US denies UN access to Guantanamo

US 'stalling UN Guantanamo visit'

"Investigators from the United Nations have accused the US of stalling over their repeated requests to visit detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

The UN said for over a year there had been no response to its requests to check on the condition of detainees. "

news.bbc.co.uk...

Obviously they have things to hide - scared of opening the prison to an outside independent body!! Previously even the most brutal and cruel regimes have allowed visits (Red Cross) to check conditions / treatment were humane in their POW camps. They didn't allow such inspections in death camps - obviously.

Shameful

[edit on 23-6-2005 by CTID56092]

You know, throwing in random Nazi comments is a great way to derail whatever it is you are trying to accomplish

The Nazis went to great lengths to hide what they were doing.

Comparing a place where some prisoners and politically motivated people have been claiming mistreatment to places that millions of people were gassed and burned to death is asinine.

Why would you do that?

Originally posted by CTID56092
Obviously they have things to hide - even the Nazis allowed visits!!

Shameful

Are you saying that our soldiers are worse than Nazi's? How dare you! I demand an apology! The fact that you used the word "Nazi" cancels out any torture that Americans are responsible for, no matter how horrible.

Sincerely,
A true American patriot

(yes I'm being sarcastic)


[edit on 6/23/2005 by Lecky]

No all I said was the Nazis allowed the protecting power (in their case the Red Cross) access to the camps and the prisoners. The US denies the UN access.

Original post edited to prevent offence

When is Europe going to get it? We do not worship the UN, the UN did not grant the U.S. (or any nation) authority, and we will not yield to the UN unless we feel like it. The UN may have been a good idea, but it has proven itself useless and harmful.

I guess what I am trying to say is who cares?

Yeah, we should allow people who have made up their minds that we are guilty of torture before they even requested for any visit. We have allowed journalists, senators and congressman to the Base it snot like we have anything to hide we just don't like the UN.

Originally posted by cavscout
When is Europe going to get it? We do not worship the UN, the UN did not grant the U.S. (or any nation) authority, and we will not yield to the UN unless we feel like it. The UN may have been a good idea, but it has proven itself useless and harmful.

I guess what I am trying to say is who cares?

Why not? You ignore all other laws when it suits you. For years you've used the UN to justify your illegal wars / ensured it never censured your nazi puppet state. When the UN finally has a DG who'll stand up to you & declare your crusade illegal you smear him and say the UN 'needs reform'.

Your arrogance is almost a breath-taking as your ignorance. Are you an American diplomat?

You may care when China invades Taiwan using 'we're big and can do what we like' excuse.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by CTID56092]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah, we should allow people who have made up their minds that we are guilty of torture before they even requested for any visit. We have allowed journalists, senators and congressman to the Base it snot like we have anything to hide we just don't like the UN.

Who, when, who selected them?

let's have your evidence

Obviously they have things to hide - scared of opening the prison to an outside independent body!!

The UN, an independent body!!!! Hah, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Originally posted by SportyMB

The UN, an independent body!!!! Hah, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

WHo are they controled by then? Agreed some countries have more power than others, and all countries there play politics, but I can't see any other organisation that would fit the bill.

Which one do you think should inspect Gitmo ?

Originally posted by CTID56092
Why not? You ignore all other laws when it suits you.

Of course we do. We are a sovereign nation, we do what we want. Until we do something bad enough for the world to step in and stop us, we will continue to do what we want.

The UN came after the US. Just as the people of a nation hold the inherent and implied right to cease listening to their government (the people, in fact, are the government) so do individual Sovereign nations hold the inherent right to cease listening to the UN (the nations, in fact, are the UN.)

For years you've used the UN to justify your illegal wars / ensured it never censured your nazi puppet state. When the UN finally has a DG who'll stand up to you & declare your crusade illegal you smear him and say the UN 'needs reform'.

Of course our government has the responsibility to the American people to look after our needs above the needs of other nations and the UN. The US government would be negligent in its duties if it favored the will of the UN or the opinion of Europeans over the good and welfare of the states and people that make up the US.

Your arrogance is almost a breath-taking as your ignorance.

Arrogance? No sir, I am a realist. I don't think the US is necessarily better than any other nation but I do think it is different. We are a collection of hundreds of millions of humans who have only a few things in common, and that is that we live better than most of the world and we don't take kindly to others attempting to rule us. We didn’t like Europe telling us what to do centuries ago and nothing has changed. We are independent; we do not have thousands of years worth of royal and papist control making us think we need strong leadership dictating every part of our lives. We are independent, and we will be damned if some tiny island nation, a bunch of cheese loving perverts and a defeated country we still occupy full off alcoholics who don’t like to bathe and urinate on the city streets are going to tell us what to do and who to kill, no matter what international control agency they are worshiping this week.

You may care when China invades Taiwan using 'we're big and can do what we like' excuse.

I don’t care, and I hope we stay out of it, just as we should stay out of the affairs of all other nations and they should stay out of ours.

If the rest of the world doesn't like what we are doing, then do something about it. We don’t respond to whining. Either teach us a lesson or back off and watch history pass you up from the sidelines.



