"Why do they hate US?" (Must Read!)

"The only kind of cooperation the USA understands is one-way cooperation where other countries cooperate with the USA. Other countries must do what the USA requires or be punished."

"Since 2001-9-11, US citizens have been asking Why do they hate us so much? For most US citizens, this is a rhetorical question. They don't really want to know why. They just want to voice their belief that they are the best country in the world and have never done anything wrong. On the contrary, so they believe, they have been the most generous and helpful country in the world. Unfortunately, the facts are quite different. The USA is very good at media manipulation. Their propaganda techniques would have made Goebbels faint with delight. The USA has helped the world, but just as often, they have helped themselves -- to the resources and well-being of the world. US foreign policy is openly based completely on national self-interest, not international cooperation. The only kind of cooperation the USA understands is one-way cooperation where other countries cooperate with the USA. Other countries must do what the USA requires or be punished.
Having good advertising/propaganda technique is not in itself a bad thing, but it does mean that US citizens can't see the world clearly from within their own environment. The USA is in many ways an excellent country. The problem is that this is so often at cost to the rest of the world, both in wealth and lives. State-of-the-art media manipulation ensures that most US citizens don't know what is being done in their name. US Americans are given the mushroom treatment by their government and media, but this does not exonerate them from the responsibility to seek the facts for themselves. "

Please read the whole article....then you might find the answer to "why they hate us"

As long as there are enlightened people like the author of this article, there is hope for our world.


Edit: Caps Title


[edit on 30-4-2005 by RANT]

Siroos, although you are obviously Anti-American, I do still agree with many of your post's and points. I have even voted you for way above, on occassion.

I am an American who is ANTI-IMPERIALIST. I see all the things that you and the rest of the world see, and I honestly question why my fellow countrymen do not see the same things.

I think you have courage to come to a site that is mainly American, and Pro western, and still speak the truth.

I agree with you as well. Just because most Americans are ignorant of what their government does in their name does not exonerate them from their share of their responsibility.

The sad fact of the matter is, YES the American People are to blame for what they have allowed their government to get away with. And whether or not you believe in Karma, do unto others, or any other sense justice, we will get our due rewards. It might not be as soon as you think though.

Lets not forget that the romans had power for almost a milliniae, whilst your fellow countrymen can boast of the akkadian and Avestan periods as well.
home.btconnect.com...

Empires do not always rise and fall as we would like them to, people complained about Rome for hundreds of years before anything was ever actually done...... Just something to think about.

Very Interesting Article. Especially the Some reasons why the USA is so hated. I see these people did their research and found, no more than 83 reasons. Nice list.

I must comment one thing tho. The Article says:

US foreign policy is openly based completely on national self-interest.

Not entirely True. US foreign policy is openly based on CORPORATE INTERESTS - and Corporations are not in hands of American people. They represent the main problem in this situation. USA has gone from Democratic State to a Fascist Police State - led by a Puppet goverment, that was chosen by the side of powerful Corporations and NOT by the Majority of the American People.

And American People dont really own these Corporations, its more the other way around.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Siroos, although you are obviously Anti-American, I do still agree with many of your post's and points. I have even voted you for way above, on occassion.

I am an American who is ANTI-IMPERIALIST. I see all the things that you and the rest of the world see, and I honestly question why my fellow countrymen do not see the same things.

I think you have courage to come to a site that is mainly American, and Pro western, and still speak the truth.

I agree with you as well. Just because most Americans are ignorant of what their government does in their name does not exonerate them from their share of their responsibility.

The sad fact of the matter is, YES the American People are to blame for what they have allowed their government to get away with. And whether or not you believe in Karma, do unto others, or any other sense justice, we will get our due rewards. It might not be as soon as you think though.

Lets not forget that the romans had power for almost a milliniae, whilst your fellow countrymen can boast of the akkadian and Avestan periods as well.
home.btconnect.com...

Empires do not always rise and fall as we would like them to, people complained about Rome for hundreds of years before anything was ever actually done...... Just something to think about.

