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NEWS: USAF Brass Orders UK-Based Troops to Stay Out of London
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Hrm, am I the only one that finds it wierd that they are ordered to stay outside the M25? Not just "stay out of london" or whatnot?
Whats the diameter of the M25 around london? About 40km?
You guys know what the blast radius of 20 MT nukes are?
Whats the diameter of the M25 around london? About 40km?
You guys know what the blast radius of 20 MT nukes are?
Originally posted by subz
Am I the only Englishman that doesnt see this order as a problem? Seriously, does it really matter that American service men were ordered not to go within the M25 due to these bombings?
Yes it does, such an order completely undermines the efforts being put into showing the terrorsits that they will not change our way of of life, you have(maybe one) US commander contradicting the message with one well intentioned but ill thought out order. Attention is drawn to something that should not have been an issu in the first place. Also, why 'within the M25' ? That was ridiculous overkill when 'advice to keep clear of the tube' might have been more relevant.
Does them putting their lives at risk, while off duty, really show a sign of solidarity? Or just a lack of rationality? Do you really think American service men would WANT to go into London right about now?
Putting their lives at risk? In what way are they more at risk than any civilian in the UK right now? In fact their training and expertise would make them more likely than joe bloggs to spot a potential danger would it not?
As for the question of whether they would want to, thats their choice. Which is kind of the whole point.
Was there some kind of bandwagon that rolled through ALL British cities so we could all go down to London to show "our solidarity" as well? Did I miss that one? Am I not showing my solidarity because im safely up north and about 200 miles from London?
No, but no-one is advocating US troops being ordered to spend their free time in London are they?
There was, however, a huge effort to show life was 'business as usual' with people able to go to, from and around London as they wished. Don't you see?
Londoners do not need to be told to put on a brave face, and certainly don't need a pat on the back from Blair for doing something they are inclined
to do anyway, as he well knows.
To most it is just an inconvenience that they have to take an alternative route.
3 million people use the Underground everyday, 70 people, which includes those who are missing which we can assume perished, have died due to the bombings last week, do the math.
The odds are stacked, hugely, against you being a casualty, 42,857 to 1, to be more precise, and thats only on "Open Terrorist Day"
Personally, I didn't bother coming to work on Friday, not through fear, just because I couldn't be arsed to walk due to station closures and reduced services.
Had I not changed my journey a few months ago, chances are I would have been in KX station at the time of the explosion, which still doesn't make me a casualty. I have had close calls on two other occasions regarding IRA bombs aswell.
There far more likely ways to die in a major city than by being caught by a terrorist bomb.
Whats the point in worrying?
To most it is just an inconvenience that they have to take an alternative route.
3 million people use the Underground everyday, 70 people, which includes those who are missing which we can assume perished, have died due to the bombings last week, do the math.
The odds are stacked, hugely, against you being a casualty, 42,857 to 1, to be more precise, and thats only on "Open Terrorist Day"
Personally, I didn't bother coming to work on Friday, not through fear, just because I couldn't be arsed to walk due to station closures and reduced services.
Had I not changed my journey a few months ago, chances are I would have been in KX station at the time of the explosion, which still doesn't make me a casualty. I have had close calls on two other occasions regarding IRA bombs aswell.
There far more likely ways to die in a major city than by being caught by a terrorist bomb.
Whats the point in worrying?
Someone has just emailed Sky News saying that UK troops were given the same order following the bombings. Not sure if this is ALL the troops but it
sounds like it was a general thing that some people have taken it upon themselves to attack the US over. Shame really.
CX
CX
I spent a lot of time in US military bases in the UK, and I can say that the people on those bases live generally very detached from the "outside"
host nation. I think the order was ill-considered, it should have been limited to a revocation of liberty rather than a blanket ban. It should also
have been rescinded as soon as they realized that it could be construed as a slap in the face and utter failure to show solidarity for their biggest
ally. That said, I think that the order was probably a standing order for all troops in all bases worldwide- US military policy is made uniform
wherever possible. Most likely the warnings were linked to State Department civilian advisories regardless of host nation sensitivities or
realities.
In short, I think it's highly unfortunate and the British have every right to feel insulted, but it's probably due to general bureaucracy rather than a deliberate attempt to piss them off. As some other threads have shown, most Americans in the private sector have not changed their plans to remain in or visit London, and I think all Americans are standing with our British friends in heart if not in person because ordered to stay away.
