Chinese MiG-31s

Originally posted by xmotex
The satellite interceptor theory is interesting, the Chinese are no doubt keenly aware of the advantages recon, communications, and GPS satellites give the US. Shooting down those satellites would really undercut the US's advantages in the event of a conflict. Seems to fit well with the PLA's "assymetric warfare" doctrine.

Similarly, with the Mig-31's ability to travel long distances at high speeds, one can imagine that if they were equipped with advanced high speed ASM's, they might be uniquely capable of dashing in to firing range at high mach, firing, and bugging out, radically reducing a carrer group's ability to respond.

I think Mig-31 carried misiles would be capable only to take dow low flying spy sats, the GPS and comunication satelites fly much higher.

And the Mig-31 cannot "travel long distances at high speeds". It still needs afterburner to go supersonic - that means high fuel consumtion. And I highly doubt it would be even able to go supersonic with two huge Sunburns under wings, for example.


[edit on 15-5-2005 by longbow]

Well the Mig-31 is a very long-legged aircraft, it was made to patrol Russia's vast territory. The more fuel a given a/c has, the further it can go at any given speed. I don't know what the drag coefficient of two Sunburns is, but I doubt it's that much greater than that of four Aamos's, the R-33 is no shrimp itself. And the Mig-31's mission profile as an interceptor necessitates an ability to go supersonic with the Aamos's.

It's not a supercruiser, but it wouldn't have to be. The high speeds would only be needed to dash in and out of the CVBG's CAP/SAM umbrella, not for the whole run.

I think you're probably right about the air-launched ASAT's being more effective against low-orbit targets, but that would still make the US's task signifigantly harder in any conflict.

Again how would a Mi G 31 take out a low orbit sat??!! Has the tech been developed??
Low orbit sats orbit at a min distance of 100km...aorund 300,000ft!!

The US had an F-15 launched ASAT in it's inventory 10 or 15 years ago, though I understand it is no longer in service, but IIRC it was tested successfully.

I don't see why the Chinese wouldn't be able to develop one of their own, or any spacefaring power for that matter.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Again how would a Mi G 31 take out a low orbit sat??!! Has the tech been developed??
Low orbit sats orbit at a min distance of 100km...aorund 300,000ft!!

some sort of anti-sateillite tech

Both the 2003 and 2004 editions of the U.S. Pentagon's Annual Report on the Military Power of the People's Republic of China cite a January 2001 Hong Kong newspaper article that claims China has developed and tested an advanced anti-satellite (ASAT) system. This ASAT is described as a "parasitic microsatellite," that is, a small satellite that attaches itself to a larger satellite to disrupt or destroy the larger satellite on command. The existence of such a system is clearly an important issue to the U.S. military and the Congress.

Info about mig-31 ASAT

USSR/CIS Miniature ASAT

A more conventional ASAT program was also underway in the late 1980's and early 1990's. A specially configured MiG-31 was designed to carry an air-launched missile equipped with a satellite-homing, kinetic-kill warhead (Reference 126). It is possible to assume that MiG-31D it were created within the framework of the program of domestic "star wars" for the destruction of orbital stations and spacecraft of the enemy.

Very similar to the US F-15 air-launched ASAT, successfully tested against a satellite in September, 1985, the USSR/CIS miniature ASAT would have been restricted to satellites in LEO, but it would have considerably greater flexibility for engaging enemy satellites than the Co-orbital ASAT. Perhaps more important would be its ability to attack with virtually no warning, unlike the Co-orbital ASAT.

A pair of specialized MiG-31s [Izdelye 07 "article 07"] were built in 1987 as carriers for an ASAT missile. These two Foxhounds featured triangular "webbed feet" wing endplate fins, like those fitted to some MiG-25 prototypes. These fins provided improved flight stability at high altitudes for missile launches with the suspension on the external pylon of large rocket. The prototypes did not have a rocket launch system [RLS] -- instead, they had a 200-kilogram mass equivalent. The radio-transparent nose fairing was replaced by an all-metal fairing, and a central sliding pylon for the "article" was added. A single large missile was carried under the fuselage. The cannon was deleted to save weight. A special upward-looking radar and associated intercept fire-control system was to be fitted to production machines. The MiG-31D, flying at the height order 17,000 m with a velocity of 3,000 km/h, would zoom to launch the interceptor at the target.