Thank you for that phoenixhasrisin. Actually, I really am not at all anti-American or anti-Western. I really do not blame the American people for anything. It's not easy to access the truth when you live in a society like the U.S. where in such an extremely PROFESSIONAL way misinformation is constantly thrown at you, and where the truth is kept locked up. I do however feel alarmed about the negative effects of some of the contemporary American culture which is being exported to every corner of the world - There is a lot of good American culture too, but these days the negatives are growing in quantity and intensity, unfortunately. I am also very much aware that there are milllions and millions of enlightened Americans like you, and that gives me hope. There are shortminded people and bigots everywhere. We have them in Iran too - some of them in powerful positions. If we the enlightened peoples of all the nations cooperate with each other, we can toghether win over arrogance and ignorance.

Originally posted by Souljah

US foreign policy is openly based completely on national self-interest.

Not entirely True. US foreign policy is openly based on CORPORATE INTERESTS -

IMHO-Partial truths please see the PNAC statement of principles as outlined on their website and please notice the signatories. AT this time in History there is little if any difference between "corporate"goals, and "national"goals.

www.newamericancentury.org...

www.newamericancentury.org...

Eric

Some reasons why the USA is so hated


Ok lets take a quick look since you hate us so damn much, heck half of this crap can be attributed to the British and French and yet......ah nevermind lets address them in bulk.....

Most of what is written only gives one side of the story,

For example:


Massive war crimes in Vietnam war - What war didnt have them? Did your Iranian troops treat Iraqi prisoners very well? I dont hear you bitching about Japan , Vietnam and North Korea's treatment of prisoners.....


Total support for Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians &
Refusal by the USA to accept Jewish refugees before WW2

And I guess Iran welcomes with open arms right? Well maybe the US was anti-semetic once, but it sure as hell is not no longer and that is one thing that IRan hates.



Causing the `Asian meltdown' through oppressive loan conditions

Ever consider that Japan and most of these countries made to many bad loans? I mean we had our savings and loan scandal they had theirs. The US did not cause the Asian crisis, as a matter of fact we brought them out of it as our economy grew.



Theft of Spanish lands in America:
Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Purchase?



Monopoly of GPS systems for world military dominance
Uh Duh we invented it, feel lucky you even have access to it.

Environmental delinquency
Well of course we withdrew, it was the world trying to gouge the # out of the US Citizen. Screw the Enviro-nazi's



War crimes in Germany in WW2
This one has no credibility at all, and Japan will probably be included next. People don't fight wars with flowers and rice, they fight it as a last result and to win it. Ah I was right (War crimes against Japan in WW2), notice no recognition of what Japan did in China.


This site is a perfect example of two-facism.



Harrassing the creation of the International Criminal Court:
Well hell yes! Iternational only means anti-US so deal with it.



Sex overseas by US Americans
What soldiers from any nation have not needed to blow a nut? What about the terrible locals that make money off it? And give the troops the diseases?



USA is protectionist - but everybody else must accept free trade:
Oh my the ignorance is amazing! Ok sugar could be one but for the most part there is a reason we are the largest market in the world.


Disparagement, sabotage, harrassment and bullying of the United Nations
This part I like, I think we should dump it and kick it to Geneva. It sucks and is a corrupt piece of #.

Killing dozens of Italian cable car passengers
People die in training all the time, here and everywhere. It was an accident and the US paid dearly for it. This is a very poor excuse here and comepletely show the flavor of crap to the site.

Ethnic cleansing of native Americans
You have one here, I guess we should all leave and give it back then.

Dismantling the British Empire
No the advent of the Tulipwalker mentality did that, the US didnt. Matter of fact 68k Americans died trying to somewhat save part of the French Empire.

US forces killed a thousand Iraqis in Fullujah in April 2004 to avenge 4 US citizens
No we took away the 'safezone' that these pieces of # were using to attack troops with road bombs like the cowards that they are.

Insistence on world oil pricing in US dollars
It should be, most of the world is done in dollars but alas that is changing, and so will the stability the world has grown used to.