[edit on 24-6-2005 by cavscout]

Silly American, ego's are for people that have something to brag about. Lets face it, America is bent of the oil barrel from the Suadi's, is Isreal's "bi@&h", and has pissed of all of her allies...

And yet this tripe gets spewed forth?

Nemsis envaribly follows hubris pal.

You do know what that means right?

So basically, complain when another nation doesn't allow U.N. inspectors access (of course this is generally made a moot point since the US doesn't believe them anyway), and complain when the U.N. inspectors want to have a look at something run by the US.

Hmmmm, sounds a bit like double standards to me.

Anyway, surely it doesn't take a year to tidy everything up a bit and make it look respectable?

For goodness sake, if the camp is really the not such a bad place, wouldn't the US (being the noble nation that it is) accept the requests in order to make it clear to the world what great guys there are?

[edit on 24-6-2005 by DenyAllKnowledge]

Questions:

- WHY dont the US allow UN Inspectors to Guantanamo?

Isnt that the Same as if Iran would not Allow International Nuclear Inspectors to come to check up on their Nuclear Research?

- WHAT are the US Hiding in Guantanamo, so that they cant allow UN Inspectors come?

Its quite obvios, that if you dont allow somebody to Inspect, you dont want him to see something.

And the Problem is, that if Iran would deny the Inspectors all Hell would break Loose - if the USA does it, its just Fine and Dandy.

Hypochrisy Again?

[edit on 24/6/05 by Souljah]

DAK,

Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
So basically, complain when another nation doesn't allow U.N. inspectors access (of course this is generally made a moot point since the US doesn't believe them anyway), and complain when the U.N. inspectors want to have a look at something run by the US.
[edit on 24-6-2005 by DenyAllKnowledge]

In the dictionary under HYPOCRITE it is just a picture of the US Government.

Cheers

BHR

There hidding the Abuse that takes place daily and there hidding pottential torcher chambers. that are situated in the complex

and may be some nuke silos where iraqis are luanced to space like in the 50-60 space testing modules to see if life can live on space especially the iraqis you know sputnik its that the american version is called iraqikick, Bush Admistration needs IRAQS OIL BADLY, needs to get the iraqi out of there own country NOW, just like ISRAEL with pelestines

Interseptor,

Can you post links to this new information you have brought to our attention?

Cheers

BHR

The Red Cross has visited Guatanamo.

As for comparing the U.S to Nazis......................


.......................if the cap fits.

American citizens may not like to think too deeply about what their military and government are condoning and encouraging but then, guess what ?, neither did the German ppl.

In my view those who continue to deny that the U.S are responsible for heinous act of torture are as bad as holocaust deniers.

The put nationalism, patriotism and ideology above overwhelming evidence.

Such close minded people will therefore excuse any behaviour no matter how inhumane.

If there was in fact such horrible mistreatment of prisoners there, then it is up to the US government to punish the people responsible.

What exactly do you all think a UN inspection will accomplish? The answer is nothing.

Understand this, once and for all. The complaints are NOT about physical facilities at Gitmo. The complaints are NOT about window size, or paint color, or lack of couches.

The complaints are about mistreatment, physically and/or mentally, in terrible ways by troops towards detainees. If that IS going on, are you insane enough to believe that it would continue to go on in front of "UN Inspectors" with cameras writing reports? Do you think that the "Koran flushing" incidents, if true, would be done in front of said inspectors?

Inspections are done for physical reasons, facilities etc. Not behavior, because it's pretty darn sure that people would behave differently with outsiders around.

Please give it a rest and learn how to distinguish political rhetoric from an actual desire for action. This inspection would accomplish next to nothing anyways. It would fast become a contest. In the blue corner we have the US government attempting to make sure all the prisoners are smiling and look in good shape. In the red corner we have detainees who wish to get out yelling about all sorts of awful things. Who will win?

Chances are the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[edit on 6-24-2005 by Djarums]

Originally posted by Djarums
If there was in fact such horrible mistreatment of prisoners there, then it is up to the US government to punish the people responsible.

What exactly do you all think a UN inspection will accomplish? The answer is nothing.

Understand this, once and for all. The complaints are NOT about physical facilities at Gitmo. The complaints are NOT about window size, or paint color, or lack of couches.

The complaints are about mistreatment, physically and/or mentally, in terrible ways by troops towards detainees. If that IS going on, are you insane enough to believe that it would continue to go on in front of "UN Inspectors" with cameras writing reports? Do you think that the "Koran flushing" incidents, if true, would be done in front of said inspectors?

Inspections are done for physical reasons, facilities etc. Not behavior, because it's pretty darn sure that people would behave differently with outsiders around.

Please give it a rest and learn how to distinguish political rhetoric from an actual desire for action. This inspection would accomplish next to nothing anyways. It would fast become a contest. In the blue corner we have the US government attempting to make sure all the prisoners are smiling and look in good shape. In the red corner we have detainees who wish to get out yelling about all sorts of awful things. Who will win?

Chances are the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[edit on 6-24-2005 by Djarums]

I think your on the right line but your wrong about the insepection would have no results of course it will have results the inspectors will ask the prisoner to guve ther opinion point. of good result