Well, they killed her....

Father gave his son advice:

"PALM BEACH, Aruba (CNN) -- An Aruban judge briefly held in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager told his son -- who is still in police custody -- that without a body police would have no case, the island's chief prosecutor said Wednesday..."


www.cnn.com...


Man I hope they nail these little turds. This goes deep my friends. I smell cover up, or at the least some heavy mitigation.



[edit on 30-6-2005 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by Lanotom
What about a place called New Ark or Newark? Of course when I google Newark and Aruba I get airline sites.

Yep. There's no Newark or New Ark in Aruba. You'll only see that on the departure screens at the airport.

I have searched for Newark, Newark Neterlands, Newark Dutch and found nada.

About the Aruban government: I have posted a link at the bottom that will lead you to the CIA World Fact Book that describes the legal system very briefly. It explains that the Dutch civil law system incorporates French penal theory. Does anyone know what the French penal theory means?

www.cia.gov...

Originally posted by mm77
Does anyone know what the French penal theory means?

If it doesn't mean high voltage shooting through father and son, I don't want to know about it.

They should re-open Devil's Island just for these two.

Peace

[edit on 30-6-2005 by Dr Love]

Skippytjc, I've read that article too. It was on CNN early this morning. Despite that I already think that Joran did it, I do think that there is room for doubt that Paulus was giving those young men advice. The reason why I think this is because Paulus Van der Sloot could have been doing like he said- "generally" speculating about the fact that without a body, there would be no case. Haven't any of you spoken generally about something without it actually pertaining to you? I know I have. The only grounds for a jury to convict his son of murder or anyone else is to have DNA evidence or a non-coerced confession. That's U.S. criminal justice. I don't know about the Dutch.

(snip)

The reason why I think this is because Paulus Van der Sloot could have been doing like he said- "generally" speculating about the fact that without a body, there would be no case. Haven't any of you spoken generally about something without it actually pertaining to you? I know I have. The only grounds for a jury to convict his son of murder or anyone else is to have DNA evidence or a non-coerced confession. That's U.S. criminal justice. I don't know about the Dutch.

Thomas Capano was convicted of murder...without a body, without a murder weapon and certainly without a confession and not enough DNA to establish murder (granted, his brother testified against him, but that's besides the point ). Stranger things have happened.

I agree though - it's very easy to say things and have them taken out of context....most of us will have done similar things in the past. Said something, a hypothetical perhaps, and then had it twisted out of context.

We humans do that. It serves our individual agendas very well, sadly.

My beef is there are way many oddities regarding the case:

#1 The teens stories have changed.
#2 An official statement saying one of the teens admitted it and would lead investigators to the body, then an abrupt recant of the story.
#3 The main suspects father is a Judge and has apparently given the kids advice.
#4 The refusal of the Arabian government to allow outside law agency help. Even help from the USA with a 100 times the investigational resources, and the country in which the victim WAS a citizen.

I wouldn’t think more of this than any other missing person case if it wasn’t for all these factors. Heck, if there was just one of these factors present I would have suspicions, but all 4?

Something fishy is going down in Aruba.

Read a post of mine here:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by skippytjc
My beef is there are way many oddities regarding the case:

#1 The teens stories have changed.

Yeah, that's true. But their stories could still change even if it was just an accident that happened there. I think that a majority of kids, guilty or not guilty would tell different stories at different times in such a case.

#2 An official statement saying one of the teens admitted it and would lead investigators to the body, then an abrupt recant of the story.

The official statement never happened. IMO it was conjured up by the media.

#3 The main suspects father is a Judge and has apparently given the kids advice.

He's not a judge, he's an apprentice/trainee to become a judge. He hasn't succeded as yet (or ever) to become one.

#4 The refusal of the Arabian government to allow outside law agency help. Even help from the USA with a 100 times the investigational resources, and the country in which the victim WAS a citizen.

They have allowed the FBI to help with the search and some of the investigation. Btw... Without a valid work permit they're not allowed to work here anyway. They're here on invitation.

Something fishy is going down in Aruba.

We read more details in the newspaper here than those outside of Aruba. I still think they have to start questioning the mother and her family. And I also have some questions.

1. Why did everyone (the students and the chaperones) go back to Alabama on the airplane without having one chaperone stay back to at least help for the search for Natalee.

2. Why haven't they been questioned after their arrival back in the U.S.. If the FBI really has 100 times the investigative sources then why haven't they taken every possible scenario into consideration in this case? She may have run away, but still nobody takes that into consideration.

3. Referring to the last part of number 2, why haven't they questioned Natalee's family for any possible problems or situations in the family? All we have is some account on CNN of her being the perfect, but naive kid. And we, the public eat it up without thinking twice about it.

