Let's Define 'Secret Society'

In order to have meaningful discussions on this forum, I believe we need to come to some sort of consensus on what constitutes a real "Secret Society". I would propose the following guidelines that could be used to define one:

1). Membership is secret
2). Meeting places are secret
3). Goals of the organization are secret
4). History/origin of the organization is secret

If a group does not meet these four criteria, is it really a secret society? If it meets 3 out of 4, is it a secret society? Are there other criteria that should be considered?

Some rationale behind these ideas:

1). Membership is secret - If we're talking about secret societies, then they must contain a membership which does not advertise the fact that it belongs to the society.

2). Meeting places are secret - Obviously a group that is truly secret would not want anyone to know where they meet.

3). Goals of the Organization are Secret - There must be a reason that a society is a "secret society"; i.e., there is something which they want to conceal from the general populace.

4). History/Origin - this goes along with #3

I would also propose that there is a difference between a "secretive society" and a "secret society"; i.e., the CIA is secretive, but everyone knows that exists, where it is located, etc.

Thoughts ?

Freemasons have been saying that we are not a secret society for a long time, for the same reasons you stated.

Our meeting places and times are public, our numbers listed in the phone book! Much of our society is very-well known and documented in thousands of books. Our members do not hide their affiliation. Lastly, although many conspiracy theorists do not believe it, our goals are very clear and public.

But we DO have our secrets. Our modes of recognition are secret for obvious reasons, so that nobody can pass themselves off as a mason and receive masonic benefits. Also, our meetings are kept private. We are no different than a corporation who has their own ID cards to access the company's buildings and who keep their company business private.

This would mean that, instead of being a secret society, we are a society with secrets. But the society itself is not secret by any means.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Freemasons have been saying that we are not a secret society for a long time, for the same reasons you stated.

I agree. I would put Freemasons in the category of "secretive society". Of course, so is your average business, which does not necessarily reveal all of its inner workings to the public. For example, the company I work for is a private company. It reveals its financials to employees, but not to the public. Also we have certain methodologies and processes that we sell, which we do not reveal to the general public. Does this make us a "secret society"? Of course not... but we do have some secrets.

OK - here we go with a bit of reality.
I'll site the two local Freemason Temples I know of in Phuket as examples.
1. Both have secret membership - at least 4 people I work with (all English ex-pats) are members of Lodges that meet at either one of these Temples and none of them will publically admit it.
2. Both are in secret locations, although if you know the dimensions and geometry of a Masonic Temple ( Single set of doors facing West etc...) they both stand out clear as day.
The owners are pretty trigger happy if they see anyone poking around, I wouldn't get too close to the one next to the shooting range.
3. Goals of the organisation are kept secret, even by their own admission 2 of the afformentioned Masons admitted that they have no idea what they are doing...yet.
4. Secret Origins - well anyone that gives answers like "it's always been here...", "nobody really knows...." etc...

Hey guess what, my favorite looney-mind-control-cult just got a perfect score!

Right - so what is the point of this thread again?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
OK - here we go with a bit of reality.

From you?! I highly doubt it.

I'll site the two local Freemason Temples I know of in Phuket as examples.

Enlighten us, oh learned one.

1. Both have secret membership - at least 4 people I work with (all English ex-pats) are members of Lodges that meet at either one of these Temples and none of them will publically admit it.

So if they won't admit it, how do you know they are Freemasons? Hmmm?

2. Both are in secret locations, although if you know the dimensions and geometry of a Masonic Temple ( Single set of doors facing West etc...) they both stand out clear as day.

Uh huh. Doors facing west. geez, there must be secret temples everywhere!

3. Goals of the organisation are kept secret, even by their own admission 2 of the afformentioned Masons admitted that they have no idea what they are doing...yet.

Hmmmmm... So first you say that they won't admit to being Masons, and now you're saying that they admit that they don't know what they are doing in their role as Masons? Self-contradiction, anyone?

