Date and Source of the ATLANTIS Story ?

The Story of Atlantis - Was it first thought up

1) by Plato in 360 BC
2) by Solon in 640 BC
3) by an Egyptian priest at some unknown time prior to 640 BC
4) other ?

What is the group's general opinion of the 'date' of the first telling of the Atlantis story ?
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I ask this because there are at least two proposed dates (360 or 640 BC).
I want to confirm the date that the "source" of the Atlantis story made someone (Egyptian priest, Solon, or Plato) tell of his encounter with this physical source. He saw "something" which provided the stimulation for the Atlantis story to be written.

Let me put this into perspective.
The biblical Daniel stories. He had an encounter with the angel Gabriel in circa 600BC in Babylon. He wrote of his encounter, providing detailed descriptions and accounts. What the angel Gabriel showed and told him was the SOURCE and the stimulation for him to write his stories. The same with Mohammed in circa 600AD. He was shown the same SOURCE material.

Almost the same with John of Revelations except that he does not name the angel. He also was shown the same SOURCE material.

The Daniel and Ezekiel stories from the Bible contain similar "city" descriptions to those provided by the Plato dialogues.

I am trying to determine the exact 'date' that this SOURCE material was shown to 'whoever, where ever' in relation to the Greek Atlantis story.
You probably already know that the Atlantis story is very similar to other ancient "city" and "sea" stories from around the ancient Middle East. (In the Greek tale 'Ulysses and the Bag of Winds', a floating island is mentioned, and in a Sumerian composition tales about the mysterious Babylonian ancient city of Akkade are told.)

They all seem to tie in with the same SOURCE material.
I am researching this assertion.

The story of Atlantis exists, just as the ancient Babylonian, Hebrew, and Christian Stories exist in time, in the form of written texts that were taken from Oral Stories. But the actual source of many of those stories, until recently, has not been actually known.

Was the story about Moses and the Exodus a real story that existed in the time of circa 1230 BC ?
Or was it a compilation of stories and themes already known in the ancient times*.

Were the Jesus stories based upon a real person's activities between 4BC and 30AD ?
Or were they a compilation of themes and accounts from a different time and source*.

Were the stories told by Mohammed in circa 600AD real accounts of events of that time ?
Or were they a compilation of earlier ideas and themes combined with known stories*.

* to fit in with new political, social, and religious ways of thinking.

Is the story of Atlantis (including the 'City beneath the Sea') based upon an actual ancient now physically submerged city ?
Or is it based upon the same SOURCE as these other stories ?

It has been found by an Australian researcher that all these stories originate from the same source.

BUT whether it was an Egyptian priest, Solon, or Plato who wrote the first account, something that provided all the descriptions was seen by that person.
The Australian researcher has found that "something" - the SOURCE from which the described imagery was derived.

I completed my own study in April 2005 and have written a report of my findings. You can find it at www.pphcstudygroup.org.au...

At first Mr Pegg's claims seem over-the-top. But when the presented evidence is viewed and examined word-by-word, it is all there as he declares (and more).

My personal opinion is that it was Plato who first came up with the Atlantis story. From what I've read, the Egyptian priest theory has been debunked. I've never seen Solon mentioned in conjunction with Atlantis, but I'm not that well read on the subject.

I'm definitely going to check out that website you linked to in the near future. Thanks a lot for it

Originally posted by Eddy_P
The Story of Atlantis - Was it first thought up

1) by Plato in 360 BC
2) by Solon in 640 BC
3) by an Egyptian priest at some unknown time prior to 640 BC
4) other ?

Plato.

Remember, that Greeks had been writing for a very long time by then (and Egyptians even longer) and that if there were documents and references, they would show up elsewhere (Troy, for example, shows up in a lot of documents and legends.)

There's no older myth of Atlantis or older reference.

I ask this because there are at least two proposed dates (360 or 640 BC).
I want to confirm the date that the "source" of the Atlantis story made someone (Egyptian priest, Solon, or Plato) tell of his encounter with this physical source. He saw "something" which provided the stimulation for the Atlantis story to be written.

He didn't. He's making up stories, just as George Lucas made up the Star Wars universe. Plato needed an example and rather than get himself into a LOT of trouble with the local government, he invented a place so nobody could make accusations about his attempting plots against a ruler.

It has been found by an Australian researcher that all these stories originate from the same source.

Link? My hobby is folklore, and I have some knowledge of linguistics.

I should also note, re the commentary on the website that you linked to, that translations vary wildly. Making conclusions based on English that someone else translated is not a good idea. You need to look at the original language and in the case of folklore, you need to look at sources that reproduce the language as closely as possible.

In other words, you don't know how much liberty the translator's taken with the text to make it understandable. I saw some very notable misinterpretations of the original Greek there.

