Universe...Infinitly big.....Or infinitly small?And from where came the rules?

This has come to my mind a few times. What if this "infinitly big" universe we live in, has the size of an atom(or something even smaller) in something even bigger. What if the infinitly small on this Universe is the infinitly big for something even smaller?

And by universal rules i meant gravity, energy, atriction,time,etc,etc,etc,etc.

What if theres something outside this universe that by his characteristics, cant even be called "something".

We hear, "atriction made planets seem like balls". But why does this happen? Why balls, and not squares? From where came this rules that we take as certain.

And why does this seems all mathematic?

And why does the theory about "universe has always existed" seems weird to me?

etc,etc,etc

like i have sed before in other threads

1. sphere is most simple way to hold/form energy hence why a bubble is sphere when they see orbs they are spheres

2. space is bent. u could travel on a straight path away from earth with nothing blocking or leading u astray from this path, u would end up on the other side of the earth, if it was remaining in exact same position which it doesnt. there are no bountries that u can hit but it is indeed finite. no shape can be when trying to visualize the universe because then it would have to have sumthing outside of it which it does not.

hmmm...........ok.

But you didnt asnwer me. You just came with another universal rule.

"sphere is most simple way to hold/form energy hence why a bubble is sphere when they see orbs they are spheres"

We know that. But who da hell or what created this rule?

Why a sphere? Why energy? Why not something else to strange for us to be able ti even imagine it?

My question is if there arent any other universes outthere, with diferent rules from the one we live in. No energy, No time, No gravity, No senses, No material, etc

[edit on 16-7-2005 by NinterX]

We get spheres because gravity attracts dust, gas etc from all directions at once from a central starting point. Most things spin and this helps to continue holding the spherical shape.

So at least to answer part of your question.. Gravity and Spin cause the sphere shapes we see in nature.

X

no one created it. simply it is.
such rules arent made they just come along with the universe.

like sum super being didnt say well lets program it so that time exists.
time is not sum plus to the universe....it is a must. the universe cannot go without time, it is one of its many dimensions. anything that is in this universe is a must, it came with the universe.

but what u really asked was is there anything outside this universe.

numbers is the best way to show outcomes and such. it isnt necessarily mathmatical, we choose it to be mathmatical and since one person can describe the outcome mathmatically to another person it would be most commonly used.

and finally u ask why it seems wierd to u, simply because u cant fathom it. ur brain just cant understand it.

Since it is so difficult for us to comprehend existence I have found a symbol that mite work for some of us in addition to a suggestion of how we can survive as inhabitants of whatevert we are a minute part of for as long as possable.........the symbol is " a sphere which has no center and circumference that has no limit"or simpler "a circle which center is nowhere and circumference is limitless".....survival can be prolomged by " do not do to others that which we would not want done to us" Also when we think of a creator our biggest error is to try and make the creator in our own image......that has led us as human beings into some major problems...It is better that we act as caretakers of this planet and all things on it.....this will definately help all of us to survive and maybe find out more of what we are part of out there rather than destroying ourselves with our petty egotistical concerns.

"no one created it. simply it is.
such rules arent made they just come along with the universe.

like sum super being didnt say well lets program it so that time exists.
time is not sum plus to the universe....it is a must. the universe cannot go without time, it is one of its many dimensions. anything that is in this universe is a must, it came with the universe."

THe universe cant go without time..............our universe cant go without time. We cant imagine life without time.

But maybe out there there are universes with no time nor dimensions,etc. No galaxies, no stars...........nothing that we have in this one.

"no one created it. simply it is. "

Nothing in this universe "simply it is". Everything suffered a process . I believe that the materia and energy that abled the big bang, came from somewhere.

Originally posted by NinterX
Nothing in this universe "simply it is". Everything suffered a process . I believe that the materia and energy that abled the big bang, came from somewhere.

If I could answer this I would have a big white beard and would be sitting on a cloud looking smug with myself, instead of having to be here, snapping rubber rings on a Sunday morning.

Its all about faith and belief. You cant say no one created it, because to someone with a different belief God created it, as is my belief.

I like to think the universe as a part of an atom making up something else...think about how our atoms act...anti clockwise spinning n all...
Its a good mind feck

just because this universe came with rules to it in order for it to exist does not mean sum1 put it there.

much like people interpret faith. they say sum1 made it happen and thats why they are where they are, i see it as it happened because what every1 else did around u and what u urself choose.

i can say no1 created it because that is what i believe, and u can go and say a god created it, im not saying u cant.

the only thing infinte is numbers. time is shown by numbers so time in our perspective can be infinite. space shown in numbers can be infinite. but the problem is that its not shown in numbers, numbers are just our best way we can interpret it.

in my universe theres a set amount of space but u can travel it in a straight direction infinitely.

im not sayin the matter and energy came from nowhere, im saying the rules of physics were required for this universe to be tho.

now people like to say the universe, space, is expanding. now if this is true and it is sumhow expanding then maybe this expanding caused it. a tension in space. as it stretched it became energized. so many different things could have happened that could be unexplainable, im not denying that. but whats the point of arguing over it if no1 can yet prove it. instead of arguing a point that cant be proved, find ways to prove it first.

GRim reaper, you make no sense in your last words.

In that case the number of posts in ATS would be reduced to 1/5 because.................... most of them are just "what if" threads, and other kind of supositions.

'We do not know!' is the obvious answer to the question, come back in 5, 50 or 5000 years and we might, but right now we have little idea. The best theory yet for the rules in the universe, M theory, has by its founder Ed Witten been described as 'Murky' (as an explanation of the 'M').

My personal belief, we will one day have an understanding of the nature of the universe, but I doubt we will ever be able to say with any certainty who or what its creator was.

picture the universe like a ballon. Blow air into it, it expands.


Now I bet you are picturing a big round sphere shaped object right? wrong.

well the universe is not like that at all. look at the surface, and only the surface of the ballon. That is all the universe is. There is nothing inside the ballon, the universe is only the rubbery bit of plastic curved around itself, and we are a little dot on it. Thats why its hard to imagine what the universe expanded from.. because there is nothing inside it blowing it up, or what it looks like, the balon is only a very simplified analogy. the surface area is expanding all by itself, and it is infinite in size. There is no centre, although any point could be though of as the centre. And space is only expanding where matter is not as densely present, ie between clusters of galaxies. We are getting further apart faster and faster (i just talked about hubbles constant in the other thread ) so the ballon is expanding, growing bigger.

But remember the key concept- the universe is only the surface area of the ballon and nothing else. Not the air inside it, not the air outside it. they don't exist. So you could never see it from the outside, or learn its true shape from an observer's point of view.

now these are fun and great topics for discussion, but learning the theory behind all of these principles makes it more rewarding when one day you can truly understand them yourself. so before you post anything, think about it first, and google for an answer. After all, here are just a bunch of peoples opinions, learn the facts and truths for yourself. or better yet get an education in physics

edit: i only say it because these questions crop up a lot, and there's a lot of blatant misconceptions, wheres that resident physics wiz to answer them all?


[edit on 18/7/05 by painkiller]

Painkiller, we know so few about universe that we can say that your theory is among the best philosophers and scientists theorys.

Actually we know so few about universe that even an irracional animal knows almost as much as us................nothing, in other words.

I was going to say "who are you to take such an afirmation as certain". Then i realize by myself that even if you said " im enstein", your theory would be pretty much insignificant.

But the diference between painkiller insignificance and enstein insignificance is so small, relativly to the magnitude of the unknown universe, that we can say things like:

"Painkiller, we know so few about universe that we can say that your theory is among the best philosophers and scientists theorys"