Inaction over genocide in Sudan
Well since in your list every time that Americans take up arms they will be hated for it, we decided that we didn't need to be hated more. Why doesn't your beloved Iran do something about it? Oh I know why, because the government of Iran supports both directly and indirectly the government in Sudan through terrorists funding.


I want to thank you for posting that link, you have done more to affect your credibility than anything I could have. Again appreciate it!

Originally posted by Siroos
Thank you for that phoenixhasrisin. Actually, I really am not at all anti-American or anti-Western. I really do not blame the American people for anything. It's not easy to access the truth when you live in a society like the U.S. where in such an extremely PROFESSIONAL way misinformation is constantly thrown at you, and where the truth is kept locked up.

I don't know about modern day Iran but , In our courts of law...Ignorance of the law is not allowed as a defence. Perhaps it might be hard for fellow Americans to seek out the truth, but that like I said does not exonerate them from their responsibility.

Sure Americans will tell you they don't wnat our troops in other countries, yet those same americans will bitch and complain when gas is more than two dollars a gallon. It is hypocrisy at it's worse and I feel that just like the romans, the American people will pay for their transgressions, known or unknown.

I do however feel alarmed about the negative effects of some of the contemporary American culture which is being exported to every corner of the world - There is a lot of good American culture too, but these days the negatives are growing in quantity and intensity, unfortunately. I am also very much aware that there are milllions and millions of enlightened Americans like you, and that gives me hope. There are shortminded people and bigots everywhere. We have them in Iran too - some of them in powerful positions. If we the enlightened peoples of all the nations cooperate with each other, we can toghether win over arrogance and ignorance.

Yes many aspects of our "consumer"culture"do have many negative side effects, but most Americans are not even aware of these. I see what you are saying buit I dare to say that you are idealilstic, JUST LIKE ME. In our hopes that this does not turn into a full blown global war. Unfortunately things are not looking that optimistic, or bright.

Iran is a old country, or empire, that has , just as the romans, controlled most of the known world at its time. I think MANY Americans underestimate the pride of Iranians and what they are willling to do to keep their culture in tact.

Unfortunately if more people do not wake up, and realize this truth we will find ourselves (both-sides) on a one way track to no-where. One thing that I have learned through history and my studies though.......The persian Empire was the strongest in the world at one time, and can still possibly realize that potential(at least in the mid-east) to their advantage.

America is headed into a deadly mexican stand off as others have suggested, completely un-awares of the history, pride, and tradition of the Iranian people. The west will wake up to find the grave mistake that it has made.

Oddly enough tell me what you think about this. Iran as I understand means "land of the Aryans" You are the forefathers of modrn day europeans, and they still try to fight you as if you were some sort of seperate entity. Am I the only one who finds this funny (tragic)?

Originally posted by edsinger
Some reasons why the USA is so hated


Ok lets take a quick look since you hate us so damn much, heck half of this crap can be attributed to the British and French and yet......ah nevermind lets address them in bulk.....

GReat point! It was NOT America that divided up the middle east into manageable entities based on resources, that was hte french and british. However we have maintained, and fostered discontent, and regime change, be it legal or illegal to meddle in the affairs of a soverign nation.

Most of what is written only gives one side of the story,

Does not all history do that? I am sure you are familiar with the term...."history is written by the winners"

Massive war crimes in Vietnam war - What war didnt have them? Did your Iranian troops treat Iraqi prisoners very well? I dont hear you bitching about Japan , Vietnam and North Korea's treatment of prisoners.....

How can one be expected to take a stand on international issues when those very same issues are facing them at home? If I was in Iran I would worry about Iranians, and not the vietnamese, or japanese or anyone else for that matter.

Total support for Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians &
Refusal by the USA to accept Jewish refugees before WW2

And I guess Iran welcomes with open arms right? Well maybe the US was anti-semetic once, but it sure as hell is not no longer and that is one thing that IRan hates.

This is a recent phenomenon, and actually YES Iran used to be a GIANT refuge for jews.
home.btconnect.com...
home.btconnect.com...

