What's The Point?

Originally Written By The Newsboys
Didn't help solve anything
Every time we shout our rights out
We get all grouchy and gray

Why do people get so upset with the exchange of ideas? While it happens a lot here on ATS, it is definately not exclusive to discussions here. Why do people get so upset when you don't come around to their political or religious ideology that they start to take it personally and begin throwing insults or something along those lines?

I can understand this taking place in the real world, many people are afraid of new or different ideas, or get afraid when they realize they've embarked into territory the person they're debating against knows a lot more about the subject, and tend to lash out instead of taking the blow to the chin. Let's face it, you can lose a debate and still believe you were right; that doesn't make the other person bad, though.

However, we at ATS are supposed to be seeking information that doesn't fit into our little worlds. We're looking to the bizarre, unusual, and unexpected for more information explaining this crazy, mixed up world to us. There is a full spectrum of people, from those who will believe anything you tell them to those who will dismiss everything they read here as hoax; there are people of every political and religious background who frequently post on here. Yet, when someone disagrees with something we hold as truth, we're shocked someone can be "that ignorant" as to not agree with your interpretation of events and facts.

Why all this anger? I've really gotten into it with folks on this site when it comes to religion and politics. I know what I believe, am not ashamed of it, and have done a lot of research to come to believe what I currently do. Many others here have the same background on their opinions, but they don't sync with my own. As a result, we debate. However, when the debate is over, I have no problem with the individual with whom I was exchanging ideas. If they resort to insults I'll probably lose respect for them, but for the most part the people here on ATS I respect most, though, again, they disagree with me, wouldn't resort to that style of debate. Yet, I've gotten the impression over the past couple of years that some people have distinctly grown to not like me. I've also seen posts directed towards others whose opinion is vastly different than their own, say, in essence, they hate that person for their politics.

Folks, there's a lot more to people than just politics. Let's get into the rabid debates, but don't let it get personal. It's that person's take on the events of the world you have a problem with, not that person themselves. Hate the idea, love the idea-er

I have to make the leap here that you sat down and wrote this because you were upset over a closed post falsely attributing a piece of e-mail spam to George Carlin.

If that's the case, you're wrong here...

Originally posted by junglejake
However, we at ATS are supposed to be seeking information that doesn't fit into our little worlds.

is THE world, and our little corner of it DENIES that kind of ignorance.

Why do we close debunked spam?

1) It's spam.
2) It's debunked.

If I'm wrong and this has nothing to do with that or the U2U you just sent, then this is an excellent original contribution JungleJake and I share your sentiments.

It's not personal, it's the Internet.

JJ,
Although this is an area where we supposed to be exchanging ideas and seek information, when it comes down to some topics such as religion belief or non-beleif, political ideologies etc. that hit a person home, it "feels" the same here as it would in the real world.
The problem that, in my opinion, is that since people are essentially anonymous here, they feel that they can more easily express their more basis gut reactions. They feel that they can do this because what is the most that can happen to them? Get banned? Ok, get another email address and re-apply for membership.
Can they do this on their own turf? Around the people that they know? Around their families? I do not think so.

But again, to that point, what's the point? If you're going to just start throwing personal insults at people, what purpose is it serving? I don't know about y'all, but if I'm debating with someone, and they're making perfect sense and I'm starting to go along with what they're saying, but then I ask a question and they respond, "You're an idiot, I can't believe you don't know that" or something along those lines, boom, arguement forgotten, focus on the fact they resorted to insult, and everything they had done to convince me I was wrong is for naught. Why would they do it, because they can get away with it? Then go be a troll on some videogame and flame noobies or something. You're not going to convince anyone they're wrong and you're right by calling them names. If anything, you're going to hurt your own arguement and views in that person's mind far more than if you just walked away.

Your observations are like fertalizer to me. The crap that spews from your mouth only strengthens my position

Originally posted by RANT
I have to make the leap here that you sat down and wrote this because you were upset over a closed post falsely attributing a piece of e-mail spam to George Carlin.

If that's the case, you're wrong here...

Originally posted by junglejake
However, we at ATS are supposed to be seeking information that doesn't fit into our little worlds.

is THE world, and our little corner of it DENIES that kind of ignorance.

Why do we close debunked spam?

1) It's spam.
2) It's debunked.