-koji K.
In short, I think it's highly unfortunate and the British have every right to feel insulted, but it's probably due to general bureaucracy rather than a deliberate attempt to piss them off. As some other threads have shown, most Americans in the private sector have not changed their plans to remain in or visit London, and I think all Americans are standing with our British friends in heart if not in person because ordered to stay away.
-koji K.
that some people have taken it upon themselves to attack the US over. Shame really.
I don't know if I was included in the remit of that comment or not but at this point I feel I should point out that I, for one, am certainly not attacking 'America'.
I have been at pains to point out in more than one post that I blame the idiot who made the order and I even said that I thought that GW would be angry and embarrassed after his 'standing together' speech that this order appears to contradict him. It is unfortunate that people seem to take criticism of something 'American' as an attack upon America itself but maybe that is how the Bush Govt likes it.
Originally posted by John bull 1
I assume like many Britons this morning I can't help feeling a little bit disappointed and let down.
What message does this send to the terrorists, the people of London, and foreign tourists especially from the U.S ?
news.bbc.co.uk...
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
It is all over already they recinded the order no big deal here at all
From your link John
The US military has rescinded an order to its personnel to avoid London in the aftermath of the bombings.
I am sure it was nothing more then a temporary restriction.
This is not a big deal really, look at the big picture for a moment.
UK intelligence is tracking down possible safe houses and possible terrorists involved in the bombings. And put forth a plan of action to go take the safe houses.
In the event that they have not identified all of the "threats" and begin moving in, this could signal those cell members who are not going to be intercepted to possibly take action against the nearest US/UK Forces.
Since the UK intelligence bureu advised the US miliary in advance that they were going to proceed with "secure" certain sites. It was advised that US military personal remain at low visiability for the immediate future until all "threats" could be neutralized.
I dont see this any other way then an attempt to reduce the number of possible targets that the terrorists could lash out against.
UK intelligence is tracking down possible safe houses and possible terrorists involved in the bombings. And put forth a plan of action to go take the safe houses.
In the event that they have not identified all of the "threats" and begin moving in, this could signal those cell members who are not going to be intercepted to possibly take action against the nearest US/UK Forces.
Since the UK intelligence bureu advised the US miliary in advance that they were going to proceed with "secure" certain sites. It was advised that US military personal remain at low visiability for the immediate future until all "threats" could be neutralized.
I dont see this any other way then an attempt to reduce the number of possible targets that the terrorists could lash out against.
I'm sorry about some of my earlier comments, I think the whole thing was bad timing and some of our media this morning really played on it quite
hard, and I'm always grumpy in the morning at the best of times.
After careful thought, I can fully understand the orders, bearing in mind the timing and the fact that our own civilians (and army? - what was that about army personnel being spotted Thursday morning?) were told to avoid the area. We must not forget that the American military cannot actually do anything to help in the situation unless ordered to I guess I can understand the looking after of one's assets and now the orders have been cancelled it seems pretty fair.
With reference to my previous comment, I never did take the flag down by the way and never intended to.
After careful thought, I can fully understand the orders, bearing in mind the timing and the fact that our own civilians (and army? - what was that about army personnel being spotted Thursday morning?) were told to avoid the area. We must not forget that the American military cannot actually do anything to help in the situation unless ordered to I guess I can understand the looking after of one's assets and now the orders have been cancelled it seems pretty fair.
With reference to my previous comment, I never did take the flag down by the way and never intended to.
Please forgive me, but some of you are being extremely silly about this.
I'm a reserve soldier, and have spent some time on active duty. When I was stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton Oklahoma, there were places in town that we were ordered not to go to, because it was either unsafe, or soldiers had a reputation of misbehaving in those areas. That's because when we're in a garrison environment, it's kind of like being a kid, and your "parents" tell you where you can go, and what time you have to be home. It's actually not that bad...because they do it to take care of you, and keep you out of trouble.
This incident of all these Air Force soldiers being ordered to stay out of London is addressing the above concerns that I just mentioned. They're not LEAVING Europe! Those Airmen just can't go party in London right now! Christ! What's so hard to understand about that?? I'm sure that there is a volunteer list being passed around on that base, to see who wants to go HELP with the cleanup as we speak. But they can't go to London on Friday night to PARTY! That's all they're talking about.
I hope this will cause some of you Brits to chill out, and relax about this whole thing...bloody hell!
