THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Having school uniforms removes distractions. Period.
I see a lot of discussion here about the loss of identity associated with having school uniforms. What pains me is that kids believe their identity comes from clothing or other "objects of status"they or their parents can afford. The truth is that kids, whatever claims of individuality they proclaim, try to dress and imitate each other anyway. There's very little individualism in teens to begin with. Phycolgically the majority are trying not to be noticed during this transistionary period.
Perhaps the individualism should be found in what the kids are THINKING?! Improve the curriculem and the teaching. Improve the library and reading materials. Allow the individual to distinguish themselves intellectually, artistically, academically or athletically instead of by what year Ford Explorer they're driving or who has knock off jeans.
It also helps to remove the world of advertising manipulation from the constant bombarment of children and provides them a place of learning where everyone at least starts out equally and unencumbered with the "outside" world.
School must be voluntary for this to happen. Children and their parents must want to enter this world of education. This will provide the whole enviroment with the same drive.
For the rest of the kids whose primary concern is who's dating who, who's wearing what and who's driving that, they will end up flipping burgers anyway so let them get started without stigmatizing and intimidating more sensitive children who want to learn.
If they fall by the wayside, thats their choice, its evolution anyway.

[Everything is permissable]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Diversity, not uniformity, is our strength. Different groups, different idenitities, not one big one. Its a recipie for further conformity with society much later.

Whch is obviously why you joined the army.

Is all fine and good unless it causes more trouble than it's worth,I see diversity as a wedge being used in politics more than a benefit to anyone on a personal level,just another point to argue when the point is that we need to agree on some things for the good of all.
argue
argue
argue
waste our time arguing on things,while our rights keep vaporizing.

What does my joining the army have to do with this leveler? Have you run out of points to argue?

I joined the army because at that time, I knew no better and actually believed I would be defending and upholding American ideals. Thus, i was glad to choose that path at the time and idenitfy with that uniform.....

That was back when I knew no better and thought despite its cirruption, that America really was a free place worth dying for.

Now I know America is slowly becoming an NWO police state, something Im sure that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. Now I know when you don that uniform, youre unknowingly donning the principles of world dominations and political and Illuminati/Zionist greed.

Now Im out and shall never don another uniform again.

Ah...Leveler, is it so bad you must find people to stalk in Cold Angers abscence? Thats ok, you keep stalking me, Im enjoying you quite a bit. It definitely keeps me more alert and aware of the enormity of the problem, and your attempts to picture totolitarian govornment are quite enlightening. A view into the mind of enemy.

Diversity is not a bad thing. Nor is individuality.
But they have to be balanced with uniformity.

If everyone was fixed on a different course - chaos is the only possible thing that can ensue.
But we do need that spark of individuality. It's our humanity. Our soul.

One should never overcome the other.
Without diversity we are robots.
Without uniformity we are savages.


BTW. Skadi. Don't flatter yourself. I don't stalk idiots.

[Edited on 16-8-2003 by Leveller]

Of course you dont stalk idiots. You stalk me, after all!

Uniformity when enforced is the clear path to robot slaves. Uniformity when chosen is the path to proper action.

Choice. Choose.

Not a difficult point to understand.

I guess your point of view comes from your experience of the Amercan education system, something I don't have. However, in my school we were taught to read between the lines and make decisions for ourselves. In history, for example, we werent just taught what happened but we had to explain why it happened. In my school we didn't have the kind of 'indoctrination' that you talk of. But I had to wear a uniform everyday, a tie when I went out of the school and a blazer when I went to chapel or home on the weekends. While we were wearing our uniforms we had to follow the school rules because that was who we were representing.

To a point,if the kids are going to school to advertise for a clothing line,fine ,then school is a good place to be preoccupied with the latest style,instead of trying to learn things,they should just give em some of those store flyers to read (the ones blowing all over the neighborhood,the ones they leave on your porch and you never read anyway),or the ones you get balled up in your newspaper,since that is about as well as most of the real stylin kids can read anyway.
The advertising thing in the US is getting over the top,every year there are reports of kids beating and even killing each other over shoes or clothing,guns are a prob too,they have their place,but not in school,we are a TV addicted society living in a dreamworld where we are all convinced that we are immortal and are going to be famous sports personalities when we graduate from high school or college....
We are brainwashed,I say ,'we', because this is the case for the vast majority here,the whole world is buried in capitalist propaganda sales pitches and ripoffs.
Yes capitalism is a ripoff in it's most raw form.
School is a place to learn,get rid of the distractions.

People assume too much, that clothing is just some big distraction in school, that somehow, everyone is constantly worried about what everyone wears. Wake up.

Distractions from learning in school include:

1. Problems at home
2. Problems with friends
3. Problems with boyfriend/girlfriend
4. Problems with what is being taught

Instilling school uniforms is not going to remove distractions, or improve the quality of education any more, and its totally unnecessary.

This is absolutely silly. Uniforms are hardly an answer. Just create a new problem: showing kids they must conform, must conform, being different bad, doing what everyone else is doing: good. Cliques are a natural way for kids to chose thier peers and identify with someone else.

Kids dont need forced conformity to learn better, they simply need better teachers, stable homes with parents that care, and better educational content.

If you have made up your mind to be right,even when you are not,there is little point to talking to you,Bye.

to me, uniforms are just the first step in removing boundries of individuality verses conformity...but it is such a subtle gesture...that it is accepted without question...what better way to change the world, the smaller the actions, the less noticable, and more acceptable they become...even those who know better will agree, until they see it is too late...

in the end...uniformity, or conformity boils down to no difference...all the same...loss of individuality...whether is in the cloths our children wear to school....or the thought processess forced upon them in a Prussian based school system followed in the more prosporus countries of the world.

when we think of being ONE, as a race of humans, i don't think it refers to the manipulation of the minds of children today, or those to come...but should reflect the ONEness of something deeper, of spiritual developement...this comes from being individual enough to ask questions...

a conforming individual...is an oxymoron...

