France and UK prepare for co-operation over aircraft carriers

Originally posted by russiankid
oh.... so it can launch all of those... nice are they hard to sink??? i mean if all the aircrafts are away

Whoah there, you asked what types can land on aircraft carriers I suggested a few, not WHAT any specific one can mate.

ok... how about the Catapault Take Off Landing??? never heard of them

Originally posted by russiankid
ok... how about the Catapault Take Off Landing??? never heard of them

There launched from a catapult and caught by some catching mechanism at the other end, I aint that good on landing stuff....

oh ok... well anyway... if all of the aircrafts are away fighting... does the ship have some cannons on it?? does it have some aircrafts that are just staying in the ship incase that its attacked???

Originally posted by russiankid
oh ok... well anyway... if all of the aircrafts are away fighting... does the ship have some cannons on it?? does it have some aircrafts that are just staying in the ship incase that its attacked???

If I remember correctly it always has a stand alone squadron of fighters.
The types of self defense weapons vary but standard is really just self defence weapons like the phalanx and goalkeeper for example. They also carry some missiles for limited offensive capability.

cool what kind ov armor do ships have??? do they have any???

Originally posted by russiankid
cool what kind ov armor do ships have??? do they have any???

Unsure....I would probably say bog standard.

bog standard huh... so is the UK and France just going to keep thos cariers?

Originally posted by russiankid
bog standard huh... so is the UK and France just going to keep thos cariers?

The UK and France will be building these new carriers (I think) Which wil have the F-35B , which is STOVL.

The french will use their new Rafale jet that is capable of naval (carrier) operations. The Brits now want to redesign the EF-2000 and create a naval version, too.

The french will use their new Rafale jet that is capable of naval (carrier) operations. The Brits now want to redesign the EF-2000 and create a naval version, too.

The F-35B STOVL version will be operated mainly from the existing carriers, since these dont have catapults.

so are they going to keep the cariers once they build them??? or... are they going to be ready towds the war with Russia and China?????????

Originally posted by Lonestar24
The F-35B STOVL version will be operated mainly from the existing carriers, since these dont have catapults.

??
From the existing ones?
You mean illustrios, invincilbe and ark royal?
Dont you think there getting a BIT old?

i think that they ARE old...Illustrious is from 1982...and Ark Royal is from 1985...
hmmmmm how long does it take to make a aircraft carrier??? and Russia and France and the UK nad U.S.A do have like... a lot of them right??? cuz i did some searchs and all i found is 2 aircraft carriers Illustrious and Ark Royal

Originally posted by russiankid
i think that they ARE old...Illustrious is from 1982...and Ark Royal is from 1985...
hmmmmm how long does it take to make a aircraft carrier??? and Russia and France and the UK nad U.S.A do have like... a lot of them right??? cuz i did some searchs and all i found is 2 aircraft carriers Illustrious and Ark Royal

[ur]http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/148.html[/url]

thats the site i got the years from...

for those of you who dont know or have never been told.
The key to aircraft carriers is not sinking them per se...it is disabling them so that they cannot launch or recover their aircraft.

What you are not told is that modern submarines are quite capable of taking out a carrier. Conventional or nuclear submarines. I speak of those equiped with modern state of the art sonar and weapons.
What is not told to most peoples is the manner in which a modern torpedo works. It need not impact the side of a vessel and most of them dont in fact do this. Any close observation of modern torpedo tests will bring this observation home.
Modern torpedos are designed to explode under the hull of surface vessels and blow the water out from under the ship. This leaves a hole in the water in which the ship then violently falls into and breaks its back. You often see the ships breaking in two and sinking verses the olde WW2 methods of just sinking. This is a clear indicator of the absolute power packed in the modern explosives in use today.
All you have to do with a modern carrier including Nimitz class carriers is bend the flight deck and they are useless. Two or Three modern torpedos are all it would take. The modern chemical explosive combinations are that powerful. You then sink them at your leisure or go on to other more valuable targets.
The last time I saw a video like this was one on the web where the Australian Navy was checking out their newly refitted submarines against a olde salvaged surface ship and using a Mk 48 torpedo. It was clear in the video that the shot exploded underneath and the ship broke in two when sinking into the hole created by the explosion. If I remember correctly this was a refit of the Austraulian Collins class submarines being tested.
I do not believe most of the surface ship people in any Navy including the US Navy have a clue how vulnurable they really are to submarines if they are ever cut loose to do what they do best.

