How can the universe just "be"?

Originally posted by CrossBone
I Think you have answered your own question and it is the answer you dont wont to hear.

well where did the energy for that to take place come from?

If you arent satisfied with the "its always been there then", perhaps you can comprehend a greater being that has the power to have created it out of nothing.

Its a double edge sword that has extremely sharp edges.


I personally believe that a higher being had to have created it. Like you said, "Where did all the matter come from?".

From "Him"

You indicated that you couldnt comprehend the alternative.

Whats left?

Well then big question is, where did "he" come from?

Originally posted by chris_dk

Well then big question is, where did "he" come from?

Exactly.. I've gotten back to this same position a few times. The whole thing is perplexing. The world may never know.

Where did we the universe come from the greatest question ever told.

The Bible goes straight into that.

Here are some website articles that might interest some as it trys to ask the Universe question too with other questions you may like. Its a Science magazine website.

www.sciencemag.org...




[edit on 2-7-2005 by The time lord]

Originally posted by spamandham
It isn't possible if the universe has always existed, and it isn't the least bit scientific, as it is a hypothesis drawn out of thin air supported by nothing, and intentionally designed such that no attempts at falsification can be made. Each time 'god did it' is falsified, the definition of god changes.

The label of "God" is a manmade creation. The existance of a highly highly highly advanced form of life so far beyond us, fully capable of snapping their "fingers" and bringing a complete universe into existance, is a very real possibility. AND, it follows scientific rigor. I know this seems to contradict my statement of Time not existing prior to the Big Bang, but I need to reinterate that Time, what we know as Time, really did begin at this point. Although the word "prior" is not valid, what may have happened prior to that instant had zero influence whatsoever on what we perceive as Time today. Therefore, what may have existed prior to the Big Bang, is irrelevant and there is absolutely no point in trying to determine or make sense of it.

An uncreated universe would be a serious blow to the 'god hypothesis' as there would no longer be a role for a creator. I suspect that the role would change from 'creator' to 'sustainer' and the god hypothesis would morph once again to prevent attempts at falsification.

By admitting it is a hypothesis you are stating it is indeed a scientific formulation. However, I would advise not to cast the standard Christian dogma onto the entire concept of religion. Sure, I hate with a passion structured organized religion... it does nothing but harm to the essence of the mind, but the true fundamental idea behind it, that there is something much greater than ourselves, somewhere, is not flawed, yet.

Originally posted by apc
By admitting it is a hypothesis you are stating it is indeed a scientific formulation.

It is a legitimate hypothesis for those who haven't examined it closely. Until you get into the details, it seems reasonable. A hypothesis is nothing more than speculation based on a loose induction. But once the basis of that induction falls, it's time to put asside the hypothesis.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx

big bang? well where did the energy for that to take place come from?

in the theory i was reading it says

"The universe has existed forever. In The distant past, it was nearly empty. Forces such as gracitation were in herently weak.

Besides Creationism or a God that put things into motion, your answer can really not be answered.
Your question doesn't have anything to do with Space either (if you ask me), just with the (very good b t w) question of how something appeared out of nothing.

I am quite sure God had a hand in that, but you didn't want any religious answers you said, so I am afraid there won't be any anwers then.
At least not correct ones.

[edit on 3-7-2005 by Jakko]

As for the big question, where did "He" come from, regarding God.
Sooner or later everyone will have to accept that the very beginning of everything always was.
Atheists say the universe always was, or that they don't know, and Creationists say that God always was.

Since we know that the universe, or life as we know it, was not always, the God "theory" sounds more likely to me.

Originally posted by spamandham
It is a legitimate hypothesis for those who haven't examined it closely. Until you get into the details, it seems reasonable.

Problem is, these 'details' are manmade concepts. Of course they fall apart under scrutiny... in order for man to come up with ideas, these ideas must have a source. When the 'source' is an intangible, obviously the whole story crumbles. But, as I said before, the possibility of some form of life existing in somestate so far beyond our ability to perceive, bypasses these details, and words themselves. It is possible, one day, for our species to reach a technological level to detect such a race, although I highly doubt we would ever be able to interact without their say so.
I am simply stating that the idea of God is manmade. But, it is entirely possible that what some here describe as a god is really just another form of life. To deny the existance of life greater than ourselves is a rather paradoxical statement is it not?

The big question is how can we be the only intelligent creatures in the entire universe? How can people believe that? Billions of other planets out there, and the same process that created life on earth had to happen else where in my opinion...

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
The big question is how can we be the only intelligent creatures in the entire universe? How can people believe that? Billions of other planets out there, and the same process that created life on earth had to happen else where in my opinion...