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Eddy_P
The Story of Atlantis - Was it first thought up

1) by Plato in 360 BC
2) by Solon in 640 BC
3) by an Egyptian priest at some unknown time prior to 640 BC
4) other ?

What is the group's general opinion of the 'date' of the first telling of the Atlantis story ?
.
.
I ask this because there are at least two proposed dates (360 or 640 BC).
I want to confirm the date that the "source" of the Atlantis story made someone (Egyptian priest, Solon, or Plato) tell of his encounter with this physical source. He saw "something" which provided the stimulation for the Atlantis story to be written.

It has been found by an Australian researcher that all these stories originate from the same source.

BUT whether it was an Egyptian priest, Solon, or Plato who wrote the first account, something that provided all the descriptions was seen by that person.

I had to copy and paste this here from one of my posts in another thread because I don't know how to provide a link to a particular post and didn't want to make you read through the whole thread to see my argument.

There never was anyplace called "Atlantis"

The entire idea of Atlantis was born in Plato's mind, and this is pretty obvious to anyone that has read his Dialogues.

In Plato's Republic, the following two passages can be found:

In this education, you would include stories, would you not?… These are of two kinds, true stories and fiction. Our education must use both and start with fiction. . . . And the first step, as you know, is always what matters most, particularly when we are dealing with those who are young and tender. That is the time when they are easily moulded and when any impression we choose to make leaves a permanent mark...

and

...Now I wonder if we could contrive one of those convenient stories we were talking about a few minutes ago," I asked. "Some magnificent myth that would in itself carry conviction to our whole community, including, if possible the Guardians themselves. . . . Nothing new-a fairy story like those the poets tell and have persuaded people to believe about the sort of thing that often happened 'once upon a time,' but never does now and is not likely to: indeed it would need a lot of persuasion to get people to believe it"

This shows that Plato was not above making up stories and pretending they are true, as long as some moral or other training purpose was being addressed by the "tall tale."
Now, from Plato's Critias, we have the following intro to Critias' story about Atlantis:

I will tell an old-world story which I heard from an aged man; for Critias, at the time of telling it, was as he said, nearly ninety years of age, and I was about ten. Now the day was that day of the Apaturia which is called the Registration of Youth, at which, according to custom, our parents gave prizes for recitations, and the poems of several poets were recited by us boys, and many of us sang the poems of Solon, which at that time had not gone out of fashion.

The "aged man" Critias here is Critias the Elder, the grandfather of the Critias that tells the tale. The important part of this passage is the line about the "day of Apaturia." This is a festival where poetry recitals and various other activities are performed by children for the adults. On the last day of Apaturia, babies, young men, and newly married wives were enrolled into their phratriai-"brotherhoods" of related families.

Considering the fact that Plato chooses the setting of a festival where young people are initiated and otherwise focused upon for the time when Critias first heard the story, and that Plato has told us of his strong belief in the use of the "magnificent myth" as a teaching tool to be used to enighten young people, what can we infer about the nature of the tale Critias heard at this festival?

Originally posted by Eddy_PThe Australian researcher has found that "something" - the SOURCE from which the described imagery was derived.

I completed my own study in April 2005 and have written a report of my findings. You can find it at www.pphcstudygroup.org.au...

At first Mr Pegg's claims seem over-the-top. But when the presented evidence is viewed and examined word-by-word, it is all there as he declares (and more).

If this is the guy that claims the Source (as you put it) for the Atlantis story is a time traveler that brought a mediterreanean tourism travelogue into the past on CD-ROM, then I'd say that over the top is a vast understatement. The CD-ROM argument ignores most of the details Plato provided.

Harte

Atlantis was searched at so many places: On the volcano island of Thera/Santorini, next to Gibraltar in Spain, in Homer's Troy, etc. - but why not looking there, where Plato himself has been?!

Such as the city of Syracuse, a city on an island ... in the west ...

Plato visited Syracuse three times, in order to realize his political ideas there (not in Athens!). Is it possible that certain aspects of the Atlantis account reflect Plato's experiences in Syracuse? Concerning geography, construction works and political circumstances?

This ideas was thoroughly analyzed by Gunnar Rudberg, but his analysis did not reach public awareness, because it was published in Swedish, only. Now, Rudberg's scientific analysis is translated for the first time, and everybody can read it.

Gunnar Rudberg: Atlantis and Syracuse - Did Plato's experiences in Sicily inspire the legend?

Other books on the same topic (but not always discussing the Atlantis theme):
- Mary Renault: The Mask of Apollo.
- Ludwig Marcuse: Plato and Dionysius: A double biography
- Rodney Castleden: Atlantis destroyed
- Phyllis Young Forsyth: Atlantis, The Making of Myth