~Oracle

If a person gets to the stage in school life where they cannot see that they can be an individual in countless other ways besides the clothes they wear, then they're probably not intelligent enough to get through life without the support of a uniformal peer group.

I currently attend a state secondary school in the UK, where uniform is compulsory. I really do think it does more good than harm.

1. School isn't easy, and you have to be in a hard working, concentrated state of mind. Uniform reminds you that you are there to work, whereas when you are dressed casually, you are more likely to relax and slack off.

2. Uniform helps identify children who should be in the school, and people who should not, who may well intend to harm students.

3. Poor kids and rich kids still have to wear the same uniform. Therefore there is less of a stigma attached to wearing cheaper clothing.

4. Most importantly, girls look really hot in school uniforms, and without this incentive to attend school, I don't think any boys would ever bother to get out of bed in the morning.

I don't like school uniform any more than the next kid, it's uncomfartable, it's bland, and it groups me together with people I have nothing in common with, but I know I'm better of wearing it for the above reasons.

We can express our individuality in so many other ways that I really don't think much about school uniform. There is, of course, your personality, as someone else mentioned. There are school subjects which involve self expression, such as Art, English, Music, and subjects like Modern Studies which involve debate. A student can use these subjects to express opinions, thoughts and feelings.

School is a large part of any child's life, and it can sometimes seem all consuming, but really at my age, society outside of school is a larger part of my life. We express ourselves and act with individuality outside of school all the time. In school we just concentrate on gaining the qualifications we need to get a job where we can truly be individuals. We learn alot outside in the real world, and the streets can be just as importand a place of learing as school. People sometimes overestimate it's importance.

I don't know what the American system of education is like, although not everything I hear about it is so good. This post only reflects what I think about education in Britain.

And like everyone else, I do hate school, but I realise it's importance. I wish there was another way, but there isn't. Anyway, I don't believe in the NWO, but I do believe that schools are being slowly dumbed down. Whether this is to cater for the lowest common denominator, or to control us, I just don't know.

[Edited on 17-8-2003 by CiderGood_HeadacheBad]

It looks like those who are against the idea are those who have never had to wear one. Try it, you might like it

Conformity for the wrong reasons is bad,I do not like to dress up,I suppose some would call it modesty,a little practiced but good thing in the world today,but I do not wear my favorite old clothes,or I would look like a slob compared to others,they would judge me and have very little to do with me that is of a constructive ,or positive nature,they would avoid me because I would not fit in at all.
I do not carry guns into places that forbid carrying guns.
I do not drive on the wrong side of the road.
I stop at stop signs.
I obey traffic signals.
I respect other that have the right of way.
I have a drivers license.
I pay my taxes.
I go to work on time or I lose my job.
I try not to openly defy people,or offend them.
I do not remove my pants at the bus stop.
I respect other people opinions,even if I may disagree.
I have been in the military,and know what it is to conform completely or get the big green weenie.
We all have to conform to a certain extent if we want to get along at all,there is no point to arguing about it if the arguing disrupts constructive effort to find a COMPROMISE that will suit everyones wants and needs.
I cannot help that some wish to remain naive.

wow..a lot of "I's" there...

thing is, i know that "conforming", to a certain extent, is required to just exist in this world...that's a given...altho, i do not look at it as conforming..but more like following certain requirements, in order to get along with other human beings...

Individualism comes in when we refuse to jump on the band wagon and go with the crowd...when we do not go against what we believe in...in order to "Fit In"...

Worn a uniform before, my kid has also worn one...and when people decide that you don't fit in with their clique, or expectations of what they think you should be...it doesn't matter what clothes one wears or doesn't wear....

~Oracle

I have attended American Public schools and here is what I think...

The Federal government should be breathing down on the necks of the state controled schools. There should be greater emphasis on core subjects, and less on the electives. Teachers need to be evaluated by the federal government, not by the administration at the same school.

Funding needs to be shifted away from the sports/extra activites and towards academic study. Example; my school barely has enough desks for our students(in many classes our students share desks), but they decided to build a new stadium instead of investing in the school.

Subjects like chorus, band, etc. are only taking money away from were we really need it. Why should my parents pay for something most people don't like to do?

Uniforms would actually really help imo. This individualism thing has gone too far... it leads to excess selfishness. It also leads to a loss of respect for adults and teachers. It has really gotten out of hand... the good majority of kids have no concept of family loyalty, or loyalty to their country.

This self-esteem thing is also a load of crap. Failure is a part of life... it's better to learn to cope with it in school then in the real world.

Ok I'm done ranting...

Na Zdrowie!

I wear a uniform at my shcool I hate it it is red and green I wishI went to a scool where you could wear anythiing that would be kewl we have bad food at our school to it is yucky I got sick and has to go to a doctor

need to be taught to question everything,if they really want to know what is going on they should not even be concerned about the clothing they are wearing,one less distraction,it doesn't make any difference.
The last thing that someone needs to learn is vanity,save it for when they can pay for their own clothes.
I don't have any kids of my own,I borrowed some from my ex-wife for about 13 years,all they wanted was 'stuff' that their friends would think was cool,they did'nt even want it for themselves,it was to fit into a crowd or group,it was a waste of time for all involved.