There are certain possible conspiracies in this case, but it could be coming from both sides, and not just one.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
1. Why did everyone (the students and the chaperones) go back to Alabama on the airplane without having one chaperone stay back to at least help for the search for Natalee.

Mainly because they're not law enforcement. Those people have been ruled out as suspects already and don't know anything anyways. What good could they possibly do?

2. Why haven't they been questioned after their arrival back in the U.S.. If the FBI really has 100 times the investigative sources then why haven't they taken every possible scenario into consideration in this case? She may have run away, but still nobody takes that into consideration.

First of all because none of them are suspects and second of all who says the FBI hasn't? "She may have run away".........Bandit, the only person running away here is the old man. Nobody takes it in to consideration because the investigators have seen enough to know what time it is. These people are suspects for a reason. Innocent people don't act in such an evasive manner. Am I missing something here? How is this not readily apparent to the citizens of Aruba?

3. Referring to the last part of number 2, why haven't they questioned Natalee's family for any possible problems or situations in the family? All we have is some account on CNN of her being the perfect, but naive kid. And we, the public eat it up without thinking twice about it.

Because family problems aren't suspected. How do you know they didn't question her family regarding that anyways?

There are certain possible conspiracies in this case, but it could be coming from both sides, and not just one.

Uhhhhh.......no sir. Bandit, I've read a lot of your posts and you seem to be an intelligent guy. Your counter arguments don't hold water and I think you know it. It's almost like you're somehow personally offended by this whole thing. Why you would be I have no idea.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
Mainly because they're not law enforcement. Those people have been ruled out as suspects already and don't know anything anyways. What good could they possibly do?

I know they have been ruled out as suspects, but they were the ones with her during her days on Aruba. They still can give vital information over the case, especially about her behavious during those days.

First of all because none of them are suspects and second of all who says the FBI hasn't? "She may have run away".........Bandit, the only person running away here is the old man. Nobody takes it in to consideration because the investigators have seen enough to know what time it is. These people are suspects for a reason. Innocent people don't act in such an evasive manner. Am I missing something here? How is this not readily apparent to the citizens of Aruba?

Of course those people are suspect for a reason and that's why they are being detained. But if there is no further evidence about their involvement in the whole case, and I mean incriminating evidence... They have to be released.

Because family problems aren't suspected. How do you know they didn't question her family regarding that anyways?

In such an investigation you should look in every possibility. It would be a shame to be on the wrong track for weeks or months. And yeah, the FBI may have questioned the mom already, but I'm not sure.

Uhhhhh.......no sir. Bandit, I've read a lot of your posts and you seem to be an intelligent guy. Your counter arguments don't hold water and I think you know it. It's almost like you're somehow personally offended by this whole thing. Why you would be I have no idea.

The problem here is that personally, IMO we experience more sides of the story than you in the U.S.. I've heard a lot of second hand accounts from different people who have seen these people and their behaviour that points to something being very strange, and not beneficial to the Holloway family. Of course I know that they're rumours, and the chance is that they can be wrong. But they are pretty credible to me and they are from different sources.

And from the police officer who told me that they're all tired of the case, I can make a good guess that they want to get the case solved ASAP. In fact, the urgency for this case to be solved is here greater than in the U.S.. Everybody involved just wants to go back to their regular lives and work, so they are working as hard as they can to finish this, and to solve a missing or possible murder case.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

So when are we going to spam the internet with anti-USA information because of the THOUSANDS of missing cases there? Don't be so ridiculous and hypocrite.

Comparing Aruba to the U.S. is quite a joke; the U.S. is enormous, Aruba might compare more to a state in the U.S. or a City even. Regardless, if my child was killed in some city in the US & it looked like it was being covered up then initially in my anger & distress I would probably lash out and do everything in my power & within the law to hurt them back - that is pretty average human behavior. After that I would probably do whatever I could to educate others so the same did not happen to them or their children. That means teaching them to stay away from certain places or modifying certain behaviors - so that others can learn from this tragedy.

You’re only interested in protecting your own turf and I'm not the hypocrite - look in the mirror. I have absolutely no problem with telling the truth about a place whether it's good or bad. If there were some destination in the US that had that type of thing going on & it made the media then I would feel exactly the same way about that place.

When there were numerous carjacking of tourist in Florida, especially the one dragged through the media about the German tourist who were robbed and killed. That area was hurt economically & forced to straighten up its act or continue to suffer the losses of tourist visiting, the dollars they spend & the jobs they support. I'm sure it took allot of changes in policing, as well many dollars spent on marketing to change the perception of those thinking about choosing Florida as a vacation destination.

There are many bad places in the U.S. & most people know where these places are & they avoid them. Every once and awhile we get a reminder in the news & we check that box. Right now many are checking that box with Aruba in front of it – not everyone but some nonetheless.