Ever consider that Japan and most of these countries made to many bad loans? I mean we had our savings and loan scandal they had theirs. The US did not cause the Asian crisis, as a matter of fact we brought them out of it as our economy grew.

That is complete and total nonsense. Do you know how much currency China alone purchases, to stall the inevitable meltdown of the us economical system? Billions per year. If you want statistics give us time I will supply them.

Environmental delinquency
Well of course we withdrew, it was the world trying to gouge the # out of the US Citizen. Screw the Enviro-nazi's

i don't even know how to respond to that. Complete un-accountability at its worst

War crimes in Germany in WW2
This one has no credibility at all, and Japan will probably be included next. People don't fight wars with flowers and rice, they fight it as a last result and to win it. Ah I was right (War crimes against Japan in WW2), notice no recognition of what Japan did in China.

Who did Japan procure those chemical resources from in order to do that to China? Hmmmm?

Harrassing the creation of the International Criminal Court:
Well hell yes! Iternational only means anti-US so deal with it.

No International means all nations. WE abstain because we know we are guilty of war crimes comparable to Stalin and hitler.

Sex overseas by US Americans
What soldiers from any nation have not needed to blow a nut? What about the terrible locals that make money off it? And give the troops the diseases?

Say what you want, but islamic countries do NOT have as high of statistics as rape, and unwanted pregnancy, and venerial disease as those of ANY western nation.

USA is protectionist - but everybody else must accept free trade:
Oh my the ignorance is amazing! Ok sugar could be one but for the most part there is a reason we are the largest market in the world.

No we are protectionist of only ourselves, then expect others to accept the idea of free trade, while we do all we can to limit true free trade.

Killing dozens of Italian cable car passengers
People die in training all the time, here and everywhere. It was an accident and the US paid dearly for it. This is a very poor excuse here and comepletely show the flavor of crap to the site.

only point I can not argue with you on

Ethnic cleansing of native Americans
You have one here, I guess we should all leave and give it back then.

At least offer reparations not only to those you stole the land from but to those who you used to build the country (blacks) Hell EVEN German companies have paid reparations to victims of the holocaust, but us Americans think a sorry is all it takes? BS!

Dismantling the British Empire
No the advent of the Tulipwalker mentality did that, the US didnt. Matter of fact 68k Americans died trying to somewhat save part of the French Empire.

The british just like us , have no one other than themselves to balme for the dissintegration of their empire.

US forces killed a thousand Iraqis in Fullujah in April 2004 to avenge 4 US citizens

At leat you can admit it. You call road side bombs cowardice yet you approve of striking from a jet, and bombing from above with impunity as honourable? Don't make me laugh. AMerican soldiers will only touch the ground once most resistance has been ended due to excessive bombing.

Insistence on world oil pricing in US dollars
It should be, most of the world is done in dollars but alas that is changing, and so will the stability the world has grown used to.

Why because we want it to be? Fact of the matte is the British pound, and the Euro have been worth more than the dollar for years now, so why should they settle on a weak currency to trade their oil for?

Inaction over genocide in Sudan
Well since in your list every time that Americans take up arms they will be hated for it, we decided that we didn't need to be hated more. Why doesn't your beloved Iran do something about it? Oh I know why, because the government of Iran supports both directly and indirectly the government in Sudan through terrorists funding.

Perhaps because Iran is too busy trying to make sure their A*s is covered as it is more than apparent that they are the next target of American Agression

I want to thank you for posting that link, you have done more to affect your credibility than anything I could have. Again appreciate it!

Serious, I thought we were trying to talk here. No need to make veiled attacks on someone or their beliefs because they don't agree with yours

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
IMHO-Partial truths please see the PNAC statement of principles as outlined on their website and please notice the signatories. AT this time in History there is little if any difference between "corporate"goals, and "national"goals.

Yea - and what happens when you Merge Corporations and the State = A Corporate State.

And we all know where that leads to - to quote a famous person from our History books, Benito Mussolini:

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."

How proud he would have been, if he saw what America is Today.

I just wanted to add words by Vice President Henry Wallace in 1944:

"They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection."

