Is the future preordained?

I tried using the search feature but no topic came up resembling mine, so apologies if this has been said before but...


Do you think the future is already set? Do we really have any control over our destiny?

I find this topic interesting because if the future has been planned out, then nothing we do can alter it which means we don't have any control over our destiny which means we are doomed to follow a path that we may not like. Our fate lies at the hands of some cosmic entity or divine plan.

Many people believe the end times are coming and people have even set dates for when these events will happen. I was wondering if it is possible for humanity to change their destiny, to divert this doomsday and alter this linear road.

I'm not sure how to describe my feelings on this subject, but hopefully you've understood my message.

Thats like asking...why do we breathe 02 istead of Co2. No one can answer it.

A movie that asks the exact same question is "Donnie Darko" go and rent it...or download it.

You wont get answers...but its a decent watch.

That was a great movie.

I don't think there are real answers to the question. Even with Christianity we are taught that God has a plan thus you would think life is pre-ordained but then you have that whole freewill issue. There are somethings we will never know until we die.

"the messenger is nothing"

heard that in a movie once.

the only way it is not decided for us is if we can at least get a message to ourselves letting us know how we mess up.

if any such device existed, though, i'm sure no army of the world that possessed it could loose a battle.

huh, sounds familiar.

"it is said any army possessing it could not loose a battle"

what is the first thing that the most powerful nations on earth go after in the first attack? Communication.

"communication is key"

what kind of device could ensure an army would never loose a battle or be out-flanked?

one that enabled them to send themselves a message back in time to before they got out-flanked, or were loosing a battle.

it would probably throw off some electricity or lightning in the process, perhaps.

ark?

just a thought.

we do have free will. some just choose to not really excersize that right.


[edit on 19/6/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

I don't think there is a set path for humans. The way we are moving now, there is. But a person chooses his own path.

If a person is trying hard to become an actor, he won't become a doctor.

-Chris

I do think we have some control in the path we take in life but there are outside events beyond our control that influence our next choice. Sometimes those events may lead us to step off an original path and onto another one. In that sense it is sort of like walking through a mine field. You start on a path and you alter that path as needed based on what you see in your way.

I also think you can be whatever you want and that dream should never be lost if possible. Just because you may not actually achieve it does not mean you should give up trying.

Well I've had a couple of astrology readings and to be honest I've been shocked at how accurate they've been - not just the personality readings but what they say has happened in the past and is to come in the future. Judging by that I would say that the future is 90% set the variation coming from how other peoples lives and unforseen events can affect your own plus a small percentage of free will whereby if you know what lies ahead you can do your damnest to try and change things to circumvent the future written for you.

I've heard it explained like this before. Say you are on a cruise boat. You can do many things on this boat. You can go for a swim, eat lunch, or stay in bed all day. What you do on this boat is entirely up to you. You control how you spend you time on this vacation. Now the direction of the boat is another matter. You can not change the course of the boat, or stop it, or make it go backward. This boat has a destination that you can not change.

So the answer to your question depends. Are you focusing on the boat or the possible things you can do on this boat?

Originally posted by SilverDeath

I find this topic interesting because if the future has been planned out, then nothing we do can alter it which means we don't have any control over our destiny which means we are doomed to follow a path that we may not like. Our fate lies at the hands of some cosmic entity or divine plan.

Many people believe the end times are coming and people have even set dates for when these events will happen. I was wondering if it is possible for humanity to change their destiny, to divert this doomsday and alter this linear road.

I hope I can have this come across like I mean it.

First there is a God who knows exactly what is going to happen in the future based upon every decicsion mankind makes(and could make).

Now does that mean we people have no choice and are destined for a certain future and that's it, NO. It means God knows EVERYTHING.

In the Bible God was going to bring judgement upon the people of Ninevah and Jonah was to go and inform the people of this city about this coming Judgement. He didn't want to do it but eventually did and because the people sincerely and truly repented, God did not bring the judgement to that city at that time. The judgement was delayed for 120 more years. The people of this city changed their hearts and asked God not to do this. And God did change the future and delay the judgement. He knew He would do this.

Now does this mean that God did not know these people would repent, NO. God knows EVERYTHING. He knew they were going to and He altered the future. God was in agreement with the city when He saw them repent and cry out to Him. God didn't change during this situation, the people of the city of Ninevah did. They saw their wickedness and believed there was a God in heaven who hears prayers. God took the city down a different path, one that was already known by Him that He would do, but one that literally was different then what they would have experienced before their repentance.

