India's military and its copied stuff

Indian Army

1. Arjun

Lovely piece of Indian indigenious tech....my A$$!

As of mid-1997 the list of faults after 20 years of development was not encouraging. In addition to numerous technical modifications to its fire and gun control systems, the fire control system in particular has been found unable to perform in temperatures above 42 degrees Celsius (108F). The DRDO has been considering scrapping the current Arjun fire control system in favor of whatever is accepted for the T-72M1 upgrade program. Defects noticed during the user trials of the Arjun Mk.1 MBT, including over-heating of the engine in Rajasthan desert areas, while other complaints were being addressed.

The Arjun is based on the Leopard 2, with help from the designer of the Leopard 2. Many of the fire control and optics are from Russia, Israel, France and other countries. Now, the Indian army is already giving up on the Arjun, buying more T-90 tanks and investing on the T-72 Rhino upgrade program.

2. Russian Tanks

T-90S MBT,T-72M1 MBT, Project Rhino and T-55 MBT are all completely Russian bought designs. Really smart since the money invested will probably be worth more than investing on the Arjun. Only the T-90S and T-72 M1 MBTs will be used for frontline units. There again, nothing but Russian stuff, all while China is designing the Type-98 and introducing the Type-88 to mass production.

3. APCs and IFVs

The only APCs/IFVs worth mentioning in the Indian army is the BMP-1 and BMP-2. Both are Russian designs (Indians can't make anything, only can buy from Russians), and both have been notorious for nauseous rides and thin armor, making them vunerable to even RPG-7s. The Indians also make use of the BRDM-2 (Russian again) for reconaissance, but it has even thinner armor than the BMPs.

Indian AF

1. Su-30MKI

Many people believe this to be Indian....WRONG!

The first few planes will be delievered by Russia, with plans for India to manufacture it locally by HAL (see, RUSSIAN STUFF! Can't make anything on their own). Many of the avonics come from France and Israel, with only a tiny bit coming from India herself.

2. Aircraft from other countries

India operates many aircraft from other countries, these including the Mirage 2000, MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-25, MiG-27, MiG-29, Jaguar and Canberra. However, most of these are either rusting Russian MiG-21s and 23s. Even with all the modern avonics, most of these are either of Israeli or French origin, nothing indigenious at all.

3. LCA.

Great piece of junk you got there, eh?

The LCA, which was intended to replace the MiG-21, is supposed to be introduced in 2007. It is powered by P&W Ge-404s (AMERICAN STUFF!), with a lot of American engineers providing help. The Kaveri engine, which was probably the most important Indian part recently failed a test in Russia. LCA is for the most part using Israeli avonics. By the way, what weapons have been cleared for LCA? NONE!

Compare it to the JF-17/FC-1. The JF-17's Griffo S-7 is based on the Griffo 2000,which is in turn a copy of the APG-68. The APG-68 has been proved in combat in the F-15s, while the MMR in the LCA will be a decade old without any experience at all. Also,the EW suite for JF-17 is being developed by the same company that provides EW suite for Rafale. Both of them have MFDs and datalinks, so nothing different. The SD-10 in BVR is very good, 70km+ Range, and it's "best shot" would be around 50km, while all of India's BVR Missiles require less range to get the "best shot".


More on Indian Navy,provided I can spare the time and this topic does not get locked.

yeah indegenious my ass

Warlord, i understand you are disgusted by the FACT that every piece of Chinese "indegenous" defence equipment is copied.

This post is perhaps the definition of "IGNORANCE".

But to hide your disgust towards your source nation's pathetic actions by making UTTERLY RUBBISH NON-SENSICAL MEANINGLESS at another is even more pathetic.

When did India ever claim that they "developed" the Su-30 MKI ?

"MK" means it is the export model of the Sukhoi and "I" means it is exported to india. Similarly "K"means it is exported to China, "M" for Malaysia and so on...

Or something that the Arjun is designed by the designer of the Leapord 2...source that as well

When did india claim that they "developed" the T-90 or the T-72 ?

