Lets vote out the republicans in 06!

That might very well be the perspective of Liberals, I don't know - but I do fear you've fallen to the over simplification that is rampant amongst Republicans, and those who think they want to be rich like them: speaking as a Progressive & a Capitalist ( money loving Capitalist as my niece refers to me), it's not about "doing for" people what they need to do for themselves, it's removing the entitlements for those who grew up at the top of the system and the barriers for those who grew up at the bottom of the system. An Equal Opportunity playing field.
It's naive to think that everyone starts out the same or don't encounter obstacles because of their educational opportunites.

I mostly agree with your rant on the minimum wage, but I wasn't talking about it - I was talking about tradesman & white collar non-mgmt wages. United Auto Workers, Office Managers, Technicians, as examples.That welfare mom now millionaire - did she get banks lining up to give her loans to start her business ( like a certain Kennebunkport Scion with no business plan, idea or vision), or did she have a full cavity search performed on her pristine business plan having it denied by lender after lender?
Where you start = the effort required
We can't nor should legislate mandatory opportunites, but we should legislate enabling.

Bout Time,

Opportunities... I've told this story before, Bout Time, so this'll just be a shortened down version. My uncle and father grew up dirt-poor. Really, they slept in a garage with their other brothers for a little while. They were about as poor as it gets in America. My uncle decided he didn't want to live like that, and worked really hard. He mowed lawns, read magazines that give you tips and what-not, and eventually started up his own land-scaping business. Well he then realized there was money in repairing these items, and started up a different business. He built up this business, using me dad and other employees, and wound up selling it not too long ago for 20 million dollars. My family's not doing so bad either, compared to what my dad was living in as a kid. It's really possible for anyone, who's working hard enough, to work their way to the top.

I'm an advocate of removing the barriers for everyone to do it, not just those of us with extraordinary circumstances ( both parents, 5 jobs for 2 people so that 7 kids could go to private school.....in the South Bronx).
I can quote my story as a shining example of how it's possible to go from rags to riches, but experience has shown that it's an anomaly to the way the system is configured.
Having an IT background & owning an IT services company, I can tell you that you don't calibrate a system's success by the anomaly, but by the repeat performance. The nadir that is our public school spending, social programs and militarism is a broken system.
Social responsibility & Wealth do go together

Bout Time: Of course, the current administration and party are running up the tab like crazy. Generally they are a bit slower though.

It could be considered a temp. solution because of the wars going on right now, but I tend not to really believe that. When push comes to shove, this nation will go down no matter who we vote in or out.

Let's look at the traits:

Social Security:
Dems- Keep it
Reps- Most likely keep it, at least most of it due to lack of balls

Welfare:
Both keep it

Medicare and Medicaid:
Both keep it

Taxes:
Both generally keep them pretty high and most likely will

Borders:
Both ignore it

Aid:
Both just want to keep pumping it out.

Look, there really is only a few solutions to the problem, and none of them are nice or democratic unless the American people suddenly gain a backbone, a brain, and an attention span.

Originally posted by Bout Time
That might very well be the perspective of Liberals, I don't know - but I do fear you've fallen to the over simplification that is rampant amongst Republicans, and those who think they want to be rich like them:

I'm falling into the oversimplication of republican ideology? I'm not quite sure what your talking or what part of my post you are refering to.

Whatever happened sensing, thinking, percieving? I'm here, I know what they do, I see it, I hear them talk, I hear their point by point agenda, their hopes and goals, I don't need to fall into anything, because I have a brain, that works for me, I don't need to listen and regurgitate what some republican says.

speaking as a Progressive & a Capitalist ( money loving Capitalist as my niece refers to me), it's not about "doing for" people what they need to do for themselves, it's removing the entitlements for those who grew up at the top of the system and the barriers for those who grew up at the bottom of the system. An Equal Opportunity playing field.

I agree with removing some of the entitlements for thsoe who grew up at the top, but i'm not sure what barriers there are for those who grew up at the bottom. There is opportunity everywhere for these people, they don't have barriers in front of them, whatever happened if you have the drive you go for it. I didn't know those people who made it to the top from the bottom had to go through any kind of barrier. Sure there's obstacles everywhere, something always happens, nothing runs smoothly but i'm not sure what your talking about exactly when it comes to barriers. there's a handful of people I know that started out at the bottom and are millionaires now, i don't recall them saying the system is unfair and they had to hop over the same hurdles...

It's naive to think that everyone starts out the same or don't encounter obstacles because of their educational opportunites.

I never said everyone starts out the same...Even if you are educated doesn't mean you'll be rich... The main reason why people get an education (higher education) is to get a job, a 40/wk job. to me, they aren't out to get rich they just want a high paying job. i'm talking about self educating. i don't want to get into the subject but people if they want it bad enough they know where to look, and they know how to go about it. thats all im saying.

That welfare mom now millionaire - did she get banks lining up to give her loans to start her business ( like a certain Kennebunkport Scion with no business plan, idea or vision), or did she have a full cavity search performed on her pristine business plan having it denied by lender after lender?

she had a business plan made up because she had an idea, she went to a publisher... shopped around, and found one.

oops double post!

[edit on 22-7-2005 by TrueLies]