I've changed my opinion regarding the War in Iraq

Originally posted by Mike at ATS
Ahh England. I just returned from a semester of college in London actually. England is just a more expensive version of canada... Cold, surrounded by water, people talk goofy, and people live there but they dont know why...Glad to be back home!

Congratulations! You have turned a thread titled "I've changed my opinion regarding the War in Iraq" into a discussion of England. Can we stick to the topic, and stop with the name calling please?



[edit on 6-7-2005 by dbates]

Why is democracy such a good thing to have in Iraq and Iran? As these countries begin electing their leaders in a western manner, it would be hoped that tribalism be constrained, bringing warring factions to the courts to put an end to honour killings and revenge.

That and a cuppla micky dees to get capitalism rolling, etc.

The important fact in the beginnings of this thread is the geographical location of both Iran and Iraq. It would have the effect of splitting the Middle East into three parts...Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Sudan etc on one end and the multiple 'Stans' at the other end. In the middle, seperating them completely, are Coalition forced democracies.

Now, if something were to happen to inflame the Arab world against Isreal or even the U.S. of A. there would be a serious logistics problem for them to react in a concerted manner. I doubt the camel trains would be able to escape the many 'eyes in the sky'.

I might be way off base with this...and I probably am...but when it comes to conflict, I know that, like real estate, location is everything.

Whadaya think?

How can somebody begin to agree with a war that was started with lies? It makes the deaths and maiming of civilians in the conflict that much more tragic. Out of all the thousands of Iraqis that have paid with their lives, how many Osama Bin Ladens or Al Zaqwaris have paid with theirs? How can taking over a country and killing and maiming thousands of its occupants over lies be justified for that? It boggles my mind.

Not only that but exactly who is going to respect the United States of America for turning another country into a bullseye? The people that live there? I'm sure they appreciate the fact that their country is now one of extreme violence and ruin in the name of "fighting terror". That will never, ever be a legitimate reason for starting an invasion/occupation scenario and everybody knows that.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Frith]

For you, X-files Fan..

In the early nineties Bridas, an Argentinian company,discovered in Azerbayjan, Uzbekistan, Turkmanistan and Kazakstan huge deposits of oil and gas, possibly the most important desposits for the 21st century.
They calculated that Turkmanistan will be in a position to export 5 million barrels a day, putting it in the worlds top producers.

Up until 1998 the UNOCAL group fought against Bridas to secure a contract with the talibans, but a contract for what?

Afghanistan will be the country where the pipeplines cross from the above countries, from the Caspian sea and then to Pakistan and from there to the Indian ocean.

In the begining the talibans were backed by the US, even after continual accusations of human rights abuses.
Robin .L.Raphel, delegate for the government, south east asia, said of the taliban, "there original", and " we have nothing to object to about them" said Glyn Davis spokesman for the south east asia office.
Unocal is a consortium of the worlds leaders in pertrolium production, with DELTA OIL, as one of the key players.
Strangley, in 1998 the owner of DELTA OIL was charged with connections to AL QAEDA, by the north american police.
His name is KHALID BIN MAFHOUZ, multi millionaire and brother in law of OSAMA BIN LADEN.
This was annouced publicy by the president of BRIDAS, after 9/11.
He assured the world "They wont let the FBI investigate about AL QAEDA, so they wont find out that between the big oil companys in the USA, the REPUBLICANS, and high ranking business men of Texas there is a long love story".

With the international pressure mounting, and decisiones going in favor of BRIDAS, UNOCAL made a speech to the congress of the US in Febuary 1998, urging the US to act "in the search of a stable government in Afghanistan that will allow the project of CENTAS and UNOCAL to be completed" i.e. the laying of the pipelines.

From then on the attitude of the US towards the talibans changed drastically.
They accused their friend Bin Laden of the attacks on the US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.
It was only then that Bin Laden became the FBI´s number one terrorist.
Then with the invasion came the defeat of the talibans whom the US had formerly helped and aided.
After the invasion the new president was HAMID kARZAI, who in the mid nineties became a major executive of the UNOCAL company, coincidence?
Weeks later the US name their embasador in Kabul, ZALMAY KHALILZAD, businessman, who was contracted before to establish contact with the talibans by UNOCAL, coincidence?
One year later Henry Kissinger was named as the man responsable to head the investigation into the failings of security in the aftermath of 9/11.
Days later, he resigned ? why ?
Because his business interests were in conflict with the job !!
In 1994 Kissinger had worked as an international representative of UNOCAL, coincidence ?

Kissinger was replaced by Thomas Kean. Kean, however, is the ex president of DELTA-HESS OIL, part of the CENTGAS consortium, which now belongs to Saudi based DELTA OIL who owner is BIN MAFHOUZ, partner of GEORGE BUSH Jnr since the 70´s and brother in law of BIN LADEN.

On the 22nd December 2002 Hamid Karzai and the presidents of Turkmanistan and Pakistan signed an agreement to open the route for the oil pipes between the two countries, all of which pass through AFHGHANISTAN. COINCIDENCE???