You never know depending on how the story turns out the attention Aruba is getting might turn around and be good, but currently it's image is clearly taking a beating.


[edit on 30-6-2005 by outsider]

Originally posted by outsider
Comparing Aruba to the U.S. is quite a joke; the U.S. is enormous, Aruba might compare more to a state in the U.S. or a City even.

You’re only interested in protecting your own turf and I'm not the hypocrite - look in the mirror. I have absolutely no problem with telling the truth about a place whether it's good or bad. If there were some destination in the US that had that type of thing going on & it made the media then I would feel exactly the same way about that place.

You never know depending on how the story turns out the attention Aruba is getting might turn around and be good, but currently it's image is clearly taking a beating.

You have misunderstood me partially here. Of course I am protecting my own turf, who wouldn't. But I am protecting it against speculations (of conspiracy within the Arubian authority) that are not true. And of course I have to mention the people lost in the U.S., and especially those lost in Alabama only. Where is the media in those cases? Where is all the effort for those?

Skippytjc~ I agree that something fishy is going on in Aruba. We know that Joran had something to do with her death. Actions speak louder than words. His actions for the past month have screamed guilty.

Here's something else that I found: The Netherlands is a
major European producer of ecstasy, illicit amphetamines, and other synthetic drugs; major source of US-bound ecstasy; large financial sector vulnerable to money laundering.

I once passed through Holland on my way to Ukraine. Holland is thick with teen prostitution and ecstasy. Little girls are hooked on drugs and exploited sexually. I have never been anywhere where that goes on or at least is so apparent.

"quote: Originally posted by TheBandit795
1. Why did everyone (the students and the chaperones) go back to Alabama on the airplane without having one chaperone stay back to at least help for the search for Natalee."

Someone did stay back in Aruba. It was the woman who led the trip.

Also...Who goes to Mexico for vacation when it is more dangerous than the Caribbean? I'm sure that some here do. You don't take your kids. Neither do you break the law because in Mexico they would lock you up and throw away the key. I'm sure that most people who travel to a exotic place don't worry about security because all they want is to party.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Of course I am protecting my own turf, who wouldn't. But I am protecting it against speculations (of conspiracy within the Arubian authority) that are not true. And of course I have to mention the people lost in the U.S., and especially those lost in Alabama only. Where is the media in those cases? Where is all the effort for those?

I understand your point Bandit, but I guess what I was just suggesting you try to look at it from the otherside too. Right now its only a conspiracy and it will quickly die unless something more comes out to feed it.

There's many things that happen that don't become news, but much of that depends on how much noise the family makes. Sort of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" so to speak. Many young women dissappear all the time & many are found dead, but when it happens to one whose family has resources & uses them - as we see here it often becomes a media frenzy. No doubt if she came from a poor family & was working as a hooker, none of us would never know this happened.

More Lies from Aruba:

www.cnn.com...

"PALM BEACH, Aruba (CNN) -- A disc jockey who spent 10 days in jail after being arrested and questioned about a missing American teenager admits he lied to Aruban police to protect one of the suspects in custody..."

I was thinking about this last night. Some people have already mentioned the possibility that she was sold or abducted in to prostitution. While I can't really understand the lack of a heart and a soul it would require to 'take' another human being's life away from them against their will and make them your own, I do believe that it happens.

I'm not saying I think it happened this way, I'm just throwing out another what-if. What if she was deliberately drugged so she could be lured away from the bar and handed over to a person or persons who then took over from there. Whether it be for prostitution or whatever, these people saw a cute little naive gem lacking any real supervision from a chaperon and they struck while the iron was hot. One has to ask themselves how this kind of thing usually happens. Are they usually kidnapped at gunpoint? I doubt it, that would cause too much comotion. It has to be a quiet way with as few people involved as possible. Drugging the victim would obviously incapacitate them enough where they could be handled and manipulated without being able to resist. By the time they get to where they are going, maybe halfway across the world, they're frightened and alone and just don't want to be hurt. They will do whatever they are told in order to stay alive.

She would probably be better off dead than to have to live in a hell on Earth like that.

Peace

[edit on 1-7-2005 by Dr Love]

Natalee Hollway's mother is urging anyone who wishes to help to write a brief letter to the Ambassor of the Netherlands. It goes like this:

His Excellency, Boudewijn Johannes van Eenennaam, Ambassador of the Kingdom of the Netherlands to the U.S.,

America wants to encourage you to do all you can to help find Natalee Holloway by supporting the use of state of the art technology in the investigation, and continuing to lend other technical support to the effort. We thank you very much for your help and your concern.

You can sen this to an address located at the Embassy website: www.netherlands-embassy.org/article.asp?articleef=AR00000109EN

Well they have announced that the guys held are being charged with murder.

They said they were charged since taken in custody but kept it quiet to protect the parents.