F-22 to enter full production.

umm.. the bit about Russia have the superiority...until the F-22..

umm.. the bit about Russia have the superiority...until the F-22..

And btw W4rlord, just a point worth noting,.. You were initially of the opinion that theF-15 (AESA equipped) would beat any Su-30 (MKI/MKK/MK2/MK3/MKM) hollow..
Now you seem to think otherwise..May I inquire the reason for the change in heart?..

I were?

Never was, just got bored of arguing about it, after all what can you do if they don't accept the truth?

Oh,or maybe you were talking about the F-22, since some people believe that a Su-30 can shoot down a F-22 at BVR ranges, which is quite impossible given the F-22's stealth features.

[edit on 30/4/05 by W4rl0rD]

Naw.. It was that fallout of after the Cope India exercises..remember..
Everybody was like .."AESA equipped.. those F-15s would have beaten the Su's

Not me anyway.. I remember saying that a heavily modded Su-27 could take on a F-15, which was a trick question, since the Su-30MKI is basically just a Su-27 with a refuelling probe, canards, NO-11M BARS radar, more sophisticated avonics suite etc. I still remember some guy saying that the Indians had the use of a simulated AWACs, god, that was a simulated AWACs which the Indians were meant to defend, it did NOT increase the radar detection range at all.

The F-15 in the India cope exercise did not have AESA radar but it also did not have the Aim-120 missile.

So here is the situation you have F-15's with Doppler radar and only equipped with Aim-9 missiles going against a superior number of Su-30 equipped with long range missiles and better radar., Have a good day.





West Point, Out.

Yes,thats the main reason why the F-15s didn't perform as well as expected, and since USAF usually train to the F-15s flying in pairs, launching 2 AMRAAMs and killing 2 targets before doing anything else. Apparently in Cope India they didn't get to use the AMRAAMs,which was a huge disadvantage. And oh, the Su-30 weren't Su-30MKIs, and they didn't really have many of them (less than 4 actually).

tell me, if russian fighters are superior why have american planes totally dominated them in every war since 1979, even highly trained countries like yugosllavia were decimated by air.

before then they had an advantage but today this has been proven to be not so, in actual wars, israelis and iranians even used them with extreme success in dominating russian planes.

Yes,but have they met any real Russian planes with real pilot training? Shooting down Iraqi MiG-29s are nothing, those are already rusting and the pilots don't know the eject button from the fire missles button. Only 1 Flanker has actually seen combat, an Ethiopian Su-27 which shot down a MiG-29, so the kill ratio of the flanker is 1-0

Originally posted by tomcat ha
The end of the current russian superiority over US planes has started.

Not really with the SU 37 in existence.

Originally posted by Tony238

Originally posted by tomcat ha
The end of the current russian superiority over US planes has started.

Not really with the SU 37 in existence.

The F-22 has a head start, since Russia hasn't ordered any Su-37's yet.

In the Raptor's support, heres a kill ratio chart of modern aircrafts against a Su-35 "Flanker".


Aircraft Odds vs. Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1:1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5:1
Dassault-Breguet Rafale C 1.0:1
Sukhoi Su-35 'Flanker' 1.0:1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8:1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4:1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3:1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3:1

www.eurofighter.starstreak.net...

CAn you tell me how one calculates those kills ratios??

I doubt a Su-35 has ever engaged ANY of those fighters ever
(except the flanker)

Still a 10.1:1 and a 4.5:1 kill ratios are quite earth shattering..
considerng again neither aircrafts have ever engaged each other..

Several OpEvals(operational evaluation) were conducted by Britain's DERA, the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency.
I gave a link, its at the bottom of the post.


[edit on 1-5-2005 by Onewingeddemon]

I aw your link then itself, but it said that the method they used to generate such values was a "true" sim program called JOUST..
Still how can one come up with such figures unless ALL relevant data on ALL aircraft is available..
Is the data on the Su-35 so transparent??Same with the F-22..

Its a simulator the Data for the F/A-22 would have been given since its the British, and they probably put in the data for the EF Typhoon. I guessing its not that hard to get the specs for the Su-35.

Also Su-37? That was an experimental aircraft its never going to see the assembly line as the Russians did not like it. And how do you know the Su-37 would have been better than the Raptor?

www.totalairdominance.50megs.com...

I can find that much about the Su-35 by just searching google.

Originally posted by Tony238
Not really with the SU 37 in existence.

Su-37 is just Su-35 with TVC.

Sukhois are excellent planes, not a match for JSF or F22 but its no push over either.

I read once that due to the overruns and delays to the Typhoon the RAF was considering evaluating the SU 27 (the thrust vectoring one?) and reequipping it with wesatern avionics and weapons.

this would make the Su the most powerful fighter in the world and cheaper than the Typhoon 2. But the US objected and weve got an aircraft wich is half the numbers half the power and twice the cost.

The R-77 has a range of 160 km to 170 km the AIM-120D has a range of over 180 km to 205 km. U.S. missiles outrange russian missiles.