Subliminal Ads Pop Up on Sci-fi Channel?

Subliminal ads, in fact, do NOT work. Yes, there's an urban legend about it working, and this is based on research where researcher James Vickary (shamefully) made up the results:

www.snopes.com...

The fact that the scientists caught on to the deception quickly didn't kill this. Vance Packard and others who didn't believe the debunking all hopped on board the Write A Book wagon, and this faked research became a household name. People still spend money trying to do this, and it still doesn't work.

Nor is it ever going to work. The brain doesn't work like that.

This doesn't keep people from trying to make a buck with it.

If it worked, there wouldn't be a need for the thousands of (expensive) marketing research studies done each year. Advertisers wouldn't care. They'd just throw out the subliminals, knowing you would buy.

But this doesn't stop people from trying. They tried it in anti-smoking campaigns directed at teens:
tc.bmjjournals.com...

...didn't work.

Originally posted by Byrd
Subliminal ads, in fact, do NOT work.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that Byrd. Contrary to my disagreement with you in my second round debate, I actually intend this.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The above link tells of a study conducted that determined the effectiviness of scary faces used as subliminals on individuals who were prone to anxiety. These findings suggest strongly that subliminals are indeed effective........with the caviat that context be observed.

Originally posted by Byrd
Nor is it ever going to work. The brain doesn't work like that.

Another disagreement. The brain does work like that. A principle called association is what makes memory and learned behaviour possible. And to take a step further, the body is proned to react to situations based on how it feels. This is why subliminals that appeal to a basic instinct can work.....the undiscerning mind doesn't or is not afforded the oppurtunity to make a conscious distinction between the stimulus and the reaction.

Not to say that subliminals are one hundred percent effective.....too many variables.....but they have worked and can work.

Originally posted by Byrd
But this doesn't stop people from trying. They tried it in anti-smoking campaigns directed at teens:
tc.bmjjournals.com...

Your link doesn't detail any attempt to study subliminals rather than an advertising campaign...or different approaches. In fact, I didn't find a single reference to subliminal in the page linked. Little help, please...

[edit on 30-7-2005 by MemoryShock]

MMmmmmmmkayyyyy.... but I'd want to see more about that study and some followups. There's been so many attempts to influence humans by subliminals, and to date there's not indication that it works.

At least for ads.

I could say subliminal messages does work, not the 25/1 fps images that are placed in tv ads or theater ads, but the ones that work are in the form of conversation mostly, you should really check Derren Brown's Trick of the Mind, and Mind Control tv series, its really fun.

mainly subliminal messages are the messages which are in forms of visual or audio, and the way they are presented leaves so little time for the brain to process it by giving it a meaning and store, they are mostly stored without the processing , as raw data. it is said that they are directly stored in subconscious in this process. so it could be a 1/24 of a second image in a continuing movie, or a world that is appearingly mis-pronounced in a continuing dialog.

in one of the shows of Derren, I think it was the Trick of he Mind, Derren meets a supermarket designer and, they have a brief conversation about the supermarkets and Derren tells the man to pick any single product he wants from the supermarket and then return here, before the man starts to travel in the supermarket derren attaches a paper to the mans back which is saying " Im off to buy vinegar" without the man noticing. the man travels the supermarket with all the cameras plus the shopping-cart camera waching him during the entire time. and he picks a bottle of vinegar and returns to Derren.

after watching the before conversation countless times I notices that Derren makes a miss-pronounciation of some type and quickly continues to the sentence and apparently corrects the sentence (yet the final outcome is not totally meaningfull).

he says something like videgar as if he is saying feeding-car (possibly refers to the shoping-cart or something), and the interesting thing is when he is making this apparent miss-pronounciation he touches to the mans arm and looks directly into his eyes and is very confident. and waits for the man to continue to dialog and after this you can seee that the mission accomplished signs from Derren and he quickly passes to the execution phase of the experiment and sends the man off.

and there is another one where he predicts the advertisement campaign which two designers will come up who are only given a stuffed bear. however in reality the subliminal messages about the predicted campaing ( logo, slogan, and even the image) were all scattered around the town which they traveled together before Derren revealed the bear and what they are expected to do.

Im very much convinced that subliminal messages , images, or sounds work after watching these rather documentary style shows, I highly recommend them.

[edit on 31-7-2005 by xu]

xu..........

Sounds like you are detailing an occasion where NLP was effectively utilized.......Neuro-Linguistic Programming is conversational hypnosis; the combination of a skilled practitioner and unwitting subject is very powerful indeed.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
xu..........

Sounds like you are detailing an occasion where NLP was effectively utilized.......Neuro-Linguistic Programming is conversational hypnosis; the combination of a skilled practitioner and unwitting subject is very powerful indeed.

That's exactly what I was thinking... that or the footage was staged. There's been a number of fraudulent studies (both negative and positive) and so I'd like to see some information on how it was designed and the numbers and so forth.

Originally posted by Byrd
That's exactly what I was thinking... that or the footage was staged. There's been a number of fraudulent studies (both negative and positive) and so I'd like to see some information on how it was designed and the numbers and so forth.

Interesting......My first thought was that the footage was staged.....

I'm working on the support for subliminals, Byrd. Will probably take a while. Many studies do not have any actual follow through or description of application. Just basic detail and my extrapolation in concert with my knowledge of neuro-chemistry fill in the blanks.....

My personal opinion, which has many avenues of logic applied to it, is that the Coca-Cola/theater experiment was true.....but more factors were implemented.......my opinion....and something I would be primarily reticent to detail....

To be a fly on the wall during executive meetings in the marketing industry.....

Sounds like you are detailing an occasion where NLP was effectively utilized.......Neuro-Linguistic Programming is conversational hypnosis; the combination of a skilled practitioner and unwitting subject is very powerful indeed.

yes you are right that is the real term for it, however I think that the basic principal behind both are the same, storing the data without really processing it directly as it is percepted, without giving it a meaning etc.

...or the footage was staged. There's been a number of fraudulent studies (both negative and positive) and so I'd like to see some information on how it was designed and the numbers and so forth.

if I were you I would think the same thing, I mean I would think that it is higly possible that it is staged. first of all in the begining of each episode Derren states that no stooges or actors are used in the making of the program. (and he states it when they use, if any and where) Secondly most of the events are taking place on the streets and the victims are apearingly randomly picked. and there are lots of other reasons which led me to think that it is really what he says it is (Im being mind controlled maybe ). he also sometimes shows his unsuccesfull attempts during the show, and he is making tours and staging live shows around europe.

the first example I picked from the show is as you say NLP, but the effect on the second one is achieved through subliminal messages for sure.

I prepared a screenshot composite to give an idea about the images and mesages they are exposed to before Derren demanded an advertisement campaign regarding a stuffed bear.

note the before and after facial expressions of the designers to see the effects of the prediction. even one of them says "this is scary really".

even the images seemed to be random images or text you see walking down the street, they not only affected the the decisions of the designers but the designers duplicated those images and text fully. so subliminal messages do work.

he makes incredible things with NLP, in one episode he cashes a losing gambling ticket as if it is the winning ticket, only by saying "this is the ticket you are looking for" to the cashier (and just before he says this he hits the wall to fully attract the cashiers attention while distracting her from other things). if you get the chance watch all these episodes, they are really eye openers.

he is a licensed hypnotist by the way, dont try those at home

[edit on 2-8-2005 by xu]