Are under the impression that every indian defence purchase from foreign nations is an indian development or what ? ...Grow a brain buddy.

Your chinese Type-98 was plagued with far worse problems than the Arjun, and none of those are fixed as well, that's why its not even inducted. While all the problems with the Arjun have been fixed and 124 have been inducted.

I sympathise with your actions as it is a reflection of your state of mind. Who would'nt be disgusted if their country (China) did nothing but copy. I suggest a visit to a mental hospital.




[edit on 18-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Your chinese Type-98 was plagued with far worse problems than the Arjun, and none of those are fixed as well, that's why its not even inducted. While all the problems with the Arjun have been fixed and 124 have been inducted.

I sympathise with your actions as it is a reflection of your state of mind. Who would'nt be disgusted if their country (China) did nothing but copy. I suggest a visit to a mental hospital.
[edit on 18-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

the t-98 is a tech demonstater...didn't you know


what problems does it have???? being to good for the arjun

Not inducted. Ordered. you seem to have a problem with this..

India can't even produce a decent "Indegenious" aircraft/tank without having Enormous help from forgien countries..

ALL the information published on the web about indian weapons are all from indian websites. Down play foregin involment. they critize china because they see her as a threat. They did the same to the germans and russians. Its called propaganda..

Past indian attempt to build a indegenious fighter.

HF-24 Marut was based on a ww2 fighter that the germans built



[edit on 18-5-2005 by chinawhite]

okay I'm going to nip this in the bud..

Copy=> Plagerise and modify w/o permission and/or help from the original party..

help=> NOT Copy..as it is under the consent of the original party..


HF-24 Marut has an engine designed by famous german engg. Kurt Tank
..
history:

After WWII all nazi scientists fled to the corners of the globe to escape counter-prosecution from allied jews who were desparately looking for their "pound of flesh"...
Kurt tank escaped to Argentina..however the jews tracked him down there..
The Indian secret service (RAW) however settled a deal with Mr. Tank.. They promised him asylum and security from prosecution by the jews if he were to help the IAF design a fighter of their own.. Obv. he did.. And lo the HF 24 was born..

Chinawihte, 90% of china's defence equipment are not indegenously built.

go visit www.sinodefence.com, a chinese defence website and find out for yourself. Most of the stuff china have are all copied from soviet tech.

It baffles me to know that you accuse india of copying, which they have'nt while your own country has copied anything and everything.

The worst part of chinese copying is that they sell these copies too.

And Warlord the Griffo radar on the JF-17 is Italian.
Any sources on the LCA having 100% israeli aveonics.
I know that you know that problems with the Kaveri are rectified and has completed 150+ hours of supersonic testing, but repeated posting on the same topic makes me doubt your sanity.

Check out this :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

www.belowtopsecret.com...

People living in glasshouses should'nt throw stones at others.

-- Old English saying.

[edit on 18-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
HF-24 Marut has an engine designed by famous german engg. Kurt Tank
..
history:

After WWII all nazi scientists fled to the corners of the globe to escape counter-prosecution from allied jews who were desparately looking for their "pound of flesh"...
Kurt tank escaped to Argentina..however the jews tracked him down there..
The Indian secret service (RAW) however settled a deal with Mr. Tank.. They promised him asylum and security from prosecution by the jews if he were to help the IAF design a fighter of their own.. Obv. he did.. And lo the HF 24 was born..

Thanks, great info ...i did'nt know that.

I am pretty sure he felt pleased to work for india as 80% of india is constituted by the decendents of the Aryan race

We should all garland Him

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

People living in glasshouses should'nt throw stones at others.

-- Old English saying.

[edit on 18-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

yeah that quote was for you in another thread

Copy-cat indian

These type topic threads will no longer be allowed.
They are distracting and disruptive, and only fuel further division between members [namely the Chinese and Indian members], providing nothing of substance to discussion, the ATS community, and ATS itself.

This matter and issue has been under ongoing observation and is now going to cease.

From here on out, bear in mind this:
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!

Thread Closed





[edit on 19-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]