[edit on 30/4/05 by Souljah]

And I guess Iran welcomes with open arms right? Well maybe the US was anti-semetic once, but it sure as hell is not no longer and that is one thing that IRan hates.

Actually Ed, Iran has a sizeable Jewish population, some of whom are members of parliament.

Theft of Spanish lands in America:
Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Purchase?

Wasn't that off the French Ed? Not picking, just clarifying.

Monopoly of GPS systems for world military dominance
Uh Duh we invented it, feel lucky you even have access to it.

The EU and China also have a GPS system too. Don't think it has gone live yet mind you. So the US doesn's (or won't) have a monopoly and they have been kind enough to share it

Dismantling the British Empire
No the advent of the Tulipwalker mentality did that, the US didnt. Matter of fact 68k Americans died trying to somewhat save part of the French Empire.

Well, your both off the mark there. The British Empire fell due to:

1) Germany twice starting a war which sapped Britain of the financial ability to maintain the Empire.
2) This in turn allowed rising Nationalist forces in the colonies to win independance without us really wanting to put up a fight.

Insistence on world oil pricing in US dollars
It should be, most of the world is done in dollars but alas that is changing, and so will the stability the world has grown used to.

Stability? Hmmmm.... The euro is stable as well you know Ed. Not going to get into an economic spat with you, but favouring the dolloar over the Euro citing "stability" as the reason is a bit of a weak argument.

Anyway. I think the title of this thread is slanted towards blatant "Anti-Americanism", where the world on the whole does not hate America/Americans. It is the Foreign policy which erks people, not the country or it's people.
For my part, Americans on the whole I like, they can be a little full of it, but that comes with the territory when your top dog.

Even the rabid right -wingers that call us Euro types (inclusing us Brits in their as well) as traitors/commies/pinkos or a strange name with a facination with flowers (Ed, thats at you mate , you have a strange affinity for "Tulips" and certain kinds of "blossom") I do not hate.

They can be rather amusing actually and debating them certainly makes my night shifts pass quicker

In short:

America/Americans
American Foreign policy and 1-way street with regards to certain things

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
IMHO-Partial truths please see the PNAC statement of principles as outlined on their website and please notice the signatories. AT this time in History there is little if any difference between "corporate"goals, and "national"goals.

Yea - and what happens when you Merge Corporations and the State = A Corporate State.

And we all know where that leads to - to quote a famous person from our History books, Benito Mussolini:

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."

How proud he would have been, if he saw what America is Today.

I can't argue with something I agree with.......

Honestly IMHO- I think hitler, and Mussolinni gave facism a bad name....
[awaits crucification]

Iternational only means anti-US so deal with it.

It wouldn't have to be anti-US if the US was a bit less anti-Everyone-other than-us so often.

Honestly IMHO- I think hitler, and Mussolinni gave facism a bad name....

I agree.

Without the genocidal ideals that Hitler seemed to love and feed off, the actual way the countries where run was very well and things where done.

Econmoy picked up. People had jobs. National Pride was restored.

Without the subsequent incarceration of "untermenschen" (and the labelling thereof) and subsequent killing and war, I believe Facism would survive to this day in Germany/Italy and would prbably serve as a good model of how to run a country. Things got done.

In the UK here, things don't get done because the Politicians care to much about votes and what the Sun says to actually put into practice policies which would quickly solve many problems, just because they might piss a few people off.

Just to re-itterate though........... The killing was bad!

[edit on 30/4/05 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason

Honestly IMHO- I think hitler, and Mussolinni gave facism a bad name....

I agree.

Without the genocidal ideals that Hitler seemed to love and feed off, the actual way the countries where run was very well and things where done.

Econmoy picked up. People had jobs. National Pride was restored.

Without the subsequent incarceration of "untermenschen" (and the labelling thereof) and subsequent killing and war, I believe Facism would survive to this day in Germany/Italy and would prbably serve as a good model of how to run a country. Things got done.

Just to re-itterate though........... The killing was bad!

[edit on 30/4/05 by stumason]

Thank you sir. AS someone who used to live in London I can attest to your statements about your govenrment.