Now, X-FILES FAN, tell me that the war in Afghanistan was only about kicking out the nasty old kalashnikov lovin talibans..

Great post andy...

It might be interesting to add that since the invasion of Afghanistan
we (the U.S.) have established military bases in a chain that closely
matches the originally proposed pipline route..

Just another coincidense??

I read that in a book about 9/11 that also included a map.
I was not able to find a quality link to verify it on the net, sorry.

I believe the accurate quote is The only thing necessary for evil to triumph. is for good men to do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke, an AMERICAN revolutionist. And that is the role our Government has taken, the role of good men. I don't care how naive that sounds, that's my humble opinion

First of all, i would like to say hi to everyone on the board. I have been reading on here for quite some time, and have decided to post a little bit. You can call me Arnold Skinny. Ok now to my post.

Mike, you seriously cannot condone the war in Iraq. I know your just joking right. There is no doubt in my mind at all that Suddam needed to be taken out of power. The guy was a raging bull on 47 hits of acid. I totally agree with that. and im sure almost everyone on here would agree with that. But what the big stink is, is how Bush and his lynch mob decided to do it. And that tells me it just wasnt about getting suddam out of power and suppressing and hopefully destroying any wmd's the iraqi regime supposedly possesed. It tells me that they wanted something more from the land of Iraq than just Suddam in custody. I am proud to be an american no doubt about it. But it is not because of this bull# ass so called gov. we have. It is because that is where i come from, this is where i was born. This is my life as i know it. There is so much crooked and deceitfull things going on with our gov, its almost hard to fathom that anyone person or a group of people could actually commit these crimes that go unpunished. My friend, i will tell you i am only 27 years old, but i have seen enough and read enough to know that all of these crooked politicians are not above god. That is for damn sure. And they will get whats coming to them in the future no doubt about. And you know what really sux about all of that. Its the fact that we the people of the united states will and are paying for all of their(bush's mob) bull#. Tell me this, if the U.S. really wanted Suddam out of power, couldnt they just have sent in a team of snipers to one shot-one kill him. I mean come on. The US has so much intelligence right. Then why if so much intelligence couldnt they just figure out where he was going to be on a certain day and just pluck his ass from a 1000 yards. Why did they have to invade to get him. It is because they didnt want to just invade. They wanted to invade then control. It would not suprise me one bit if the U.S. sets up a permanent base in the Iraqi oil fields. Because that is what it all boils down to. OIL!. Oil =power. Whoever controls the most oil has the most power. Period. It is the most sought after resource that i can think of. Well besides your obvious ones of food, water and air. Fuel. You have to have it. Mike this site has presented you with irefutable evidence of obvious gov. coverups. and not just 2 or 3, we are talking hundreds of gov. coverups. and we the american people give aid to these crooked jerkoffs everyday. with every tax dollar that we shell out. so they can carry on more and more immoral acts of bull#. The american gov. is a bunch of bullies and it is that simple. They want what they want, and they will do whatever to get it. The gov is kinda like that kid in elementary that stole your sandwich everyday. It happens for a while until one day, someone(or a group of someones)puts him into his place. I personally dont beleive in religion. Now what i am saying is i dont believe in any one individual religion. I believe in God/Jesus, no doubt about it. I dont believe god will damn me for being an alcoholic or a dope smoker. As long as you are a moraly correct person, that is all that matters. We are all one, we are all brothers and sisters trying to play and survive in one big asss playground that we call earth. but yet some just want to continue taking things that are not theirs. Such as oil. If the US gov wasnt so hell bent on being the top nation and the most powerfull nation. We the american people wouldnt have to worry about all of these so called terrorists(I call them military personel. just because they dont have uniforms and drive in tanks and humvees doesnt mean they arnt military. they formed their own little militaries and fight the only way they can. with sneak attacks and such. dont you think if they had the firepower we did, they would come out and use it. i would imagine so.) attacks. Mike you want to talk about 3,000 of our american soldiers dying. I to feel that is totally horrible and send out a prayer for all of them and their family and friends as they will be missed greatly. But what about the 100,000+ innocent iraqi people who have died since the u.s. latest Shock and awe which you thirst for. What about them. They are no different than us Mike. They wake up and comb their hair. Take a #, eat a piece of bread at lunch. go out and play in the rain like we do. they are no different. but yet you want to see more death and violence toward teh innocent in iraq. Now i know it is inevitable that innocents are gonna die in war. nobody has questioned that. but when you start meaningless and uneccesary wars. then my friend it is murder. The american gov. did not protect, it was not self defense. it was not to help another country out. We invaded iraq in 2003. It is murder. It makes feel so bad inside that this is the gov that we voted into office. Or i should say supposedly voted in. (election fraud 2004, but that is a totally diff story). the point of the fact it looks like to the rest of the world we voted in this gov. and that is what they see. so therefore, the rest of the world views us as the same as the gov. Even though i know noone at all who would commit such acts as the us gov has reigned down with vengence. so in short mike please wake up and see what is going on. Sorry for the long post guys and girls. i just wanted to get a few things off of my chest.


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