My problem with Abductions

I personally don't have any scientific opinion on Abductions, but personally I always believe the people who claim to have been abducted are full of B.S.!

The reasons are:

1) Their story is extremely unlikely, with no witnesses or trace evidence

2) Their story is either incomplete, or very unspecific - much like one would speak when trying to recall or describe a dream

Now one could credibly argue that if the Aliens are highly sophisticated they would not leave witnesses or evidence, and they could easily be manipulating the mental state of the "abductee" thus producing the hazy / dreamlike descriptions of these encounters.

However am I the only one who feels that all the abductions claims / studies only confuses the UFO issue?

And since abductions seem to never leave any signifigant evidence - shouldn't we focus on the tangible evidence that can be found on UFO's?

I mean pictures, video, government documents, alien artifacts, etc..

That is the kind of stuff that will lead to disclosure!

I know I will probably get shouted down for my narrow-mindedness but I just think abductions should be discussed in private specialized support groups/forums and we should use the more general UFOlogy forums to help consolidate and discuss the little real, solid, physical evidence we can manage to get our hands on.

Anyone here agree with me?

No Truth Magnet, you are not narrow minded in needing more than a story from someone you have never met or conversed with.

Why should you believe them, its wiser to be sceptical than gullible.

The trouble with those who say they have been abducted and yet say that they have undergone the most continuing and wondrous Contact episodes is that try to put the burden on sceptics to disprove it.

Laughable isnt it.

When you ask them to explain even the most simplistic parts of their stories they never do.

They just wander off shaking their heads in mock bewilderment.

Perhaps if most of them had similar stories then perhaps they would stand more chance of being believed.

However they all want to undergo "unique" experiences, it comes with the territory you see and thats when they start contradicting each other and the stories then start to fall apart.



[edit on 23-5-2005 by JayKew]

JayKew,

Well - I'm glad at least someone here feels the way I do on this matter!

I honestly believe all this discussion of abductions (and even religion) on the UFOlogy forums only serves to divide and defeat our chances of disclosure.

Now, I personally am a Christian, and I know that it is a philosophical topic that requires a leap of faith as I can not prove my religion concretely to another.

But if we are really seeking to find the truth about UFO's let's treat it in a higly scientific and focused manner.

And if we find that all the evidence and eye witness testimony indeed points to something supernatural - then we will be open minded enough to follow the evidence to even the most unexpected of places.

For now we'd be wise to stick to the facts and see where it takes us!



[edit on 23-5-2005 by TruthMagnet]

I also agree that stories of abductions and visitations lack scientific evidence. I find some interesting, and others I don't bother with. I feel the same way about the reptilians living underground, and how someday they will take over. This IMHO is distracting, and the people promoting it are not providing any evidence. But I would not go as far to say they don't belong here, and think there is plenty of room for everyone here at ATS.

Of course some of the times people who claimed they were abducted are lying, other times they were dreaming, and everything has a rational, and logical explanation. But because of this you cant pass the whole issue off as BS. I can already tell that you dont really know much about this topic, and are basing your opinions off what you know of it from TV and the media in general.

You should never just believe whatever someone says, especially with stuff like this.. But dont just look at it from one closed minded side.

And you said that they never have any evidence, thats false. In MANY cases there is a huge amount of evidence.

I believe that all "encounters" were classified Close encounters of the 1st to 4th kind? So why deal exclusively with just the 1st and 2nd kinds? They are the easiest to document and back up with evidence, perhaps, but still only a small part of a wider phenomenen.

The likelihood of seeing a UFO is quite slim. The chances of seeing one and having the presence of mind AND having a camera at the same time to snap off a shot, are even slimmer. Then we move into the realm of actually having an abduction experience, having the presence of mind not to wet your jim-jams, having a camera in your pyjama pocket and the alien probing you not minding having his picture taken, and we find the likelihood stretches to v.v. slim or none.

The argument presented quite often for UFO sightings is this. If around 99% of sightings can be written off as swamp gas/birds/northern star, there is still that 1%. That 1% is all it would take to confirm an earth-shattering discovery.

Surely the same argument can be applied to abduction cases? If you rule out the 99.9% of cases of cheese pizza/dementia/writer needing book-deal/X-files addict/etc....there is still that niggling 0.1% which is an even more earth-shattering discovery.

You ask normal people to drop their doubts and stretch their imaginations to believe you have just seen something out of the ordinary flying around the sky, yet when alleged abductees ask you to drop your doubts and stretch your imagination, you have a problem with it?

Thank all of you who defended the people who believe they have been abducted. There are so many unknowns in this world and beyond that keeping an open mind is, IMO, the only intelligent way to go.

The reasons are:

1) Their story is extremely unlikely, with no witnesses or trace evidence

2) Their story is either incomplete, or very unspecific - much like one would speak when trying to recall or describe a dream

Neither apply to the following case…
www.abovetopsecret.com...

howmuchisthedoggy,

I understand what you are saying but I think you mis-understand (or I have mis-communicated) my intention.

I just don't believe abductions and their stories should be disscused in the same topic as normal UFOlogy.

All Alien forums seem to do this and I think it confuses the issue.

You end up with the endless abstract arguments about who's lying who's not and it confuses the whole issue.

I think Abductions should be its own topic in ATS.

And I think close encounters of the 1st thru 3rd - just short of abductions should be the General lien topic on ATS.

Mainly I am just lamenting at the fact that abductions are such a subjective and divisivse topic that when mixed in with normal UFOlogy forums it serves to divide us and much progress cannot be made.

I think if Abductees discussed their experiences mainly with other Abductees (in their own topic) you, like other "survivors", would be better able to root out the attention seekeers and crazies - as their tales will not ring true to the majority of real experiencers.

As for those who say I no nothing of the substantial evidence out there - I would disagree - abduction stories and the Hill case are what opened my mind to mind to the reality of Aliens in the first place when I was a child.

But if their are implants with unearthly properties why are they not documented, verified scientifically, and put on display at UFO conventions?

My guess is that either the evidence is eliminated or never bore out true in the first place.

I know I'm a dreamer about trying to get ameteur UFOlogists more focused and effective, but at least I'm not the only one...

TruthMagnet,

I can see where you are coming from alright.

Just try getting ANY of the discussions on this website pinned down and focused is a tall order!!!!

Good luck and if you get a seperate forum I will be there checking it out.

However, the advantage of having the two topics together is apart from the fact that they are intrinsically linked, we have objective fellows like yourself scanning the discussions and keeping the rest of us feet firmly planted on planet Earth.

Not exactly a bad thing, eh?

True.. True...

Sometimes ATS (and all UFO forums) just seem so futile to me..

Those members bringing up real evidence and specific interesting cases see their threads drop quickly - while a joke picture of a cow gets like 1000 replies...

And the more improbable the story the more likely it is to be popular...

Sheesh!

One day soon I hope I learn to exploit Humanities obsession with the trivial so I can raise enough money to start a real, effective think tank comprised of serious scientists and dectectives.

Until then I will just lement the state of mankind...

Sometimes I feel like the Alien around here - even on the this forum I have little in common with most of the members participating here...