Dimensional Theory vs. Quantum Theory

For everyone who doesnt quite understand either of the theories (if i do not state these theories correctly then please correct me later)- the 5th Dimensional theory basically states that first of all you have length, width, height, and time, But then you have a 5th dimension that would simplify many ideas and problems with physics today. For example scientists who belive in the 5th Dimension theory say that light would travel in this dimension- also this dimension would be "crumpled" and that "crumpled" effect would explain many of the forces in the world: nuclear, gravitational, electromagnetic. Einstein was working on the " Unified field Theory" when he died- it had the thought that there were more dimensions that the "accepted 4" he thought that there might actually be 10 dimensions, but for now the 5th is the only one we will be focusing on. Using the 5th dimension as an escape route for many of these hard-to-fully-understand-topics, would greatly simplify the way physics is looked at and understood. Some of the scientists that thought through this idea speculated that the 5th dimension occurs at a sub-atomic level - (about 10 power -33 centi.) To explore this possibility a massive amount of energy would have to be created- something that humans will not achieve for at least several centuries- so there in lies the problem of dimensional theory- it sounds good and fits perfect but lacks physical evidence. Also remember that dimensional physics occurs at a universe-wide level, not just sub-atomic particles.

www.mkaku.org...
home.flash.net...
www.firstscience.com...

Alright now for Quantum mechanics: now i understand that quantum mechanics has been proven, but most of the experiments prove that quantum mechanics only occurs on a sub-atomic scale, and its isnt seen in the planetary matter of the universe ( planets, sun, etc) Also Quantum physics doesnt really know what its about exacly- to make this clearer- i mean to say that no one really knows how it would work or why. Same thing in the Dimesional theory except that the theories developed about dimensions makes perfect sense in the world of all phsyiscs if only there were physical evidence to prove it.

www.jracademy.com...
theory.uwinnipeg.ca...
library.thinkquest.org...

Both are very confusing topics and both have thier good focal points- Post your ideas on which one you thing is the more "correct" or more "feasible" Theory. Sorry if i was not able to clear up anybody's thoughts- i just wrote this down from memory and i am not sure how accurate this description of both quantum phyiscs and dimensional physics is. Oh yea also be free to discuss what creatures would live in that dimesion and what type of abilities they posses. I will post later on the visualization of the 5th dimension.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by horten229v3]

[edit on 22-6-2005 by horten229v3]

Your asking us whether we think Quantum physics or Classical Physics will explain the most?

Quantum theory has that somewhat odd "uncertainty principle" which allows for the explanation of the EM force and everything else by exchange of particles, but also leads to really weird things like entanglement which sort of go against common sense. No one has really given classical physics the time of day since Einstein because Quantum theory has made such incredible progress, but Quantum theory has begun to see the end in which it cannot explain gravity and relativity effectively.

I simply perfer "dimensional" theory, or something like it, because it doesnt require the loophole producing rules of quantum theory.

However, they will undoubtibly both be required to fully explain physics.

Yes i am asking whether you believe that "Dimensional Physics" or "Quantum physics" will explain the most. I also personally belive in "Dimensional physics" for 2 reasons- it would greatly simplify physics if it were proven true, AND i would love to go into the 5th dimension lol. The abilities in the 5th dimension are as follows: passing through matter, appearing\reappearing, and basically going anywhere you want- like a GOd mode in a video game. Now to be able to "sort of" imagine this world i will tell you the story of "Bill." Bill lives in 2-d world, he robbed a bank so they sent him to prison- so in prison they drew a line around him to "imprison" him. He could not escape, but his friend from the 3-d world came to help him (this would be our dimension) so his friend Jack peels him off and the prison guards suddenly see Bill disappear in the prison. Bill has been taken to the next dimension, the 3-d powers seem awsome to the 2-d people, people can be suddenly taken, then reappear somwhere else- also the 3-d creatures can go right through walls and buildings (to us this seems ridiculously simple) alright well when BIll gets out of prison he sees his friend jack- since he has only seen 2-d and cannot fully visualize 3-d, all he sees is the boots and wierd shapes and shadows- (for him a truly terrifying experience) alright so it is impossible for him to really "see" the 3-d world, that would be the same for us- the 5th d people would be able to make us "appear and reappear" anywhere and the 5th d people could get into any locked safe, any building, or any base. Now scientists speculate what the 5-d creatures would look like- the consensus is that, we, as 3-d people would just see "moving blobs of color" because our senses would not be able to fully interpret and "see" the 5th d people in their full.

Im a little bit rusty on this, but basically there are 4 forces in quantum physics. Gravity, magnetism, weak force, and strong force. Weak and strong forces describe interactions between subatomic particles and arent relevant to my point anyway. Gravity is evident in large objects like planets, but not in atoms. The gravitational force weaker than is predicted by the current formulas used to predict that kind of stuff.


There is a theory now, called "Loop Quantum Gravity" which attempts to explain where the missing gravitational force goes by saying that it goes into a "5th dimension". Its not a place you can go to, and there is no evidence that this is actually what happens. There is also part of the theory or a variation of it that predicts that there is some sort of mirror of each dimension hence the 10 dimensions thing. Ive forgotten the specifics of that part, sorry. Its been a few years since I read about all this. Theres a lot more to the theory than that and its very interesting if you have some background knowledge of quantum mechanics.

