NEWS: UK Satellite Toll Plan To Make Drivers Pay By The Mile

UK Transportation Secretary Alistair Darling has announced a plan which would ultimately involve tracking all automobile and truck traffic on roads within the country as part of a scheme to levy taxes on a per-mile basis.



Advocates may point out that per-mile taxation is the fairest way to levy road taxes, tout projected reductions in traffic congestion and cite the benefits of mandatory vehicle tracking for fighting crime.

Critics may express concern over the cost of implementing the technology as well as its potential for civil liberty abuses.

Effectively, this scheme would give the government the ability to pinpoint the location of every vehicle in the nation at any time.

What do you think of this idea?

[edit on 6/5/2005 by Majic]

As Dante warned about hell: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

This kind of thing is absolutely the worst, the most retrograde middle ages kind of policy. The Secretary if in America in the 1800s century would be tarred, feathered, and run out of town. Nowadays the education process is so totally dumbed down, that no one cares about such tyranny and usurpations.

Such policies show nations in decline. Just kiss the UK goodbye as a free country totally after this combination of Merchantilism, Fascism, and feudalism with this computer assisted national suicide plan. Oh so it cost money every mile you drive, then you are worse than a slave in chains.

[edit on 5-6-2005 by SkipShipman]

I wonder if the plans include a HUGE reduction in the duty on fuel and scrapping the current vehicle taxation?
I spend 2 hours travelling to and from work everyday using 2 major motorways so would be penalised just for having to travel to work.
As for the ability to pinpoint any vehicle in the country, where I go is my business and nobody elses.
We already have, according to European data, the safest roads in Europe but are subjected to the most draconian restrictions.

Thing with these systems is, in the end, the common citizen is the one paying the bills.

Company's will get grand rebates on the system, free mileage quota and mileage benifits for their employees and clientel.

Apart from that, as a way to fight crime, yeah right ... professional car thieves rig "imposible to rig" Mercedes cars in a mater of seconds and will most likely have no problem at all with disabling or using jammers on the GPS trackers.

They'll catch some dumb uninformed thieves and criminals with it maybe, but the ones that do the most damage, steal the most value's and have the greatest wrapsheets will bypass these systems in their sleep.

What happend to good old police work hu?

this is a way to restrict travel. just like sales taxes or consumption taxes are regressive. this forces anyone who wants to travel to either have their car tracked or go to airplane travel. now rich people can travel farther than poor people.

and will they need travel insurance now, and will the rates be higher for people with tickets , for certain age groups, for certain areas?

this is as bad as chipping someone.

this is as bad as chipping someone.

This is actually part B of chipping everyone. Won't take the chip? Fine, everytime you drive your car we'll know where you are anyway. Won't drive a car? Fine, that means you'll be at home right where we like you.

You won't be able to use public transport without your national RFID card/chip, you won't be able to keep a bank account, own property, enter public buildings, vote, buy groceries, have a telephone, electric or gas services, and the biggie - employment.

If you don't take the chip, your only choice will be to live life as a criminal when your only crime was not accepting the chip.

UK citizens should fight this plan fiercely. Darling & advocates have decided to financially penalize citizens liberty to travel freely within their land.

It is gaining momentum here in the US too. To me, an insidious pattern is emerging here. At first regarding civilian affairs, global positioning system (gps) devices for automatic vehicle location (avl) were creepily being used to benefit car rental agencies & insurance companies in asset tracking, then gps/avl devices are lauded by lawmakers to monitor sex offenders & violent parolees as a possible deterrent to recidivism, which is rightfully seen and quickly sold as a positive step in a society experiencing daily Amber alerts with tragic endings. So the initial tracking systems get set up and put in place under the auspices of crime-prevention of repeat offenders - fine.

Then, once again under the pretense of child safety the devices are implemented to monitor school bus activities and individual students themselves, further widening the horizon and strengthening the focus of big brother's eye in the sky.

It doesn't end there. Enter lobbying corporate greed & their political persons of special interest both advocating 'mileage meters' & gps/avl devices for 'those' untapped sources of revenue which conveniently ignore and further attenuate personal privacy rights.

This whole concept of tax-payers funding the undermining of their own privacy via the awarding of contracts to corporate surveillance innovations by their special interest beholden political 'partners' who then use it as a guise to trumpet their own 'safety-stance' record to bolster their campaign platform & profiteering agendas is as inherently treasonous as it is transparently corrupt & rotten.

The very first thing that came into my head when I saw this on the news today was "they can track every single automobile with this system!". I didnt give a damn about the taxation side of it. This government makes £40billion ($72.54billion) per year from fuel/road taxes. From a country that is only 60.4million strong thats a hell of a lot taxes.

This road toll from hell will reap taxes based on the kinds of roads and routes you drive. They say you "could pay less" under this scheme but we all know how much stock to put into that prediction.