Take out racial superiority, and facism is the ideal gvoernment for human beings.

An entity that has proven time and time again that the masses can not be trusted and need to rely on others to make their decisions for them.

Unfortunately for people like us, hitler, and mussollini already ruined that possibilty. Perhaps that was their sole intention, who knows?

One of his first attempts of spreading hatred.
The US is responsible for the murder of 150,000 innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. An actual estimate of Iraqi civilian deaths (the names of the people and how they died) would be about 25,000. The 100,000 is an overestimate. It seems your friend tends to like the higher death toll, I can understand to, yeah good way to get your point across eh.

"6. Total support for Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians" for the fact that he spent nearly a page on bashing the Israelis give me the notion that this man is your average jewish hating racist.

"13. Refusal by the USA to accept Jewish refugees before WW2" I can hardly imagine that Hitler decided to kill off 6 million jews simply because the US couldn't afford them (remember poverty was at an all time high in the US 13 million to be exact.). Oh and he doesn't seem to point out any other countries who turned down the jews.

"14. Lack of empathy for suffering in poor countries"
" US citizens have absolutely no comprehension of how much other countries suffer."
You first need to experience America before you can put yourself in it; and we seem to pay the highest amount of money for poverty victims, yet you say we know nothing about it.

"15. Arrogant, conceited nationalism: US citizens have a general attitude that they are rich because they are superior. This is totally explicitly stated, especially on ceremonial occasions. The reason the USA is rich is for many reasons, including very successful exploitation of other countries, the fact that they came into World Wars I and II very late when other countries were exhausted, the geographical isolation of the USA, the fertile land which they took from the indigenous people (whom they largely exterminated), and their homogeneous language and culture."

apparently your friend wants the US to enter wars alot earlier, yet argues that the US is a war monger. Infact before WWII the US reduced its military size to about 150 thousand men. It was Asian and European powers that caused us to go back to war.


"23. Attempted invasion of Cuba" 1961. Russia was arming Cuba with nukes. Well I guess your friend figured the world would be better off with a nuclear holocaust.


"25. Support for Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan" During the Vietnam war, the Soviet Union armed the NVA down to their teeth. Causing the deaths of 58,000 americans. Infact, Vietnam was to stop communism from spreading, we armed the Afghan rebels because of communsim and it worked. I guess you figured the Afghan civilians would be better off with communism.


"30. Corrupt, undemocratic US voting system" ???, you know hate is very strong word. It should be used for real purposes and not for dirty excuses in your attempt to create hatred.


"31. Corrupt political lobbying in the USA" one thing that really sticks out. "The jewish lobbying causes the US government to support horrible human rights abuses in occupied Palestine" yep a neo-nazi.


"41. War crimes in Germany in WW2" I don't much about the US occupation of Germany near the end of WWII, for the fact that Russia is the country that sticks out mostly. I hear little to nothing of war crimes by the US during the fight for Berlin. Mostly Russian crimes, even Germans know very little of crimes committed by US soldiers. Although im not implying that they didn't happen, simply saying that bombing targets in a civilian city is impossible to avoid innocent lives.


"42. First use of nuclear weapons in Japan in WW2"

This topic states that the Japanese attempted to surrender and the US refused, simply for the idea of testing out nukes. The truth is, that Hiko Hirohito had not tried to surrender. Infact the Japanese were preparing for a battle on their mainland. An estimated 1 million would die and even worse was the fact that many many more would have died from suicide. In order to end the war and save lives on both sides we were forced to use the bomb. Im not denying that officals were interested in its capabilities not at all. We had already tested it on certain subjects, but it remains a conspiracy.

"43. War crimes against Japan in WW2: The USA fire-bombed Tokyo, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, simply with the intention of terrorising the population. This is a serious war crime."

In WW2's most defining moments, were money was cut short and lives were unbearble the US decides to spend untold of money on ammunition and fuel for the soul purpose to terrorize japanese civilians.


"44. Murder of innocent thousands in Sudan" don't remember us killing any sudanese.


