Psalms prophesies

Originally posted by Shonet1430
G-d is my savior. He said I need no other.

Jesus is God, so problem solved from the Bible point of view on that one.

Answering the others will be a slow process, as I also have kids.

Jesus is God, so problem solved from the Bible point of view on that one.

To you, but not to me as G-d said he was not a man and does not change.

Answering the others will be a slow process, as I also have kids.

Well take your time.

Originally posted by Shonet1430

World Peace

1. "And he [Messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." -- Isaiah 2:4

2. "He [Messiah] will destroy death forever." -- Isaiah 25:8

3. "Then the inhabitants of the cities of Israel will go out and make fire and feed them with the weapons -- shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, clubs and spears; they shall use them as fuel for seven years." -- Ezekiel 39:9

#1 When Jesus returns physically to the earth to rule and reign, sin will be dealt with immediately. I heard last night on the news that China has the third largest military budget in the world, and the U.S. govt. is questioning them on this. They are wondering why they are spending so much, when it doesn't appear they are on anyone's hit list. When Christ returns the time and effort of the people of the world and resources will not be spent on military purposes. Things that used to be spent to build a tank or bomb etc., will now be spent on things that build up instead of tearing down. Right now little kids 2, 3 and 4 years old, sit in front of a video game system and learn how to fight and destroy. When Jesus returns what is learned will be things that prosper mankind and not turn him/her into an animal.

#2 The KJV says He will swallow up death in victory. When Adam and Eve fell spiritual death entered them immediately, and physical death became a part of human existence. Jesus died for sin and rose again. If someone receives Christ that person's spirit is reborn and while someone may still die physically, when Christ returns and bodies are changed and resurrected and eternity begins, physical and spiritual death will no longer be a part of man's existence. They will be forever, out of existence.

#3 I don't have an answer for what this one means. It deals with the war of gog and magog.

[edit on 5-6-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Shonet1430
Universal Knowledge of G-d

#1"For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. -- Isaiah 11:9

#2"And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or shall one teach his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know Me, from their smallest to their greatest," says the Lord" -- Jeremiah 31:33

#3"All who survive of all those nations that came up against Jerusalem shall make a pilgrimage year by year to bow low to the King Lord of Hosts and to observe the feasts." -- Zechariah 14:16

#4"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one." -- Zechariah 14:9

#5"Thus said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold -- they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you."
-- Zachariah 8.23

#1 When Jesus returns mankind won't be striving and fighting against each other, we will be striving to know God, and He will be with us making this acheivable.

#2 basically the same as #1

#3 From what I understand some nations(as in countries, but I suppose it could mean people) will still be around during the millennium. The people of the world will recognize Jesus as Lord of the universe.

#4 People now, say there are different "Gods". When Christ returns it will be known that there is only one God in the universe

#5 I don't know the timetable on this one, if it's during the tribulation or after that. I guess what I get out of it is, that Jews are probably the most hated people ever and Israel the most hated country. Some day that will not be the case, people will no longer look down on the Jewish race but will turn to them for help.

[edit on 5-6-2005 by dbrandt]

You say you don't believe in the other things also(especially Jesus) so most of what I say will mean nothing to you.

Technically, no it won't matter but I'm curious as to how you reconcile the things that are not true but a Christian twistation.

The first few verses could describe the rapture. Whenever the rapture does occur that should mean something to the jews and the world(whether they recognize it right away or not) because the tribulation period can then arrive. But since you don't believe in the tribulation this won't make a difference to you.

Keyword in the first sentence...could. But it's not. Also, there is no tribulation in Judaism so why would it be of importance to me? G-d gave us his revelations and rules to live by and it did not include a tribulation, rapture, or condeming people to hell as if he were Hitler standing there himself sorting people as they get off the train. I think I'll stick by what G-d said to us.

From your responses I get the feeling you are a little worked up. So I actually hesitate to answer too many of your questions. Why, because it will then give you more opportunity to get more worked up. And as a result of that you could make some comments that could be an opportunity for you to make statements that would be offensive to me and others and even God. So I'll play it by ear.

First, this is the internet. Passion, tone, etc all get washed aside. You can't really convey things properly. Therefore, you are assuming that I'm worked up when in all actuality, I could care less. Furthermore, I do not make comments that would be offensive to G-d. Also, who you are calling G-d is obviously very different than who I am referring to. Now, offensive to you, maybe. Offensive to others, maybe too. Do I care? Not really because I don't have to abide by time constraining commands/laws given by G-d including love your neighbor. Thank G-d I'm a Jew!