Now another example. David committed adultery with Bathsheba and then had her husband murdered. God let David know that the child conceived in this affair would die. The child got sick and David fasted and prayed that God would spare the child. God still took the child's life and took the child to heaven. God did not change the future as David wanted, but God still is in charge when bad times come also.

Now bring that home to us living now. All of us are destined for hell and seperation from God. But God knowing we could not save ourself came in Jesus Christ and provided a change in that destiny. Let's say someone is a 33 year old man or woman who has never accepted Christ's payment for their sin. It's June 19, 2005. That person is going to hell and seperation from God because of sin. Tomorrow June 20th that person is told about Jesus Christ and they truly believe in His payment for their sin. They made a choice and because of that choice God will alter their eternal future and can even alter things in the here and now. They are now going to live with God forever throughout all eternity.

No one has to go to hell, the way of escape has been made. We have a CHOICE to make that can make a change in the direction we are headed. That choice is already known by God, but it's not at all that God chooses to send anyone to hell, people choose hell themself.



[edit on 19-6-2005 by dbrandt]

Hmmm interesting insight, thanks I think I understand how life works a bit better now

A good way to look at it is...

If time travel existed then it would mean that the present, as we know it, is the end result of any and all time travel that has occured and will occur. So in essence, if time travel did exist, than the future (as well as the past) is preordained.

Originally posted by Simulacra
A good way to look at it is...

If time travel existed then it would mean that the present, as we know it, is the end result of any and all time travel that has occured and will occur. So in essence, if time travel did exist, than the future (as well as the past) is preordained.

I don't know if I agree with this because I'm not getting the point. Could you rephrase it a little so my brain can catch up. Thanks

I prefer to think there may be many different alternate realities or some might say parallel dimensions. Which path you choose to follow will decide what reality you experience. I see this as free will to choose the path you want to follow. Now if too many people on your boat choose to follow one path, you won't have a choice but to go along for the ride. Once your boat has gone down that road, it may no longer be able to turn back. I suppose a boat could be a nation or state. Individual choices might include voting or persuading others to speak for a cause which might persuade others to support your cause.

I believe a recent theorum in quantum physics said that time is a set thing, it can not be changed, which interestingly enough makes time travel impossible.

Originally posted by iori_komei
I believe a recent theorum in quantum physics said that time is a set thing, it can not be changed, which interestingly enough makes time travel impossible.

The way I read it, it actually makes time travel more possible (removes the paradox of altering the present by travelling to the past).

Simulacra said pretty much the same thing. Our present is the end result of everything that occured in the past, including influence by any time travellers if they exist anytime in the future.

Of course if you wake up one morning to a gorgeous wife and perfect children, and your groundskeepers and domestic staff tell you it's raining duff beer and donuts again, the scientists could be wrong.

Depends on what religion and what subgroup you belong to.

Most don't think the future is preordained, most don't believe the ultra-Christian end-times scenario. I don't, either. The universe makes NO sense if you look at it as "fulfilling the desires of a Christian (or Jewish, for that matter) deity."

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Simulacra
A good way to look at it is...

If time travel existed then it would mean that the present, as we know it, is the end result of any and all time travel that has occured and will occur. So in essence, if time travel did exist, than the future (as well as the past) is preordained.

I don't know if I agree with this because I'm not getting the point. Could you rephrase it a little so my brain can catch up. Thanks

Picture it like this...

Time traveller A goes back to the beginning of World War 2 and tries to aid Hitler in the War.
Time Traveller B goes back and time and tries to prevent Hitler from winning the war.
Time Traveller C goes back and tries to aid Time Traveller A
Time Traveller D goes back and tries to thrwart the efforts of Time Traveller C

...etc.

So pretty much all that could have possibly happened in time travelling has already has happened.

Because we are existing in time at the moment (this does not take into factor multiple-timelines)

The way I read it, it actually makes time travel more possible (removes the paradox of altering the present by travelling to the past).

True, it does remove the paradoxi, but if you can not change anything in the past, than you could not travel to it for the following reasons;

1. You'd be adding more matter.
2. You would displace air molecules (and smaller things)/ yo'df be using things that had not been used ie air.

I don't know if this site helps out with this question, but it might:Is the Future Preordained?