For this to be enforced, there would need to be police cars scanning other cars for valid/working transponders. Either that or gantries on every road. I cant see this being feasible with current technology as you can just remove the transponder or jam it some how.

Time to fight back again, does any other Brit feel under seige from our own government yet?

Originally posted by subz

Time to fight back again, does any other Brit feel under seige from our own government yet?

Welcome to my world, and i'm an American.

I think this is a horrible law! If you don't except the law then you can't drive anywhere. that sucks! You Brits need to take back your country... its YOUR country, not the politicians country. Of the People, for the People.

Time to pay more taxes! Why? Why does the govt. need to take out more taxes? I'm not making anymore money. And to what? they need my money so they can go fight in wars, and build more weapons to kill people with. I wouldn't mind taxes if they would do something responsible with the money. They will never do that, unless we make them!

Good People of The World, please run for office and get the idiots and fascists out of power!!! The People Need Your Help!

Oh here we go ago again :

1. The article states 2 years which is a figment of the Independents imagination. A bad name for a fiercly anti labour paper. Our papers print lies if it keeps their readers happy!
2. It is a proposal intended to stimulate debate for a solution to the problem with a time limit of 8 years. Of course you would have to read real sources of information for that.
3. The proposal does state fuel and road taxes would be reduced or replaced.
4. Nobody except the matrix has mentioned tracking criminals. However now that you have, people here must have astonishingly bad memories or knowledge of technology. You can already purchase tracking technology to protect your car its just expensive at the moment hence why its only in luxury cars. It will be a standard feature in the future though.
5. Complaints about the taxes (subz mentioned £40billion) but forgot, as almost everybody does, that that figure is for today. It does not take account of the billions spent in the past 30-40 years on roads when the amount spent was much larger than the amount taken in taxes. It's about time that the motorists started to redress the balance. In the UK the balance switched in the mid 90's by which time almost all the Motorways had been built at the expense (taxes) of the non motorists. By the way don't forget the costs of policing, road repair, lighting, emergency services etc.
6. Road cameras already track car number plates for speeding purposes so the police can already track you if they wish. The chip in the car makes little difference there.
7. Every time you use a bank card the details are logged in a computer which the police can trace so ID cards make no difference there. Shall I laboriously list all computer traceable actions !

I for one do not feel under siege. I do , however, see lots of vocal people bitching and complaining and never ever providing solutions to problems. If you can't provide a solution then zip it. If you can provide a reasonable solution to a problem then by all meamns join the debate. NB debate not a bitching session.

The world is being strangled by western over consumption and we need solutions very very quickly. You want a prediction ? Unless we get to grips with energy, transport and water (NB not food) within the next 10 years then you can kiss your present lifestyle goodbye within the following 10 years when nobody will give a flying f... about tracking technology !

It has begun.

British motorists face paying a new charge for every mile they drive in a revolutionary scheme to be introduced within two years.

Drivers will pay according to when and how far they travel throughout the country's road network under proposals being developed by the Government.

Proposed by The Government. Yep the government not the people but the government are setting this up. I'm 100% NOT happy about this stupid law being from the UK an all. Along with speed cameras setup every so many miles so you don't speed AT ALL! (I wonder how they are gonna make money??)

Each of Britain's 24 million vehicles would be tracked by satellite if a variable "pay-as-you-drive" charge replaces the current road tax.

Yeah. I really like that idea, tracked and traced ANYWHERE in the UK. What a nice idea. The person who thought this idea up should be locked up in a mental institution. Its one thing to have a Passport with RFID and a national ID card but to have that and a variable pay as you drive scheme no we aren't becoming enslaved what so ever ARE WE??? Those of you who believe this is a way to stop congestion couldn't be further from the truth.

In an interview with The Independent on Sunday, Mr Darling warned that unless action is taken now, the country "could face gridlock" within two decades.

Reaaaaaaaheeeeeeally. Gridlock in 2 years oh my what a bummer. I don't know about you but if you look at quite alot of traffic in the mornings its mostly gridlocked anyways. Here's an idea. Well school starts at 9 yes?? And most people start work at 9 so why not change either work times or school times 1 or 2 hours forward or back??? Different I know but it would help ALOT of traffic on roads without the need to implement a massive scale satellite systems, geee I wonder how much it costs to put sats. in space???? Not cheap I Imagine. Then theres little black boxes that need to be put in the cars. They can't be cheap either.

The rapid uptake of satellite navigational technology in cars is helping to usher in the new "pay-as-you-drive" charge much sooner than had been expected. Figures contained in a government feasibility study have suggested motorists could pay up to £1.34 for each mile they travel during peak hours on the most congested roads.

1.34 per mile???

So if you say the AVG. car tax costs between £100-£150 a year.
The AA Road Tax costs
100*24 million = 2400000000

150*24 million = 3600000000
per annum


lets say for example the average driver does 20 miles a day. Because its variable it is difficult to make exact answers. So I shall just use the the busy peak road toll.

