Pushing free speech too far?

Well, I recall my nephew telling me once about a recent occurance at his school.

For the 'Earth Day' celebrations, a guest speaker came to talk about how the Phillipines needed to be cleaned up because of toxic waste there.

That's all fine, right? 'Course the speaker couldn't stop there. She went on about how the "imperial facist U.S." was "war-mongering" there - DURING WW2!

She claimed that the world would be waste-free without the U.S., and that it was the "white facists" behind this.

Well, hey, that is some free-speech isn't it? But of course, the students were forced to listen to this and not allowed out.


Since WHEN has racial slander become free-speech? Not only was she incorrect in many of her assumptions, but the slander is what got me going. This country is too politically-correct to too many people, this case isn't the first - nor the last.

-wD

Originally posted by James the Lesser

What you do is what "someone"(not going to name) did and get all the charts and fancy things together about all the people the church/christianity has killed through the years and pass it out. Helps if you have a printer or a friend who does. Anyways, so you get the millions killed in Inquisitions, trials, slaughters, massacers, crusades, Indians, and the people killed due to everything that would save them was banned/satan, or died because something like cats were killed, so something spread and wiped out a 3rd of the population of Europe when it shouldn't have.(Black Plague)

yes lets just blaim ALL christians for the acts of a spacific group, get it right it was the CATHOLIC church that did most if not all of that under church decree. i'm not so sure who all was involved with the cat killing, but it was nothing that is in the bible to kill cats. to be honest the bible does not suport any of these acts.

Then a section on the genocide of Africa by the church today.

not something that i am familiar with what genocide in africa? and what church is comitting these acts?

No GE Food, no medicine, no condoms, nothing that would save millions from disease and starvation for it is playing god/sin/satan.

where does the bible say no genetic modified foods? i know i have read something about makeing chimeras( mix and matching animal parts from differant creatures to make a new one, it would take some time to find the passage). personaly i distrust gm foods, not because i am told it is bad but because i distrust all the "tinkering" that is done, i feel that they could have some unknown side effects. if you want it go right ahead. it is your life after all.

Also, if you want, get all the Rape Babies, Kill Everyone, slaughter the Masses, so forth, quotes in the bible and print them up and do the same. A good one to use is the one ordering christians to kill kids who act up, it's in the same chapter and in most cases the same page as the Gays are Evil quote. Have fun.

you will note that it is in the old testiment, ie: jewish law. we now have had the perfect sacrifice, so that ANY sin can be forgiven. we are taught by jesus to have compassion for these sinners, it says nothing about killing them. we have been released from haveing to kill people for their sins, just as we were released from the diatary restrictions. note they are still sins however, but you CAN be forgiven for them. and just to let you know in the old testiment it does also mention killing gays as well fyi.

(BTW, I want to sign the clipboard, or, make a clipboard and do the same thing, anyone who doesn't want to be raped by a priest, sign this clipboard)

this statement is totaly irrelivant as the students in question are NOT said to be catholic, most christion ministers or pasters don't seem to have this afliction, (there is always the possibility of course just as with any other human). and lets be honest about it, ALL CATHOLIC PRIESTS ARE NOT RAPEISTS JUST A FEW, (again just like every other human, though they do tend to seemingly have a larger sampleing than average, probably due to their "forced celibacy" btw this is IN FACT going against the rules as to be celibate means NO SEX).

i agree that these kids went overboard if they were "yelling" and "pointing out" sinners. but lets be honest about it. they were proveing a point i think. there is no good reason that they should be outlawed for useing free speach, or from being able to pray in school. to me this looks like ity was a protest of these BIASED LAWS. perhapse all this was done just to prove a point by seeing all the outrage that would result from what they did. i remember when we could have christion meetings on lunch, and after school.there was an unused room that we could use for bible study, we were not afecting anyone in this. even now there should be no problem with a kid respecting his god by praying over his lunch, (and if caff food is still as bad as it was then, this would also include praying thata it would not kill you ).

also if they INSIST on teaching THEORIES like evolution, and the "big bang" theory then it is only right that creatian be taught as well as a possible alternate, mabe even some other religious views on how we came to be. as NO THEORY can be considered fact, they are all just THEORYS that all take FAITH to believe. non christions often use our faith in creation to chastise us, well guess what you put your FAITH in a piece of rubbish and i will put mine in what you may considder to be rubbish. all theories on how we got here are not proven and can not be proven. so why is one FALSELY toted as being true? is this not a bias?

You know what you should do? You and your friends should organize a free speech rally at your school saying "freedom of religon" and "Seperation of Church and State!" Don't let people like this intimidate you. If they attack you or call you any names just call them "hipocrites."