"45. Callous, calculated delay in WW2 participation: During the Second World War, the USA was originally planning to send about 215 army divisions to Europe in 1943 to remove the Nazis. But they worked out that this would affect their economy. So they changed their plans and sent only 90 divisions in 1944. As a result, the US economy improved during the World War II, while the economy of Europe contracted by about 25%. during the extra year, several million more people died, including a few million people in concentration camps such as the European Jews. This proves that the USA values its own economy much more than the lives of millions of innocent people in other countries. The US entry into WW2 was in the US interests, not an altruistic act. Until Pearl Harbour, the US was pro-nazi. The US only decided to take the side of democracy in Europe when it was clearly in the USA's self-interest to do so. "


Only a fool jeapardizes his countries future in one blow. If we crippled out economy will in the mid of war what good are we??? We were depending on our economy. We knew very very little of what was going on in the concentration camps during 43'. The US wasn't pro-nazi at all, infact were supplying Britian and its allies with money, ships and weapons, while the war was waging without us.


"55. Export of puritan morality, causing massive AIDS deaths" The only safe sex is no sex at all.

"74. The master plan to subjugate the entire Middle East" we haven't stated in anyway of taking over the middle east. its called propaganda.

"US Americans should never forget that the USA is a colony created by theft." yeah from Europeans.


Ironically he didn't take the time to post Americas good fortunes, but he didn't manage to give others a head start....... nasa.

I want to just correct some misconceptions over what seeming is being described here in this thread as the 'acceptabe' elements of fascism... mainly the misconception that these states in the 30s (Italy and Germany primarily, but this could go for the inter war central european dictatorships as well) had somhow developed viable economic models and efficient potilital order in society, with war and ethnic issues somehow letting it all down.

The Third Reich's economy was wholly dependant on the plundering of captured resources and treasrure from the countries it invaded. While the Keynesian-esq national works programs and massive arms spending had kickstarted the economy out of the Weimar chaos, it was wholly unsustainable, and only negliably eased by the (again) plunder of Jewsih and other domestic sources of revenue. Italy's economy actually retained it's fragile pre war state until it collapsed under the prssures of war and bad management. In Germany's case, it was the massive scientific talent and sheer shocking ingenuity (similar to that amazing british talent for pulling out the stops that kept her the victor in the early stages of the war, against all the odds) that kept the crazyness going for as long as it did!!!

Anyhoo.. drunkenly going off the point even more...

What makes fascism at all 'effective' for the ordering of human society is WHOLLY the racial imperetives.. so if you like killing jews n stuff.. its all good. Otherwise, the rest is wholly flawed, even in its own right... as the 'acceptable' elements...

Oh,,, I & agree with the orginal posting.. although the article in the link tries to hard.. sails close to the wind on some points (wholly unnessaryily)

Originally posted by Qoelet
The Third Reich's economy was wholly dependant on the plundering of captured resources and treasrure from the countries it invaded. While the Keynesian-esq national works programs and massive arms spending had kickstarted the economy out of the Weimar chaos, it was wholly unsustainable, and only negliably eased by the (again) plunder of Jewsih and other domestic sources of revenue.

I do not know who you are adressing, however I can not argue with you that their resources and riches were plundered; however the vitality of the state did not rest on those thefts due to the very fact that they were hidden away and hardly ever sold for any price. So how did this plundering ever help germany or italy?

Anyhoo.. drunkenly going off the point even more...

What makes fascism at all 'effective' for the ordering of human society is WHOLLY the racial imperetives.. so if you like killing jews n stuff.. its all good. Otherwise, the rest is wholly flawed, even in its own right... as the 'acceptable' elements...

Really I would cae for your proofs of this. As already mentioned the material plundered from the jews was NEVER sold! So what actually did they gain from this plunder? A bunker full of priceless art? The only things the nazis gained from the subjugation of the jews was forced labour, as they never liquidized ANY of the assets that were seized. So I will respectfully say....your point is?

Sorry I didn't mean to get off topic and I can't edit or erase my post for some reason......ANyways my bad