I know i am quite fascinated with the 10 dimensions and quantum physics- i am devouring the books at my local Barnes and Noble- its just amazing and awsome to think about the potential, and to think about why all of the Physic work doesnt fit, and how it MIGHT fit in one theory or another some day.

Oh yea and im not sure if the 4 forces are what you would call "quantum" they are just the 4 forces that interact with each other in the Universe.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by horten229v3]

Time was man-made measuring something moving relative to something else-not a dimension. Our 5 senses are adapted to 3-dimentional feel. The fourth is the space between objects of the third and is more complicated than simple man-made measures. Quantum is just going beyond 5-senses into what our brain is not used to understanding. If our brains connected to 6-7-8-9-10 other senses to "see" other dimentions than we would be much more intelligent but thats beyond the point.
Electrons interact at 3000000000 miles apart between the 4th and 5th dimension which spirits reside. Its like if everyone had no eyes but a race of people did and saw you they would be in another dimension in perspective but not technically. (Just drank a bunch of coffee and might not make sense)

Ya well in all of the books i have read about the 5th dimension they liken the visions of the beings in the 5th dimension to try to be able to tell a blind man what color looks like.

Originally posted by horten229v3
For everyone who doesnt quite understand either of the theories (if i do not state these theories correctly then please correct me later)- the 5th Dimensional theory basically states that first of all you have length, width, height, and time, But then you have a 5th dimension that would simplify many ideas and problems with physics today.

Uhm... no.

What you're describing is not what scientists and mathemeticians believe. It IS what everyone else (and some authors) believe.

To the scientist, dimensional mathematics (they explore up to an infinitiy of dimensions) is a branch of topology.
mathworld.wolfram.com...

It's a very fascinating and detailed study, and "set theory" is an intrinsic part of it. It involves concepts such as "cover" mathworld.wolfram.com... and Hausdorf spaces, and fractal dimensions.

For example scientists who belive in the 5th Dimension theory say that light would travel in this dimension- also this dimension would be "crumpled" and that "crumpled" effect would explain many of the forces in the world: nuclear, gravitational, electromagnetic.

Outside comic books, no... there's not a single scientist who thinks this (well, none who work with dimensional theory and quantum theory.) Buckaroo Banzai and others travel into other, fantastical dimensions but they are still "comic book" notions. Unfortunately, they were glommed onto by a few people who loved the notion but didn't want to look the math in the face (or didn't bother looking beyond the comic book concept.)

Klein and a few others thought that the unified field theory might be possible under 10 dimensional theory -- but it's not normal spatial dimensions that is being talked about. And the mathematical explorations of that involve some mighty intimidating formulas.
www.pbs.org...

To explore this possibility a massive amount of energy would have to be created-

Just mathematical energy. And energy to read through some calculus books. Then you get to topology, and that's the really fun stuff... but, alas, you do need good math skills to wirk with it.

Alright now for Quantum mechanics: now i understand that quantum mechanics has been proven,

Well, yes and no. It's not just one concept. It's a whole huge field.

Calculus is involved. Lots of it.

but most of the experiments prove that quantum mechanics only occurs on a sub-atomic scale, and its isnt seen in the planetary matter of the universe ( planets, sun, etc)

Well, yes and no. Quantum mechanics is the description of how things tick on a subatomic scale. If they don't tick, the macro-atomic doesn't exist.
www-theory.chem.washington.edu...

Both are very confusing topics and both have thier good focal points- Post your ideas on which one you thing is the more "correct" or more "feasible" Theory.

I'll be honest: most people don't understand it, and the websites that AREN'T mathematical are almost always full of misunderstandings. Generally they offer some fluffy integration of the dimensions and announce some incredible powers, as though the scientists who have been working with this for years hadn't the imagination to perceive the obvious.

Now, my take is a bit different because I am married to a mathemetician. I've had this stuff explained to me (the algebras and set theories and so on and so forth.) It makes my eyeballs cross and makes all my grey cells panic.

I think it should be discussed and we should explore it, but in order to do so, you need topology (the first link I showed you) and math to deal with it (they've got math on that site.)

But the comic book idea of dimensions isn't very useful in explaining anything that isn't in comic books.

when i started writing this article i was only part way into a book on the subject. LOL i was way too excited to get started and i failed to grasp the concepts fully before i started writing. With further reading i found that Dimensional physicsists REALLY believe several differnt things, one i found is that there might be 10 or 28 dimensions according to an indian physicist that had those 2 numbers keep reapearing. Then some scientists think that before the big bang that there was a "multiverse" and then when the big bang happend the multiverse collapsed into just the 10th and the 28th (these are all theories that i have taken from the book "hyperspace" written by Michio Kaku- one of the origional phyiscists working on "string theory") Now some scientists think that there could be an "infinite" number of dimensions. Oh yea and back to quantum physics- quantum physics works on the subatomic (strong and weak forces) scale, so while it does keep our bodies together and the universe going, it still pertains to the subatomic level when we talk about it- because that is where the law occurs. Sorry if my posts lack scientific strength behind them, but i try to write as soon as i read stuff so i just get to excited to keep myself from writing lol

i want to rephrase my last statment- the universe, as some scientists believe, started OUT with 10 or 28dimensions, then when the big bang happened the 4th and the 6th were left.