#1 When Jesus returns physically to the earth to rule and reign, sin will be dealt with immediately.

He's out of the running as the Jewish moshiach. He died. He didn't do the list of things required. There is no prophecy about the moshiach dying. It's just that simple.

I heard last night on the news that China has the third largest military budget in the world, and the U.S. govt. is questioning them on this. They are wondering why they are spending so much, when it doesn't appear they are on anyone's hit list.

All empires fall. If America doesn't learn to keep it's nose to itself, it too will fall probably quicker than anticipated.

When Christ returns the time and effort of the people of the world and resources will not be spent on military purposes. Things that used to be spent to build a tank or bomb etc., will now be spent on things that build up instead of tearing down. Right now little kids 2, 3 and 4 years old, sit in front of a video game system and learn how to fight and destroy. When Jesus returns what is learned will be things that prosper mankind and not turn him/her into an animal.

I thought everyone will be in heaven or hell, minus the 144k Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc (depending on who is interpreting).

#2 The KJV says He will swallow up death in victory.

First things first, KJV is the crappiest translation.

When Adam and Eve fell spiritual death entered them immediately, and physical death became a part of human existence.

Physical death was ALWAYS a part of human existence. Read Genesis again. Make sure to read the part that says, "And the L-RD G-d said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.' Did you miss that part? Man had the ability to be in the garden and eat from ANY tree one of which was the tree of life. Therefore, immortality is just another faulty interpretation and shows what happens when people pick and choose.

Jesus died for sin and rose again.

So G-d had to do this for whom? Why would he have to manifest himself to fix something? If he's all powerful and all knowing, then he should be able to wiggle a finger and make things happen. He did not have to become human and then commit suicide. If he did, then he's not all powerful.

If someone receives Christ that person's spirit is reborn and while someone may still die physically, when Christ returns and bodies are changed and resurrected and eternity begins, physical and spiritual death will no longer be a part of man's existence. They will be forever, out of existence.

I don't buy it. G-d gave me promises as a Jew and I think I'll stick to those. But don't forget, G-d also made a way for Gentiles that doesn't include him committing suicide. For me to "accept Jesus" would be for me, committing a sin against G-d. There is a law in Deuteronomy that is one of the laws above laws and that is to protect myself. We Jews must do so from the proselytizers and cults like Jews for Jesus.

#3 I don't have an answer for what this one means. It deals with the war of gog and magog.

Has that happened? At what point on the Christian timeline does it happen? And it means just what it says. Peace. No war. Weapons destroyed.

#1 When Jesus returns mankind won't be striving and fighting against each other, we will be striving to know God, and He will be with us making this acheivable.

So then Isaiah is lying? The scripture says, "For the earth shall be full of knowledge of the L-rd..." So in your opinion, Isaiah must be lying since he says we will KNOW.

#2 basically the same as #1

Same thing. Jeremiah is lying too?

#3 From what I understand some nations(as in countries, but I suppose it could mean people) will still be around during the millennium. The people of the world will recognize Jesus as Lord of the universe.

Um no. There is no "millennium" or Jesus in Judaism. So how could this verse be talking about the universal knowledge of Jesus during the millennium? Do you celebrate Jewish holidays?

#4 People now, say there are different "Gods". When Christ returns it will be known that there is only one God in the universe

Are there not? Does G-d not say in the Torah that there are other gods? Who created the other gods? Does the all powerful creator G-d not give people the knowledge to create them should they just be man made?

#5 I don't know the timetable on this one, if it's during the tribulation or after that. I guess what I get out of it is, that Jews are probably the most hated people ever and Israel the most hated country. Some day that will not be the case, people will no longer look down on the Jewish race but will turn to them for help.

Being a Jew isn't a "race." As for being the most hated? Not sure. Most persecuted? Quite possibly. That's okay though because there is a saying that every generation will spring forth another to persecute us. We are in exile so we deal with what is given to us. But the passage again has NOTHING to do with tribulation as that is NOT a part of our heritage.

Originally posted by Shonet1430

#1 When Jesus returns physically to the earth to rule and reign, sin will be dealt with immediately.

He's out of the running as the Jewish moshiach. He died. He didn't do the list of things required. There is no prophecy about the moshiach dying. It's just that simple.

How then, do we explain the words of the prophet Daniel?