4. Secret Origins - well anyone that gives answers like "it's always been here...", "nobody really knows...." etc...

Rrrrrrrright... Most Masons believe that Freemasonry is derived from the stonemasons' guilds of the 17th and 18th centuries. There are those that believe it goes back further than that, but the true origin of Freemasonry is not secret, it just can't be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt. Big difference there, Captain Commode.

Hey guess what, my favorite looney-mind-control-cult just got a perfect score!

Right - so what is the point of this thread again?

If you missed it, you're worse off than I thought.

[edit on 7/3/05 by The Axeman]

Axeman, you are without a doubt the achitypical Freemason.
You personify all of the key attribute associated with being a Freemason.
I won't say them again because I've got enough warnings from Brother Intrepid lately anyway.

You refuse to admit it.
You believe you are invisible, you absolutely relish the fact that no one can *prove* it because you will never admit it.
When you think you can get away with it I'm sure you will gleefully wave your Masonsonic affiliation in front of someone just before you leg it out of the room and then deny it enfatically to all present.
Freemasons *love* to do this, it's just as well really because it's the only thing they get out of being in the cult.
It's all childish games of "ooohhhhh.....let's make this guy think he is going crazy....then we can make all his friends think he is crazy etc....I mean who would believe that there are several hundred people following this guy all over town calling out his name or stealing his things and then putting them back in different places....ha ha ha ha...etc..."

Seriously do you ever stop to think about what you are actually doing with your life?
Do you think there may be some alterier motive behind all these secret assignments you are given, or is it just to keep your dull little mind under control?

Originally posted by MrNECROS

It's all childish games of "ooohhhhh.....let's make this guy think he is going crazy....then we can make all his friends think he is crazy etc....I mean who would believe that there are several hundred people following this guy all over town calling out his name or stealing his things and then putting them back in different places....ha ha ha ha...etc..."
Seriously do you ever stop to think about what you are actually doing with your life?
Do you think there may be some alterier motive behind all these secret assignments you are given, or is it just to keep your dull little mind under control?

mr necros, i have spent a lot of time in Thailand and it's a shame they let ex-pats like you stay around for so long giving others a bad name. I've seen your type many times....off to the far-east because they can't make it at home.....become un-hinged and paranoid. Go home man and get a job. You'll feel better and I bet the Freemasons will stop torturing you.

Three more words for you....Help IS Available

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Axeman, you are without a doubt the achitypical Freemason.
You personify all of the key attribute associated with being a Freemason.
I won't say them again because I've got enough warnings from Brother Intrepid lately anyway.

You refuse to admit it.

Oh this is absolutely PRECIOUS!!! I can't believe you're STILL trying to accuse Intrepid and Axeman of being masons, even after actual masons have told you that they are in no way affiliated with us!

This just confirms to me the fact that you're nuts. You're absolutely paranoid about Freemasons and Freemasonry and have feelings of persecution. Chill out! Freemasons could care less about you, dude. Seriously. People around you ARE NOT Freemasons, stop being so damn paranoid! :bnghd:

When you think you can get away with it I'm sure you will gleefully wave your Masonsonic affiliation in front of someone just before you leg it out of the room and then deny it enfatically to all present.

Axeman has said he wants to become a Freemason for a long time, and he's working on it. Of course he'll gleefully wave his affiliation when he has it, ALL masons are absolutely proud of their membership. The only masons I have EVER heard of that won't admit their affiliation are the ones you claim to know, which shows me that you don't really know any Freemasons.

Freemasons *love* to do this, it's just as well really because it's the only thing they get out of being in the cult.

Whatever you say dude
According to you, we also love to pick through people's trash, feed their dogs laxatives, drug them and force them to watch rituals, and blow up their toilets! You're absolutely nuts dude, get on with your life man.

