Cryogenics for future cars...

Ok this thread isn't about Cryogenics involving hydrogen(although it could be), instead the focus is on the use of cryogenics on a cars components. A man named David Hutchison(no relation to John Hutchison) uses Cryogenics to temper his car parts, and the results are spectacular. He experimented on his Hybrid Honda and his gas milage went for 50 miles to the gallon upto 120 miles to the gallon, inaddition it supposibly makes the parts last a lot longer than they normally would!

Cryogenic car

Now why aren't we seeing more of this? I would love to be able to go to a mechanic and have my car "upgraded" so that it would last much longer than normal or buy a new car at a dealership with this procedure coming standard. Ofcourse there are economic reasons, but I think the benefits
outweigh the possible problems. What would happen if you combined this with other fuel saving technologies that are coming out?

wow...... if that works with no real major side effects.... this would help things out quite a bit. things like gas mileage, parts wearing out on various equipment, maybe even space exploration??

[edit on 1-6-2005 by pao]

I wonder if there is more info on that thing.
Doesen't That Hutchison have a website or something. It's great news we need to know more about it

Oops I just saw it
man am I fast with the posts

I wonder if this could be used for space shuttles maybe making em last longer. I am sure that if and when this is proven very effiecent it will never be put into the market just cause half the busineses out there depend on the idea that you need to fix stuff frequently. Has anyone ever noticed that something like a TV from like 10 years ago lasts longer than a TV bought like 3? I heard that they make parts not a sturdy or something along those lines. But great post

I can see how cryo treatment could make metals exhibit certain wear properties, but how on earth will it increase the fuel efficiency of an engine. If anyone can find some info on how it does this, that would be an interesting read.

We aleady have cryogenics in cars...when I pour freaon or antifreeze into my car.

*Stuff like this will cost you $70k a car. Get over the dream scenario.

EDIT: My bad, this guy is a moron. There are thousands of engineers who work with thermal fluid exchange. Why are we to believe that freezing an engine(???) is going to make your car any more effecient? What a lack of science. This reminds me of Zero Point energy threads.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by Frosty]

*profanity edit

[edit on 1-8-2005 by dbates]

Originally posted by Frosty
We aleady have cryogenics in cars...when I pour freaon or antifreeze into my car.

# like this will cost you $70k a car. Get over the dream scenario.

EDIT: My bad, this guy is a moron. There are thousands of engineers who work with thermal fluid exchange. Why are we to believe that freezing an engine(???) is going to make your car any more effecient? What a lack of science. This reminds me of Zero Point energy threads.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by Frosty]

Okay, maybe you are a bit confused on exaclty what this process is. I believe you are. You do have the same point as I do in that I really haven't read how it makes a car engine efficient.

Conventionally, metals are treated using a heat treating process to harden surfaces to make them resistive to abrasion and also it can be used to make metals tougher and have certain "characterisitics" depending on what metallurgists want. It isn't the heating that does this, but the process of cooling down and tempering of the metal. Metals have a grain structure just like wood does, but you can actually heat up metal to a state just below melting and have the structure reorganize to a more stable form, called stress relief. Also, a certain type of carbon structure, known as carbon carbides can be removed to make the metal generally better in every way. Think of treating steels as a method of further refinement.

Cryo treatment uses a different approach of cooling instead of heating that has advantages, which I will not go into here, because frankly I am tired. This method is more versatile and more cost effective than normal heat treatment to create alloys which perform better.

This has nothing to do with putting antifreeze in your car, which will not treat steels or reorganize the structure of the metal grains of its components.

This is basically about a manufacturing process that makes metals perform better than they would without this procedure.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by ben91069]

ben91069 is correnct. Formula 1 drivers have been using cryo-treated engines for about a decade or two now(just asked my dad whos fanatical about that sort of thing) it has nothing to do with having a sub-zero engine or anything like that.

I'm not sure how relevant this is but:

A few companies started cryo treating guitar strings about ten years ago, claiming they'd last longer, sound better, etc etc. I gave a few sets a try but I honestly never noticed a difference. I'd still kill them in a few days . Cryo treating definitely was not the miracle they claimed it to be, at least not for guitar strings.

FWIW I can tell the difference in sound and longevity in the different brands of guitar strings as well as the metals used.

rktspc, I doubt it's at all very relevant. Guitar Strings and Car Engines are two totally different beasts. What do you play btw? Metal i'm thinking as my dad doesn't go through strings nearly as much as replacing them in a few days lol.

Racecars and motorcycles have been using cryo treated parts for a long time.

I know someone who had cryo treated brake rotors on a sportbike and they lasted forever as in too many sets of brake pads to count, and he was not easy on them my any means.

I also remember reading about how police departments have started using cryo treated brake rotors which stop better and last much longer which saves money over the long term.

From what I understand cryo treating metal helps form a very tough skin on it which is great at resisting cracking and warping.

They don't just freeze it though, they kind of temper it by heating it up to several hundred degrees fahrenheit and then cool it down with liquid nitrogen to a few hundred degrees below 0 and repeat the process numerous times.

As far as getting stuff cryo treated its not hard or that expensive. there are places that wil cryo treat anything just like there are places that will chrome or powdercoat anything you want.

check it out

www.cryoplus.com...

www.cryogenicsinternational.com...

www.metal-wear.com...

www.300below.com...

www.frozenrotors.com...

www.frozensolid.co.uk...

alpinecryo.com...

www.nitrofreeze.com...

As far as improving fuel economy I don't see how cryo treating an engine would help??? Unless cryo treated cams, valves and rings would wear less and thus provide a better seal which would improve efficiency?

[edit on 1-8-2005 by warpboost]

STill, it is misleading to state that these proccess aren't used in our cars now because they are expensive. This appears to be a use of word manipulation as the original article gave nil info on how cryo works. Now that I see it, this is nothing new or surprising, like I said, there are thousands of engineers who work on this everyday.

I suppose it is because of drag reduction between the engine's components since they are suppose to wear off slower than maybe their surface is harder and smoother