Daniel 9:26
After the sixty-two "sevens," the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Also, since this is about Psalms, let's not forget Psalm 16: 10-11

...you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

We read that the Holy One is in the grave, and yet we also see him victorious at the Lord's right hand. David isn't speaking of himself. It's a prophecy about the Messiah. If you search the scriptures you'll find that there are two Messiahs that were foretold. One is the suffering Messiah, and the other is a victorious Messiah. You can read detailed prophecies of His death in Psalms 22.

Isaiah also speaks of Him being "despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows" (Isaiah 53) and yet declares that He will be called "Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

The two Messiahs aren't two different Messiahs. These prophecies foretell the two different roles that the Messiah is to carry out. Very strange and mysterious indeed. Let me direct you to www.messiahrevealed.org... . This site is dedicated to scripture on the Messianic prophecy and it's fulfillment. Not much fluff on this site. It simply list scriptures, and then follows up with a short paragraph with some thoughts.

Browse the site by book (Psalms in this case) or if you wish, there are commentaries you can read as well to dive deeper into the subject.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
So then Isaiah is lying? The scripture says, "For the earth shall be full of knowledge of the L-rd..." So in your opinion, Isaiah must be lying since he says we will KNOW.

Yes, you all will know the L-ord. Perhaps not personally, but you will know.
I believe this prophecy will be fullfilled very soon.
The key words however, have been overlooked.
They are "earth" and "full"

How then, do we explain the words of the prophet Daniel?

How do we? I don't know how we do but I can tell you how I do.

And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

What part do you want me to explain? Well this verse is poorly translated. Also, it says anointed one which is not about Jesus. Furthermore, the verse is about G-d's anointed king...Cyrus and the rebuilding of the Temple. (see also Ezra 1.1 and Isaiah 4.1) And last, the quoted verse is a statement made by an angel to Daniel who had a problem understanding the word of Jeremiah. G-d sent the angel to give him a clear understanding. See v 22...And he enabled me to understand, and he spoke with me, and he said, "Daniel, now I have come forth to make you skillful in understanding. Also, I could suggest a concordance search for cutting off. You'll see what it truly means. It has nothing to do with killing your god.

Also, since this is about Psalms, let's not forget Psalm 16: 10-11

...you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Let's first look at Psalm 1.1: A michtam of David. Notice the keywords....of and David.

NKJV-A Michtam of David.
RSV-A Miktam of David.
Noah Webster-Michtam of David.
Young-A Secret Treasure of David.
Darby-(Michtam of David)
ASV-Michtam of David
HNV-Poem by David

Now that verse one is cleared up, let's move on to 10-11. For you will not abandon me to Sheol, or let your faithful one see the Pit. You will teach me the path of life. In your presence is perfect joy; delights are ever in Your right hand.

We read that the Holy One is in the grave, and yet we also see him victorious at the Lord's right hand. David isn't speaking of himself. It's a prophecy about the Messiah. If you search the scriptures you'll find that there are two Messiahs that were foretold. One is the suffering Messiah, and the other is a victorious Messiah. You can read detailed prophecies of His death in Psalms 22.

No, no, wrong, wrong. Sheol is the place of death so commonly called by Christians...hell. So why translate it as grave in one spot and hell in another? KJV For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. So is the Holy One in hell? In the grave? As for sitting at the right hand, the right hand is more powerful than the left. 118.16 The right hand of the L-rd is exalted. The right hand of the lord is triumphant. Moving on to the two messiahs. No actually there isn't. Psalm 22-For the leader, on ayyeleth ha-shahar. A psalm of David. Says the same things in other versions as well. So the chief musician is the second messiah? I challenge you to tell me which word in those two Psalms are Hebrew for moshiach. Thanks. Oh and David does sit at the right hand.

Isaiah also speaks of Him being "despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows" (Isaiah 53) and yet declares that He will be called "Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Isaiah 53 is not messianic. You must start at Isaiah 49 and read to 57 to get the full gist. These are the prophecies of Zion, not Jesus. And I love that you bring up the prince of peace. I'm sure undies will start bunching right now. It's not about Jesus. It's not messianic. It's Hezekiah. Or Yassar Arafat since he was also called Prince of Peace. Kidding, it's not about him but he was called that.

The two Messiahs aren't two different Messiahs. These prophecies foretell the two different roles that the Messiah is to carry out. Very strange and mysterious indeed. Let me direct you to www.messiahrevealed.org... . This site is dedicated to scripture on the Messianic prophecy and it's fulfillment. Not much fluff on this site. It simply list scriptures, and then follows up with a short paragraph with some thoughts.