It's all childish games of "ooohhhhh.....let's make this guy think he is going crazy....then we can make all his friends think he is crazy etc....I mean who would believe that there are several hundred people following this guy all over town calling out his name or stealing his things and then putting them back in different places....ha ha ha ha...etc..."

You make yourself seem crazy dude, listen to your ramblings!

Do you think there may be some alterier motive behind all these secret assignments you are given, or is it just to keep your dull little mind under control?

No mason have EVER been given ANY kind of secret assignment. Of course we would never admit this anyways, right? You're absolutely out of your mind dude, get some help... please.

[edit on 3-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Right - so what is the point of this thread again?

Actually, the point wasn't necessarily to discuss Masons specifically; it was to define what constitutes a secret society. I see many things being talked about here that don't seem to really be secret societies (Scientology, Alcoholics Anonymous, etc.) I thought such a discussion would be helpful to the forum, but I guess not!

JustMe - Don't take it personally but I doubt you will ever get the clarity you are looking for. What makes a secret society (at least any secret society that could possible be discussed on this board) is ignorance. If someone is ignorant of a "society", club, organization (whatever) it has secrets from them. They may be able to learn the answers to these secrets by doing simple research, but none the less they are secrets.

It is the fear of these secrets, often a paranoid failure to see and comprehend the truthful answers to the questions they have, which creates the need for boards such as this.

Yes there MAY be a FEW truly secret societies that we should truly be concerned with, but do you honestly think that if they truly had evil intentions they would be so careless as to let their existence be known? I have done a lot of research on religions; cults and “pagan” traditions and I can tell you from experience that a little research (of verifiable sources) with an open mind can do wonders to dispel many if not all of the rumors of secret societies.

Think of what happened to the “witches” of Salem. Simply calling someone a witch because they knew of an herbal remedy you had never heard of would get them burned at the state. The uneducated mind will fill the vacancies with whatever dribble it can find, often without cause or reason.

MrNECROS – That last statement seems to apply to you. And don’t reply by yammering off a list of credentials. Life is the ultimate educator bestowing upon one the common sense necessary to expel the majority of the dribble you have posted. Pull your head out of your shorts and try living a little. No one is out to get you. I doubt you are worth the effort.

I would add a fifth criterion that information and knowledge are kept secret. Sixth, recruitment must be kept secret. Additionally, from whom is the criteria kept secret? There might be complete secrecy, or only partial secrecy.

Originally posted by HeirX
mr necros, i have spent a lot of time in Thailand and it's a shame they let ex-pats like you stay around for so long giving others a bad name. I've seen your type many times....off to the far-east because they can't make it at home.....become un-hinged and paranoid. Go home man and get a job. You'll feel better and I bet the Freemasons will stop torturing you.

Three more words for you....Help IS Available

Actually HeirX, Necros DOES have a job. He's CEO of this company:

www.dresslersdog.com...

oh wait...maybe it was this one...

www.funforalltoys.com...

My thread here from '05 got derailed, but I still think it is relevant, and worth discussing.

How do we define what constitutes a "Secret Society"? Let's not necessarily get bogged down into discussing Freemasonry or even any specific organization.

What I would really like to do is come up with some sort of valid definition of what a "Secret Society" is. We see a lot of things being discussed here that don't seem to me to be secret societies. For example, Scientology. I may not agree with its aims and purpose, and I may or may not think it is a valid religion, but it's hardly a secret society by any definition of the term that I'm aware of.

Also, I'd like to add to my original post that by definition, a secret society does not necessarily have to have nefarious goals; it could be working to promote positive things.

reply to post by JustMe74


Wow JustMe, I noticed that you started this thread over 3 years ago. No one can accuse you of jumping the gun on responses!



Nevertheless, Necros' post is a perfect example of his type. Axe catches him in self-contradiction, in this case an outright lie, and since he can't defend what he wrote, he has to stoop to the level of attacking Axe personally.

Pathetic.

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Masonic Light]