If I'm wrong and this has nothing to do with that or the U2U you just sent, then this is an excellent original contribution JungleJake and I share your sentiments.

It's not personal, it's the Internet.

Actually, it isn't. That thread was going to show up pending some kind, any kind of response from you or someone else. I was going to wait to judge, in case it was an accident or there was a different reason beyond the bibliography being incorrect. Guess there wasn't.

I look forward to your pseudo-subtle insults in the future, Rant!

Too, too, true.
But once someone allows emotion to overrun their sensibilities, they no longer care about how they sound how they destroy the basis of any stance or information that they have presented or present in the future.
All that counts is the emotion of the moment.
Then once they calm down (if they do, I have my doubts on some) then they do not like to face the results of their flaming so, they continue but now targeting others.

Hey, you seen me point that oout on a few threads to both members as well as some of those on high. Did it make a difference? Yes, to date one person has recanted, and we are able to debate issues but also know that we agree to disagree.

I actually have a friend who was completely taken aback when we had a debate. He had just come home after graduating college and came over to my place. In the 4 years we were away from eachother, I found Christ and (before that) had become a die hard conservative through my sudden interest in politics. He, at the same time, became a bleeding heart liberal and a unitarian.

Somehow, politics came up (for those of you who know me in real life, you're shocked, I know ) and we really got into it. Raised voices, "can I have a chance to finish my point"s being thrown all over the place, etc. You know, a good debate by two people equally educated but polar opposites in their interpretation of said education. After about an hour and a half, I tried to sip from my empty beer for the fourth or fifth time.

Finally, I got up and asked him if he wanted a beer. He seemed like he was completely sidetracked, and said "sure" as though in a dream. I asked him if he'd join me outside because I wanted a smokey treat, he came out there, and we started talking about this, that and the other thing, politics completely forgotten.

That was about 5 years ago. Just last year, I was talking with him. He had said that, when we first started talking and he found out I was a conservative Bible thumper, that our friendship was over. However, the completely simple, curtious effort of grabbing him a beer helped him to see that, hey, it's only politics.

One really cool thing about him, too, which is unique among my friends is that we can just say to one another, "no politics", and the other drops it immediately. Let's face it, there are days where you're not the cheeriest person in the world, and talking politics with someone you know disagrees with you on everything is only going to piss you off. However, I have said that to a few other friends, a couple of aunts, and some other folks, too, and they seem to take it as the green light to get a reaction out of me. It's like you have to read The Art Of War just to be friends with some of them: you can't let them see your weakness or they will exploit it.

So there are exceptions to this rule. I'm blessed in that my best friend and I both recognize it as only being politics, not a life and death issue. If we didn't, there is no way we'd be able to be in the same room with one another for more than 5 minutes!

Originally posted by junglejakeWhy do people get so upset with the exchange of ideas? While it happens a lot here on ATS, it is definately not exclusive to discussions here. Why do people get so upset when you don't come around to their political or religious ideology that they start to take it personally and begin throwing insults or something along those lines?

Well, that's the 64,000 Dollar Question ain't it, JungleJake? Message Boards are frenquently little more than a school yard sandbox where folks come to play -- some in earnest and others just to have fun and others to be the school yard bully they were (or perhaps weren't) in their youth. I've been sitting in this little corner of the sandbox of mine since it was built scooting my little toy truck (i.e., my "historical Yeshua" theory) back and forward asking the odd passerby if they'd like to see it and/or asked 'em to sit down and play and what's happened?

Been ignored; been laughed at for having such a stupid truck; been kicked in the face with sand; had a few, "Mine's better than yours!" shouted at me; had a few "That's neat!" tossed my way - some ham-handed and others more serious; had a few offers to trade toys; had it stolen out from under me once or twice; etc., etc., etc. You know.... Typical sandbox activity. Kids in a sandbox.... What else can I say?

I will say this though.... I hate the fact that so many folks hide behind a cloak of anonymity, especially the trolls. IMO, trolling ought to be a capital offense ... or ... at the very least ... issue licenses and revoke the rights of offenders, since many moderators don't (or can't) always do their job effectively. I do understand why so many women want to remain hidden. The Internet Horn-Dogs give them so much crap.... The things women put up with from us men folks. :shk: Anyway.... Them's my two cents worth!

[edit on 14-6-2005 by smadewell]