The funny part is that those are messianic scriptures. That's Christian twistation on Jewish text. See my post to dbrandt for a list of messianic requirements. And please, like him, tell me how Jesus did those things.

Browse the site by book (Psalms in this case) or if you wish, there are commentaries you can read as well to dive deeper into the subject.

I don't need to dive deeper into the subject. I know the subject rather well. Let me ask you this...how do YOU explain the words of Jeremiah who says that a ruler will not come out of the line of Jeconiah again? See Jesus' lineage for where I'm going with this.

Yes, you all will know the L-ord. Perhaps not personally, but you will know.
I believe this prophecy will be fullfilled very soon.
The key words however, have been overlooked.
They are "earth" and "full"

I'm not sure what to say or where you're going with that.

Shonet1430

So I beleive Jesus is the Savior and you don't. The Bible clearly tells us He will be rejected by most Jews. Is there a point for me continuing on with the answer to the other Bible verses, or should I quit? as it won't matter because you and I see Jesus in a different light.

When I used disease in another post it was in quotes and I meant this to represent sin so that it could be viewed in a different way and hopefully maybe someone would see and understand the problem a little better. Leprosy is symbolic of sin and leprosy is a disease that can , when viewed sybolically, cause someone to grasp and have a better understanding of spiritual matters.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
Im not sure what to say or where you're going with that.

How true. Not many are sure.

It'l come, give it time.

And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

What part do you want me to explain? Well this verse is poorly translated. Also, it says anointed one which is not about Jesus. Furthermore, the verse is about G-d's anointed king...Cyrus and the rebuilding of the Temple.

now you're catcin' on, Aim.

How true. Not many are sure.

It'l come, give it time.

I shall wait then!

And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

What part do you want me to explain? Well this verse is poorly translated. Also, it says anointed one which is not about Jesus. Furthermore, the verse is about G-d's anointed king...Cyrus and the rebuilding of the Temple.

now you're catcin' on, Aim.

So long as I got something right!

So I beleive Jesus is the Savior and you don't.

How do you reconcile the curse of Jeconiah?

The Bible clearly tells us He will be rejected by most Jews.

That's your twistation.

Is there a point for me continuing on with the answer to the other Bible verses, or should I quit? as it won't matter because you and I see Jesus in a different light.

We will continue to see Jesus in a different light but it's called learn something. Learning the truth about the scriptures should allow you to strengthen your faith and not threaten it. I know a minister who will openly say that there is nothing about Jesus in the Tanakh. He is by far, the smartest Christian I have met. He doesn't need a proof text or to pick and choose things to support his belief in Jesus. Far too many people worship their Bible without even realizing it. I think you perhaps might be one of those. You don't seek understanding outside of that binding so you tie G-d up with it. You're probably showing hostility toward me because you belong to one of those groups that believe Jews have horns and are of the 'devil' (per John 8.44).

When I used disease in another post it was in quotes and I meant this to represent sin so that it could be viewed in a different way and hopefully maybe someone would see and understand the problem a little better. Leprosy is symbolic of sin and leprosy is a disease that can , when viewed sybolically, cause someone to grasp and have a better understanding of spiritual matters.

I'm at a loss here. I have no clue what you're talking about. I'll have to re-read and get back to you on this one.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
You're probably showing hostility toward me because you belong to one of those groups that believe Jews have horns and are of the 'devil' (per John 8.44).

How and where am I showing hostility toward you? If I was I would admit it, but I'm not , and that bothers me.

If there was anyone in the world that I thought had horns and was of the devil it would be my exwife, but I don't think that of her, so I wouldn't think it of anyone else.

It bothers me when others put their words in my mouth.

[edit on 7-6-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Shonet1430
How do you reconcile the curse of Jeconiah?

Never heard of it before this, so I did a search and found plenty of places to say it's not a problem. One of them is this one
www.lifeofchrist.com...

We're getting way off topic here. Remember this thread is about Prophecies in Psalms.


For other discussions such as Jesus in the Old Testament try this thread.

We're getting way off topic here. Remember this thread is about Prophecies in Psalms.

I disagree to an extent. Showing proof in other places show why these prophecies are asinine and not relevant at all. But I promise that I have written my response to dbrandt and it includes a passage from Psalms! Just for you!!!!

How and where am I showing hostility toward you? If I was I would admit it, but I'm not , and that bothers me.

You're probably misunderstanding my use of hostility. I don't mean it necessarily as war like but more of an opposition of principle. Essentially that's what Christianity does to Judaism.