These aircraft were given the designation of "MiG-31D", a designation which is also applied to initial production MiG-31s with refueling probes, as well as to what Greg Goebel terms "a bewildering range of other Foxhound variants, both real and imaginary."

The second prototype MiG-31D, # 072, tested by the pilots OF OKB in Zhukovskiy. The first departure and tests conducted the test pilot A.G. Fastovets. The test program continued several years, but it was stopped in the beginning of the 90s because of the obscure situation with the advent of new rocket.

The rocket is developed by OKB Vympel, which specialize in the creation of air-to-air missiles.

The status of the Russian airlaunched ASAT today is unclear, but Russian officials in 1992 indicated that future space tests were possible. The effort was suspended in the early 1990s and so far few details have been released.

All that is well and fine.. (If its TRUE that is!! Like someone said.. just a bunch of "lets get someone else after iraq" types analysts concocting intelligence on anti-satellite systems to score points for a proper starwars orbital system..)

but tell me how is the MiG going to launch the ASAT..
Its flight ceiling is how much?? Max 20000 metres??
The ASAT needs enough propellent to go another 80km AGAINST the force of gravity to GET to 100km..
Thats where LEO begins I think..
Also where are the leaks on the acquisition of these Mig 31/33s??
only pentagon reports??And taht too mot independant pentagon reports..

Pentagon reports CITING honkong newspaper article!!

poor pentagon.. got no intel acquisition methods of their own??

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

hehee here are links

russian mig-31
www.globalsecurity.org...

chinese ASAT
cns.miis.edu...

In September 2003 China reached an agreement with the European Union to participate in the Galileo project, which will advance China's military satellite capabilities, according to analysts

Whats this? China is also participating in the Galileo project...Hmm....


And, just wondering, will these MiGs be used only for ASAT or also for A2A combat and intercepting? It seems like such a waste to get a plane like this and use it only for ASAT uses.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Hmmm....Chinese MiG-31s? Have any of you guys heard about this?

I believe the Chinese deal to buy the MiG-31 fell apart about 10 years ago, although I can't remember the specifics. Although Russia developed several export models of the MiG-31, none was successfully sold to any country. Customers preferred the MiG-29 and Su-27 family since these aircraft are more flexible and can conduct air defense as well as ground attack missions. The MiG-31 is rather limited in the types of missions it can perform.

Russia currently has about 350 MiG-31s,mostly for Air Defence. Coming to think of it, I can see why hardly anyone ever bought MiG-31s... The MiG-31 would probably be used as a frontline fighter if bought by 3rd world countries, which are probably the only people who might want MiG-31s.

The Su-27 has a better range, would be better as a frontline fighter, while the MiG-29's R-27s would be a better option than the MiG-31's R-33 for use against small fighter-bombers. China has bought 24 of them, but whether production in China is there, I don't know. 24 fighters roughly equals 2 Squadrons, It would be interesting if there was a P-3 Orion incident again and a MiG-31 showed up to buzz it.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
China has bought 24 of them, but whether production in China is there, I don't know.

I don't believe China ever received any MiG-31 aircraft. The deal the nation had made to purchase 24 aircraft was apparently cancelled, probably because China opted to buy the Su-27/Su-30 instead.

yeah there has been no reports of any entering service .. maybe this stuff is top-secret

No.. Its not.. Didn't you get what w4rlord said?. Its been scrapped after being compared to the Su-27/30..

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
It would be interesting if there was a P-3 Orion incident again and a MiG-31 showed up to buzz it.

Doubt it, China will only send J-7,8's for that kind of mission.

China has a tendency to baby it's elite forces much like all Asian nations with regards to warefare such as the Japanese in WW2.

I don't have much trust in those J-8s and J-7s...I think the PLAAF should get more Russian equipment and use them instead of using these obsolete aircraft. The J-8 is quite unstable at low speeds, which may be why the crah happened. Hopefully, with the Fc-1 and J-10 onwards they start making better and more reliable aircraft. Until then, the main interceptor for the PLAAF is still the J-7 and J-8, and the aerial superiority role is still reserved for the Russian aircraft (Su-27/30)