By the way, I am also a Christain also

Unless a self-proclaimed christian has the attitude "I'd like you to follow the one true god, but if you don't then that's your choice and I respected that', then you can write them off as a fraud.

True christianity is all about compassion & love. That is what has turned me away from it. Nowadays christianity seems to be all about making non-christians feel like the scum of the earth or at the very last below "real" christians. Hell the US even has members in government letting religion get into politics with the whole bomb-muslims campaign.

This is why I'm now agnostic. There is less extremist views and behaviour and it allows for multiple beliefs, because there is no one set god that's better than all the rest, there is just an idea/theory of god.

If I were you the next time this happens I would

a) Get photos and/or video footage of the "revolution"

b) Take a tape recorder in with me to record the principal saying he can't do anything. Before you do that however look up the laws that cover such matters and make sure to have a copy of the important bits with you when you see him to use as evidence as to why he should take action. I thought religion was not allowed at public schools with the exception of religious education classes, which are not compulsory?

c) Have a muslim "revolution". if you get told to shutup by the principal, then it's time to goto the media, and find a good lawyer to sue the school. See if you can get people supporting you to cover and legal costs if need be. Be careful though this could attract the attention of governmental authorities...what with the whole Osama-blow-harder thing and all

when someone gets a bright idea
and stirs the pot with hate

look what happens
everyone wants to get rid of freedom of speech

shame on everyone

abusing free speech
then letting the abuser destroy free speech?

this is absolutely rediculous

its called FREEDOM....you IGNORE THEM

you make a Choice plain and simple
either
"I want to Ignore this Loser"
or
"I will stand here and grant them my attention"

you are responsible for what choices you make
so do not blame anyone but yourself

if you pour gasoline into the fire it doesnt put it out
rather; it ignites it further

Next time you see them preaching hate;
Start Yelling this
"Everyone Ignore these Losers!! If we Ignore them they will give up and go home!!"
It will work you will defeat them

What they have done is a clear violation of the seperation of church and state. They have the freedom to say, organize a youth group, and gather and talk amongst themselves, hang out together, ect. What they dont have the right to do to preach on school property. No one has the right to try and enforce any sort of view, religous or secular upon people.

What they did was not free speech, but constituted harrassment, from the sounds of it. Preaching belongs in the pulpit, not in the school. School is for the education of life basics.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
when someone gets a bright idea
and stirs the pot with hate

look what happens
everyone wants to get rid of freedom of speech

shame on everyone

abusing free speech
then letting the abuser destroy free speech?

this is absolutely rediculous

its called FREEDOM....you IGNORE THEM

you make a Choice plain and simple
either
"I want to Ignore this Loser"
or
"I will stand here and grant them my attention"

you are responsible for what choices you make
so do not blame anyone but yourself

if you pour gasoline into the fire it doesnt put it out
rather; it ignites it further

Next time you see them preaching hate;
Start Yelling this
"Everyone Ignore these Losers!! If we Ignore them they will give up and go home!!"
It will work you will defeat them

I think that would work, except for one problem...
They are already getting plenty attention from other christians at the school, including some teachers it seems.
So even if others try to ignore them, they will not stop.
Our school is a good percentage Christians, so they have no problem gaining the support they need to keep this up.

I wonder if the unrest it causes is worth allowing their fantastic exercise of free speech.

Oops, I combined two threads!

No I didn't. LOL, I'm confusing myself! Calgon take me away ...

Back on topic,

Muzzleflash, I would agree with you that they should ignore the 'revolution' people and even shout out 'ignore the losers' IF this had occurred on a college campus. But it happened on a high school campus and when you single a person out and over a microphone in front of the school call them a 'sinner' that is harrassment and a form of bullying.

This might be a dumb question but does 'freedom of speech' apply to minors?

Jemison


[edit on 2-5-2005 by Jemison]

[edit on 2-5-2005 by Jemison]

All laws except those with direct age referals technically apply to everyone.

I say one word:Lawsuit

Now it is all taken care of...

Apparently the principle went to the board of directors who said it is perfectly fine (though for some reason I doubt they were told of the things such as calling people sinners).

However, after hearing this, a petition was started. A petition that never had the chance to reach me, already had the 400 required signatures to make them move it into a classroom, which is fine with me, makes it no different than say our Christian Athletes Club. So a full sixth of our student population signed it, and I didn't even hear about it till the next day, so obviously a LOT more people had a problem with it than they thought.

If this were to happen anywhere else, I would say petition, if that doesn't work, then well... can't do anything but lawsuit, that is, if it is like this little show of theology was.

Thanks for your ideas fellow ATS'ers

Thanks for letting us know what happened. It sounds like a good solution was found.

I am still curious to know what they will do with the names of people who signed the clipboard. If you find out, let us know!

Jemison