TRUMP: Release Hostages or there will be HELL TO PAY

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I hope they won't release anyone because I want to see what exactly Trump will do.

Wow, that’s a pretty sick wish just for some self gratification. You sure you don’t want to rethink on that?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

So the forever Afghan war had no point;

But the forever Ukraine war is glorious?

"we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, We shall never surrender."

I guess so; I'd hate to wake up tomorrow and find that I'm speaking Russian.

a reply to: Dandandat3

The War in Ukraine is a land grabbing invasion, Afghanistan wasn't.

No, it isn't glorious.

It's a horrific tragedy.

So, what was the point of Afghanistan?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

The point of the Afghanistan war is the same as the Ukraine war, wich is the same point as any way. Geopolitical exercise of power to gain more power and influence over the other side(s).

You seem to want to pick wars that are "good" vs those that are "bad" based on your small personal perceptions. When in the end all wars are the same; a lot of people with very little power die so that those with most of the power can jockey for position.

But by all means; keep counting the dead in Ukraine and in Russia... just so Vladimir Putin knows you mean business and that you wont let him "get away with it".

a reply to: Dandandat3

Well, then Afghanistan did not achieve any of that.

Ukraine had no choice. They are being invaded.

"Small personal perceptions"?

Like, Putin is a murderous Dictator?

That's a fact.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It is also a fact that the terrorists in Afghanistan are murderous dictator-like theocrats. And as you keep pointing out, the Afghanistan war was not worth it and/or justified because it didn't accomplish anything.

You can see and acknowledge this truth when it comes to the Afghanistan war ... but seem to be myopic over the fact that your countries involvement in the Ukraine war will end up the same way .... frankly, it already has.

Your small perspective is that you feel as if it is up to you and your countrymen to make Putin pay ... that you have tunnel vision on that pursuit and are blind to the fact that a whole generation of Ukrainians have been wiped out so that you can make Putin pay. And you want to continue to go down the same forever war path as the Afghanistan war in the hopes of making Putin pay.

Putin will never have to pay for what he has done ... unless you are willing to go in and take him out.... and you're not.

Best the NATO counties can do is keep economic pressures up, make life more difficult for Putin. That is the only way he is going to pay.

Ukraine has lost the conflict, and Russia has won. Russia didn't give up like the west thought. His country didn't rise up against him, he can sit there and send young men to die just as long as or even longer than the Ukrainians. It's time to end the war and stop the meat grinder.

a reply to: Dandandat3

"It's time to end the war and stop the meat grinder."

Yes, it is.

That's up to Putin.

"Putin will never have to pay for what he has done ... unless you are willing to go in and take him out.... and you're not."

Whut?

No, of course not.

What a silly thing to say?

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I hope they won't release anyone because I want to see what exactly Trump will do.

Wow, that’s a pretty sick wish just for some self gratification. You sure you don’t want to rethink on that?

I thought it's obvious that I'm a Warhawk.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Dandandat3

Well, then Afghanistan did not achieve any of that.

Ukraine had no choice. They are being invaded.

"Small personal perceptions"?

Like, Putin is a murderous Dictator?

That's a fact.

The purpose of war is to win the war.

From what I can gather war is personal, some people have a good war and some people have a bad war, regardless of whose side achieves victory.

Perhaps one of our members who has the right to an opinion on war, ie. has actually fought in one, may offer one. I have the privilege of not having a personal opinion on war.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It's up to Putin to surrender and voluntarily lose a war? Do you understand how nave that argument is?

Maybe if we all go out on Christmas day and sing Who songs, Putin's heart will grow a few sizes, and he will stop killing Ukrainians and bring them all presents.

It's up to the west to end this war ... because at the end of the day, you can only change your own actions. So our countries have to decide... do we want more or less innocent people to die, it's as simple as that. You seem to be choosing for more innocent people to die for petty revenge.

Revenge you can never have; because you are unwilling to wage the type of war that would make Putin pay. Your just sending people from another county to die in the name of your "justice".

originally posted by: Dandandat3
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It's up to Putin to surrender and voluntarily lose a war? Do you understand how nave that argument is?

Maybe if we all go out on Christmas day and sing Who songs, Putin's heart will grow a few sizes, and he will stop killing Ukrainians and bring them all presents.

It's up to the west to end this war ... because at the end of the day, you can only change your own actions. So our countries have to decide... do we want more or less innocent people to die, it's as simple as that. You seem to be choosing for more innocent people to die for petty revenge.

Revenge you can never have; because you are unwilling to wage the type of war that would make Putin pay. Your just sending people from another county to die in the name of your "justice".

Completely wrong.

Putin can end the he started at any point.

Ukraine can end the war by accepting Putind occupation and give up their Independence.

The West's choice is to either continue to support Ukraine or not. It has no option to end the war.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War

In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.

The Ukraine people do want the war to end. They are powerless in the negotiations between the Ukraine leadership and the western leadership.

So you, assuming you live in the west, certainly do have a choice to make. Support the Ukrainians or continue to enable them to die.

originally posted by: Dandandat3
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War

In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.

The Ukraine people do want the war to end. They are powerless in the negotiations between the Ukraine leadership and the western leadership.

So you, assuming you live in the west, certainly do have a choice to make. Support the Ukrainians or continue to enable them to die.

Key word being negotiated.

Far cry from "Ukraine has lost and Russia has won"

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Ok ... sure, in that negotiation ... Putin will walk away with more land and haveing had not "paid" for his transgressions... if it makes it easier for you to swallow and support the end to the needless deaths of Ukrainians (and Russians)... than I can agree to call that a victory for Ukraine and a loss for Russia.

originally posted by: Dandandat3
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

Ok ... sure, in that negotiation ... Putin will walk away with more land and haveing had not "paid" for his transgressions... if it makes it easier for you to swallow and support the end to the needless deaths of Ukrainians (and Russians)... than I can agree to call that a victory for Ukraine and a loss for Russia.

Did you actually read the link you provided?

Only a minority of Ukrainians would actually support giving up territory for peace.

And what exactly is Russia going to win? A small amount of extra territory, not exactly something Russia was short of. He has lost thousands of young Russians, trashed his economy, increased the size of NATO and shown his military to be woefully ineffective. Some victory.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

I already agreed; Ukraine has won the war and Putin is been devastated. Time for the west to help end it.

originally posted by: Dandandat3
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

I already agreed; Ukraine has won the war and Putin is been devastated. Time for the west to help end it.

Can you quote where I said that? It might take you a while as I didn't.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to argue. That Russia hasn't won?

originally posted by: Dandandat3
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to argue. That Russia hasn't won?

Well it clearly hasn't.

It best case scenarios are currently looking as small gain in land at the cost of thousands of russian lives, billions in equipment and economic & poltical isolation for years, possibly decades.

However Ukraine clearly hasn't won either as this war has wrecked their country and will take years to rebuild.

It's not a strategy game with a winner and loser. Its a pointless loss of life and destruction caused by Putin.