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Originally posted by lost_shaman
If millions of poeple world wide are reporting U.F.O.'s , and according to Blue Books figures that on Average 22% of these reports are "Unknown", when will we investigate the science behind these reports?
Two meeting between the civilian UFO researchers and the military took place last Friday, May 20, and firstly happened in the headquarters of the Integrated Center of Air Defense and Air Traffic Control (Centro Integrado de Defesa Aérea e Controle de Trafego Aéreo, Cindacta), a very sensitive facility. During two hours, the researchers were given lectures of the procedures conducted at Cindacta and had the chance to visit air traffic control rooms and understand how UFOs could be detected by the Air Force personnel.
The second and most important meeting took place just after this one at the very reserved facilities of Brazilian Air Defense Command (Comando de Defesa Aerea Brasileiro, Comdabra), an even more sensitive installation that controls the entire air defense situation in the country and surrounding areas of Atlantic Ocean and South America. In this facility the UFO researchers were given full briefing of the top aspects of aerial defense of the country.
It was in this facility that its own commander, brigadier Atheneu Azambuja, admitted to the UFO researchers how concerned the Brazilian military are about the UFO phenomena. Azambuja also gave details of Comdabra procedures and openly admitted that the country has systematically detected and registered UFOs in the country – labeled as “H Traffic” – since 1954. That wasn’t a surprise for the UFO researchers of the Brazilian Committee of UFO Researchers (CBU), but how this registering process took place was.
Systematically detected, registered, and labeled as "H Traffic", for 51 years!
But keep in mind that they can't distinguish between what is ET Ufos, regular UFOs, mis-identified objects, secret projects, etc etc.
Azambuja also gave details of Comdabra procedures and openly admitted that the country has systematically detected and registered UFOs in the country – labeled as “H Traffic” – since 1954. That wasn’t a surprise for the UFO researchers of the Brazilian Committee of UFO Researchers (CBU), but how this registering process took place .
Isn't that our goal, to rule out the possible terrestrial and atmoshperic explainations, when attempting to validate the extra-terrestrial theory?
What can we really say from this information? Lets say that we have a consistent record of 'things' tracked by radar that seem to be moving in unusual ways.
What does that give us? Are they perhaps stealthy jets flitting about? Are they 'radar projections' of objects that don't actually exist?
How can we state anything about them? I'm not saying its 'not worth looking at', but its understandable, considering how difficult real scientific research is under controlled conditions, that lots of people don't even want to spend time going thru these records, and that the ones who have been haven't been able to find anything.
I mean, the original issue was 'why aren't more scientists taking this stuff seriously?'. Well, they are, the problem is, there's practically nothing to actually work with, even when there are these extensive 'records'.
Originally posted by Quest
As a (ex)scientist I'd be happy to explain. Observation leads to theory. Theorys that are not-testable are unprovable. Its that simple.
If you can propose an experiment, that can be carried out, to test the theory that non-earth based craft are in our skys, I'm all ears.
Also, when experimentation is not possible, logic and philosophy often have to take over. In the case of UFO the known existance of top-secret aircraft (and space craft?) makes it logical that UFOs are man made. I have seen several UFOs very much beyond public domain, but I have no reason to say if they are man made or not.
Originally posted by Mad Man Lotar
Originally posted by Quest
As a (ex)scientist I'd be happy to explain. Observation leads to theory. Theorys that are not-testable are unprovable. Its that simple.
If you can propose an experiment, that can be carried out, to test the theory that non-earth based craft are in our skys, I'm all ears.
Also, when experimentation is not possible, logic and philosophy often have to take over. In the case of UFO the known existance of top-secret aircraft (and space craft?) makes it logical that UFOs are man made. I have seen several UFOs very much beyond public domain, but I have no reason to say if they are man made or not.
Exactly, when something can not be falsified, there is no way to go forward.
You do not even have to be a scientist or researcher to recognize scientific principal; you just have to take a few courses in any class that deals with the scientific method.
Well I'm no expert at all , but if you can detect an ETV, you can track it , monitor its movements and manuvers, record its speed, get someone on the ground in the area to visually verify the target, make triangulations, and do it all in real time.
Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Shaman says:
Well I'm no expert at all , but if you can detect an ETV, you can track it , monitor its movements and manuvers, record its speed, get someone on the ground in the area to visually verify the target, make triangulations, and do it all in real time.
So what are you left with, Shaman? The very best real evidence you can come up with is a possible recording or a radar trace that show something moving fast.
And what is that "something"?
There isn't a radar set around that can really identify something as deing a "this" or a "that". All you will ever be able to get under those circumstances is that there is something that appears to be moving very fast.
But could it be an aircraft whose signature is distorted by a temperature inversion? Possibly.
Every single report I have seen on this UFO or ETV business is simply that someone saw or tracked an "anomaly". An "anomaly" is something that can't easily be explained.
It could be one of the Little Purple Men From Arcturus, or it could be a miracle from Jesus, or it could be something else. Your guess is as good as mine.
But that's all you -- or I -- can do.
Guess.
Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Shaman says:
Well I'm no expert at all , but if you can detect an ETV, you can track it , monitor its movements and manuvers, record its speed, get someone on the ground in the area to visually verify the target, make triangulations, and do it all in real time.
So what are you left with, Shaman? The very best real evidence you can come up with is a possible recording or a radar trace that show something moving fast.
And what is that "something"?
There isn't a radar set around that can really identify something as deing a "this" or a "that". All you will ever be able to get under those circumstances is that there is something that appears to be moving very fast.
But could it be an aircraft whose signature is distorted by a temperature inversion? Possibly.
Every single report I have seen on this UFO or ETV business is simply that someone saw or tracked an "anomaly". An "anomaly" is something that can't easily be explained.
It could be one of the Little Purple Men From Arcturus, or it could be a miracle from Jesus, or it could be something else. Your guess is as good as mine.
But that's all you -- or I -- can do.
Guess.
[Originally posted by Alexander Tau[/I]
Anything can be researched, if the desire is there to do it. I still think the answer to the overall question of this thread is that the subject is being studied, heavily, but in secret. The USA has learned that it is potentially too huge a thing to be made public knowledge, as long as the question remains open we retain our gigantic lead in technology.
Places like Brazil give me hope though, any serious study will yield results and will open the doors for the rest of us.
In a way all the discussion in this thread should help people to realize that the case for the cover-up of information by the US is indeed pretty solid. What else would keep us from the serious research that this subject demands?
Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Originally posted by lost_shaman
Well I'm no expert at all , but if you can detect an ETV, you can track it , monitor its movements and manuvers, record its speed, get someone on the ground in the area to visually verify the target, make triangulations, and do it all in real time.
So what are you left with, Shaman? The very best real evidence you can come up with is a possible recording or a radar trace that show something moving fast.
And what is that "something"?
There isn't a radar set around that can really identify something as doing a "this" or a "that". All you will ever be able to get under those circumstances is that there is something that appears to be moving very fast.
But could it be an aircraft whose signature is distorted by a temperature inversion? Possibly.
Every single report I have seen on this UFO or ETV business is simply that someone saw or tracked an "anomaly". An "anomaly" is something that can't easily be explained.