A bit off topic. I think by now the majority of people believe there is other life out there. The only people that really don't are very religious people, very ignorant people or very scared people which conviently tend to be all the same people.

I'm going to clarify before people get the wrong idea. I don't mean religious people are ignorant. I'm talking about the people who won't accept something that is obviously a reality (life on other planets) just because their religion doesn't have an answer for it. It is like throwing away what you believe in order to be a part of what others want you to believe.

[edit on 3-7-2005 by xxblackoctoberxx]

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxxI'm talking about the people who won't accept something that is obviously a reality (life on other planets) just because their religion doesn't have an answer for it. It is like throwing away what you believe in order to be a part of what others want you to believe.

Interesting take on "obvious reality". You may want to re evaluate that in context with "throwing away what you believe in order to be a part of what others want you to believe".

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
I'm going to clarify before people get the wrong idea. I don't mean religious people are ignorant. I'm talking about the people who won't accept something that is obviously a reality (life on other planets) just because their religion doesn't have an answer for it.

Yes, speaking of ignorant people...

Since when has conclusive proof of life on other planets surfaced? I'm a bit confused by your wording: "obviously a reality". Perhaps you could enlighten those of us who do not believe in life elsewhere in the universe by submitting the 'obvious' proof that you have (note: the martian astroid is not conclusive proof).

It's nice to see you take a cheap shot at religion, but unless you do in fact have that conclusive proof of life elsewhere in the universe, isn't this just an attack on your own belief structure?


Thanks. Waiting anxiously for the evidence...


[EDIT]: beat me to it yeahright

[edit on 4-7-2005 by backtoreality]

if the individual is truly dedicated to keeping an open mind about the unknown (Cosmos), he/she will sooner or later realize that religion, however skewed it may seem, is just as logically sound, if not moreso than science.

the original question to this thread, how can the universe just 'be'?

the answer is not only religious, but probably the most fundemental answer we could ever boil it down to. The answer IS God.

The great I Am. the beautiful, unexplainable, simple fact that the universe *is* As science explains, matter cannot be created or destroyed, and we are left with a paradox. Everything that could ever happen, is happening right now. The inverse of nothing, everything. THE UNIVERSE IS.

Think of it like this -there could be absense, a void, nothing ever, or there could 'be'. Just simply be.

The very fact that anything exists anywhere boils it right back to God. And in all our years of recorded history, development - not one scientific theory better explains the cosmos than that.

When you realize eternity cannot be broken you will realize how very basic God is. Everything you have ever encountered is testament of God. The simple fact; I am.

there is no greater absolute statement then "I am."



[edit on 5-7-2005 by lost]

That works for you but I don't believe in god. When I said obvious I mean, as it has been said plenty of times, it is really ignorant to believe we are the only life out of everything ever. It is ignorant and arrogant and with things like the Drake equation I think it is an obvious reality. God is not the answer to the question. God seems like more of an easy way out. "Can't figure it out? Must be god's work." Maybe what we think to know as right (like you can't create something out of nothing) is wrong and we just haven't found any instances where it has been the case. I don't actually believe that but i'm just saying I think we should try and find real answers rather than pinning the answer to a make believe source.

well i dont really know an answer.. i just so far am trying to get a little comprehension of nothing.. have you ever seen the believer?

Originally posted by bannonyoung
well i dont really know an answer.. i just so far am trying to get a little comprehension of nothing.. have you ever seen the believer?

yes i have actually, it was a pretty good movie too
either way.. what about it?

well i dont want to spoil the movie so ill do this




















in the end when hes just climbing all the staircases.. like.. picture that being you.. and just knowing that you have to keep straining and walking.. and there is no top.. and the nlike.. picture giving up... and then like going out one of the doors on the sides and just leading to another staircase.. maybe the same one.. and each door its the same staircase.. just your coming out the other side or somthing.. and eventually you would give up.. there would be no floor numbers so you dont know if your high or low.. and youd just sit on the stairs and like.. whistle.. and like sing.. and sleep.. but picture knowing youre doing that forever.. like.. you could sleep for 12 hours and wake up but like it doesnt matter.. its not another day.. its forever.. theres no time.. what would you do.. to occupy yourself.. knowing youre going to be there forever.........
































and that is nothing.. haha for me that helps me try to comprehend it.. after a while.. i stop thinking about it because it just gets to me

Ok.. haha. I still don't get what you are trying to say with that. Are you trying to find a way to comprehend infiniteness? Or the nothingness before the universe? or what.

haha yeah like.. the nothing ness is that eternity feeling but.. with nothing to think about.. so like everything i just said.. try to feel that feeling.. but with nothing haha

haha i just made this whole topic even more confusing