£1.34*20 = £26.80 per day.

So we add up the days into weeks, months and then annually. Lets see how much it theoretically adds up to.

£26.80*7 (days) = £187.60;
£134*4 (months) = £750.40;
£536*12 (years) = 9004.80
(Yearly cost X 24 million vehicles) £9004.80*24000000 = £216,115,200,000

Now lets compare avg. road tax to the new system

£30,000,00,000, This is avg cost of current tax.

£216,115,200,000, This is avg. cost of new tax.

Plus you got to take into consideration the cost of the new speed camera system they are implementing, rise of fuel, costs of putting sats. in space, maintenence of sats in space etc. etc.

Now tell me how your gonna save money on tax with the new system?Uless they are willing to change the price of oil for a hefty lower difference we will not save any money what-so-ever even if oil does come down you won't save money.

This has absolutley nothing to do with removal of conggestion as that can be sorted EASILY! It has got ALOT to do with "A get rich quick" scheme that has been in the works for years.

People of the UK you must act before its too late. This system needs not be implimented it costs too much to impliment, run and maintain. DON'T FALL FOR IT!

There are only 1 group of people who benefit from this and that my friends are "The Bankers" who will invest money at a interest charge. SIMPLE AS THAT.

“If you want to be the slaves of banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the banks create money..” Josiah Stamp, Governor of the Bank of England 1920

[edit on 6/6/05 by Hunting Veritas]

I'm a disabled driver, and use my vehical to take my two mental health disabled son's to their theaputic work every day of the week. So if i have to pay a pound a mile, that's 28 mile's a day, a 140 mile's per week, so that would cost me 140 pound's a week that i don't have in my mobility benefit's to keep my son's in therapy, plus the fact that i am restircted on millage on mobility in the first place!
So where am i as a disabled driver going to get over 7 thousand pound's a year from ?
Yeah, it might work if the cost of petrol dropped to 3p a gallon, as if! This is yet another Gov' extortion racket built on the American Super Id syndrome, and we all know a fall come's when Pride has had it's Heyday!

Well by what i read in news paper the enviromentalist are not happy as it will get rid of road tax and either get rid of or reduce fuel tax.

I think its not a bad idea as the ppl who dont use there cars excessively wont get hit in the pockets as badly as heavy users which should pay more if there are digging up the roads more.

But there shold be insurances that there will be no speed checking on us as that just an unfair advantage to the police. Everyone has gone over the speed limit even if they didnt notice they have and considering wherei come from they change from 30 to 40mph frequently and you never know what speed you should be going at.

There are no motorways up here so I shouldnt have to pay as much lol maybe actually save me money. Plus the govererment to coup som of the cost by allowing the AA and RAC ppl use the tracking system to allow them to give road side assistance could they not?

BAD for the enviroment thou.

The most troubling thing that I have noticed is that there is NO MEDIA COVERAGE OF THIS!!! I watch the news alot during the day and I have noticed hardly any to no coverage of the national ID card, samething with the UKs pay-by-the-mile system. All that they do show is the Michael Jackson case. If they showed any coverage of this then the people will understand that both of these systems are bs.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Well i cant belive nobody's figured it out yet
its not about congestion or big brother or even aliens
it's very simple thats why thers no coverage .....are you ready

In ten years time when this will be in FULLY in place there will
be very few if any petrol cars left, diesel will last a bit longer because
they will make it from nateral gas..
it will all be electric jelpacks and fuelcells wich means they wont get any
duty because you cant put duty on electricity witch means no pennys for the goverment big time. remember the uk has the most expensive petrol in the world........

so thats why the crafty b**stards are trying this scam

Edit: bortsamson, holy crap! Thats so obvious it hurts! That explains it quite precisely! Well done

It was plastered in the main headlines of todays BBC News 24 broadcasts. Dont know bout the other channels (ITV, Sky, Ch.4 etc).

Fuel tax is proportional tax already. Why they dont think its fair is beyond me.

The more you drive the more fuel you need hence the more tax you pay.

The less you drive the less fuel you need hence the less tax you pay.

Their arguments are a load of balloney. This is about ripping off innercity drivers as they will charge the highest rates per mile for the urban city centers. Meanwhile their government funded cars will be exempt from it plus the tax from fuel

But all that isnt really the end of the World. I dont drive a car, dont need one and ride a bicycle if I need to go some where outside of walking distance. I dont pay fuel tax any way and this plan would not affect me. Whats got me up in arms though is the possibilty for invasion of privacy on a mass scale. If you create something with a vulnerability to exploitation its a matter of "when" not "if" it will be abused.

Their needs to be initiatives to curb the road use and amount of cars on the road but this plan is not the answer. Its a revenue raiser, class divide enforcer and surveilance system all rolled into one bitter pill.

[edit on 6/6/05 by subz]

I don't like this plan, it's all a money making scheme.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by TPL]