I'm a reserve soldier, and have spent some time on active duty. When I was stationed at Ft. Sill in Lawton Oklahoma, there were places in town that we were ordered not to go to, because it was either unsafe, or soldiers had a reputation of misbehaving in those areas. That's because when we're in a garrison environment, it's kind of like being a kid, and your "parents" tell you where you can go, and what time you have to be home. It's actually not that bad...because they do it to take care of you, and keep you out of trouble.
This incident of all these Air Force soldiers being ordered to stay out of London is addressing the above concerns that I just mentioned. They're not LEAVING Europe! Those Airmen just can't go party in London right now! Christ! What's so hard to understand about that?? I'm sure that there is a volunteer list being passed around on that base, to see who wants to go HELP with the cleanup as we speak. But they can't go to London on Friday night to PARTY! That's all they're talking about.
I hope this will cause some of you Brits to chill out, and relax about this whole thing...bloody hell!
This is what I posted on the otehr thread about the same topic:
This is because the DOD conducts it's own simplified investigation overseas whenever something such as the London Bombings or an attack occurs. It's just an extra saftey precaution to determine if it's safe are not.
Pretty much they find out if it was Americans or servicemembers that were the primary targets. It is usually done by Army CID, Airfirce OSI or Navy NCIS. Even if the Feds do an investigation the Military will sometimes do their own. Thier findings and rules made based on the investigation will effect all DOD persons in that area...in this case it was that base or whatever. This would not effect like Servicemembers assigned to the State Department or something like that because they fall under the DOS and not DOD when it comes to curfews and travel restrictions.
There are a number of reasons why that could happen....that's just one possibility.
sporty
This is because the DOD conducts it's own simplified investigation overseas whenever something such as the London Bombings or an attack occurs. It's just an extra saftey precaution to determine if it's safe are not.
Pretty much they find out if it was Americans or servicemembers that were the primary targets. It is usually done by Army CID, Airfirce OSI or Navy NCIS. Even if the Feds do an investigation the Military will sometimes do their own. Thier findings and rules made based on the investigation will effect all DOD persons in that area...in this case it was that base or whatever. This would not effect like Servicemembers assigned to the State Department or something like that because they fall under the DOS and not DOD when it comes to curfews and travel restrictions.
There are a number of reasons why that could happen....that's just one possibility.
sporty
Its standard SOP for base commanders to restrict personnel from leaving after such an event. This happens all over the world every day, yet it gets
no play. I remember being in Bahrain and not being allowed to leave the base for several months because of threats against US personnel.
And if the base commander here did not make that call, and something happened to someone, there would be hell to pay. This is why generals wear stars, because they know the big picture.
And if the base commander here did not make that call, and something happened to someone, there would be hell to pay. This is why generals wear stars, because they know the big picture.
I was active duty when the US was considering operations in Bosnia and was stationed in Alaska. There was more than one occasion where we were told
to stay on base and leave revoked, etc. It is a precaution, nothing more.
To those saying it's all a US conspiracy, let me tell you this. Imagine if US servicemen were killed in the London Tragedy. That would have mobilized the vast right wing propaganda more than anything else.
We (American's) love the British on the whole. Hell, the only reason we as a nation are as tough as we are is because we learned from the best - YOU!
To those saying it's all a US conspiracy, let me tell you this. Imagine if US servicemen were killed in the London Tragedy. That would have mobilized the vast right wing propaganda more than anything else.
We (American's) love the British on the whole. Hell, the only reason we as a nation are as tough as we are is because we learned from the best - YOU!
Yeah, we fought you Brits at least twice. Your War of 1812 action of actually burning the White House down is quite an accomplishment. ( I dare say
that might have been considered terrorism then) Then again, the British made a habit of burning everything in thier wake..........
Originally posted by WissNX01
Yeah, we fought you Brits at least twice. Your War of 1812 action of actually burning the White House down is quite an accomplishment. ( I dare say that might have been considered terrorism then) Then again, the British made a habit of burning everything in thier wake..........
We didnt burn the marine corps baracks, a mark of respect from marine to marine....
[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]
We didnt burn the marine corps baracks, a mark of respect from marine to marine....
Ah yes...good point there DW The Brits did not Burn the Marine Barracks or the Commandants House which is located at 8th and I street downtown DC.....that is why the Unit is called 8th and I as most people know it as.
Yeah, I remember the DIs being real proud when they taught that.