Just some additional information for your basic knowlege and consideration

Thanks,
Orangetom

OrangeTom,

You are quite right on the vulnerablility of todays supercarriers.

What many people do not realise is the sheer power of the engines in these things, which propel the ship to 30+knots using invariably 4 props.

This speed is essential to launch combat aircraft with any meaningful payload.

Knock out the props, ship dead in the water, no offensive combat operations.

Hell of a lot easier than trying to pierce holes in the side etc.

Cheers

BHR

Yup..sure enough ..agree...most havent a clue.

I was refering to bending the deck so that no aircraft could be launched or recovered but any damage to the propulsion system would put her dead in the water. Shut down the steam system and no aircraft can be launched on steam catapults.

All this high tech looks good in videos or on paper..but few think of the vulnerabilities. These large carriers are built very heavy duty..but people dont often think that the weapons are evolving ..in quantum leaps over the last 20 years. So to the strategys in using high tech weapons.

Thanks again Bill,
Orangetom

you go away for a week and look what happens!!!!!

Armour: Modern ships dont use it (beyond the high tensile steel they are made from) it makes the ships to stiff and vunerable to mines and torpedos. They work on the principle that the best armour is to not get hit!

Defenses: all carriers have defences against attack if the planes are not available. most will have phalanx/goalkeeper type systems (usually 3 or four spread around or just below the ships deck). Some also have missile systems. I think the nimitz has SM's aboard, and untill they were removed in the last refits the invincible class each had a sea dart system installed in the bow, giving them the same offensive anti air power as a type 42 destroyer.

Planes: the current plans for the uk are to field the F35 from the new Queen Elizabeth class carriers, as they should (yeah right!!) be coming into service at the same time. If the F35 arrives first they may yet fly from the invincible class. IN either case the F35 will be the STOVL variant as our new carriers are being "fitted for but not with cataupalts" (posh way of saying they will leave space in the hull to fit them when we can afford them and the planes that use them (one may be fitted sooner if the navy goes with a plane type AEW system eg E3). As a backup incase the F35 project collapses, the Uk has studed if the eurofighter can be navalised, but nothing more than paerwork has ever been done about it.

Engines: if you want to see the power of non nuclear carriers, the invincible has 4 Rolls Royce Olympus engines, they are the same ones that powered concorde (one powered a plane to mach 2, the other drives a 20,000dwt ship at 30+ knots).

Damage: yes carriers are extreamly vunerable, while they are unlikely to be sunk with anything short of a sustained missile, torpedo or air strike, they can easily be put out of the game. Props and rudder stop the carrier moving into the wind fast enough to launch aircraft, missile strikes on the lifts and cats stop further aircraft being launched, a bomb strike on the aft end would wreck the arrester gear so not planes could land, torpedo floods the magazines, no more bombs available. There are many ways to take a carrier out without sinking it.

Modern wepons are not always designed to sink the boat (not always wanted), some modern missiles are designed to explode over the top of ships with large fragmentation warheads, thereby shredding the radars and electrical equipment and making the ship blind, deaf and any easy target for further attack.

oh and for the last time the Royal Navy has 4 carriers in service and two on order.

3 invincible class with harriers (for now)
1 Ocean class helicopter carrier (why the didnt just but a ski ramp on it i'll never know??????)

2 Queen Elizabeth class due in service 2012 and 2015 (more likely 2015 and 2018), building should start in the next 18-24 months.