deception by mere questions.

You know, a thought just occurred to me: you want Chrisitans to somehow justify our faith and yest you have given us no proof or justification for believing your "take" on the subject. All you will say is that we are all deceived; how about giving us a little proof for the contentions you make.

Originally posted by lightseeker

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource

What a grand deception. "Satan" has made most believe that "he" is God. And I guess I could never hope to penetrate such a deception by mere questions.

You know, a thought just occurred to me: you want Chrisitans to somehow justify our faith and yest you have given us no proof or justification for believing your "take" on the subject. All you will say is that we are all deceived; how about giving us a little proof for the contentions you make.

I want no such thing. My only goal is to provoke thought ouside of the belief structure (thus the questions I raised).

You know, as well as I, that I cannot prove anything anymore than you can. I can point out inconsistencies in the teachings but I already know the rebuttals. The nature of this realm is such that we can't prove the spiritual. It's designed that way on purpose.

It's probably safe to say that Christians will read my words and think I'm attempting to discredit their beliefs. That is also not the case. It doesn't matter what your belief is. What matters is who you are and what you see. Most Christians have the "who you are" down well. In other words, most are good people with good intentions that don't want to impose on others. So I'm only attempting to open the inner eyes. To ask questions. To not take things at face value just because they feel right or sound right. To take responsibility for self instead of giving it away. I don't know where any person is at individuality and I wouldn't judge them if I did know.

But what I have found is that any attempt to provoke thought beyond someone's belief structure will only cause them to cling even tighter to it. So I guess I'm actually doing more harm than good. I think that may be my lesson.

EDIT: spelling

[edit on 7-28-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
But what I have found is that any attempt to provoke thought beyond someone's belief structure will only cause them to cling even tighter to it. So I guess I'm actually doing more harm than good. I think that may be my lesson.

What I do not and can not understand is why you feel it is so important for someone to think beyond their belief structure, especially mine. Is my believing in God and Jesus Christ as Savior a threat to you somehow. I try to explain to you why I believe the way i do and give exhaustive examples of why I believe but when I do I'm jus "clinging" to my beliefs. What else would you have me do? and why is it such a problem?

We are in timing of christ and if we are not ready we will fall. To those that know, I ask to study revelations more,so that they are ready. For as more seals are broken off the scroll the harded is it to live on earth. For those who do not belive read daniel chapter 2 read the hole chapter carefully. It talks about kingdoms falling and rising The last kingdom falling is roman. Right after roman it talk about god's kingdom coming. A kingdom that will not be destryed.