According to Wiki, HAMAS is the same as "Palestinians"

a reply to: FlyersFan

Please... This kind of propaganda is childish.
Are you still trying to justify the killings and what is happening in Gaza. They are not justifiable and that's why Israel has lost not only the information war but all support from most countries. Is not ok to kill civilians and destroy entire areas. That's for all sides not just the Israelis. Anywhere in the world.

a reply to: network dude

Do we really need wiki to tell us that hamas is palestinians?

An old joke from the war was how do you tell the difference between a Muslim terrorist and a peaceful civilian?

A Muslim terrorist is shooting at you. The peaceful civilian is reloading.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mysterioustranger

it's a shame none of them say anything about it. And it's a shame they seem to be letting the reporting make it look like they all totally support HAMAS, even to the point of including HAMAS deaths with the civilian deaths to pad the numbers, ......unless it's all true, and your example is an outlier.

Palestine is made up of West Bank and Gaza - overall Palestinian Authority led by Fatah are in charge; Hamas and Fatah have been at war for decades.

Hamas only just beat Fatah in the elections in 2008 and quickly banned elections and arrest/kil any Gazans protesting them - Bibi forced IDF forces to stop intercepting Qatari and Turkish money sent to the Hamas terrorist group as part of a divide and rule policy to stop PA/Fatah achieving a two-state solution; though anti-semtic conspiracy types are trying to repaint this as Mossad inventing Hamas.

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Times of Israel - For years Netanyahu has backed Hamas...

Hamas don't include Hamas fighters/terrorists in their figure but multiple independent monitors and Israeli intelligence put the civiilian figure as 62 - 68% civillian casualties - Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world and life expectancy in so low half the population are under 18 so not suprising civilian casualty rate is so high and can't be taken as evidence of genocide.

Looks like Wikipedia got it right for once.

a reply to: bastion

Careful with the rhetoric. You will be branded a Hamas supporter and antisemitic. You have the guts to criticise Netanyahou and the Israeli State?

It's precisely what I have said numerous times. Around 66% of all people killed in Gaza are non combatants. And the source is the IDF

In December, Israel's military said it estimated 66% of those killed to be civilians. Even the conservative figure of 61 percent is higher than the average civilian death rate in all world conflicts "from the Second World War to the 1990s."

en.wikipedia.org...

For all we know it could be higher than this.

If you take into account that Netanyahou said 14,000 combatants have died (not the best source of information), but let's say we use this figure then that gives 28,000 dead civilians.

originally posted by: WeMustCare
Palestinians elected Hamas to be their leaders in Gaza.

Following up...

RAMALLAH, West Bank, Jan. 26 -- The radical Islamic movement Hamas won a large majority in the new Palestinian parliament, according to official election results announced Thursday, trouncing the governing Fatah party in a contest that could dramatically reshape the Palestinians' relations with Israel and the rest of the world.

source: www.washingtonpost.com... -8607-51c7dd3781f4/

What media are you watching that is making it seem like all Palestinians support Hamas? Fox news? OAN? I'm confused because I see and read a lot of news and have not once encountered a Palestinian say a positive thing about Hamas. So me thinks it's propaganda that a lot of you people seem to be swallowing without thinking too much. I guess vaccines are bad only if the smart people say?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mysterioustranger

it's a shame none of them say anything about it. And it's a shame they seem to be letting the reporting make it look like they all totally support HAMAS, even to the point of including HAMAS deaths with the civilian deaths to pad the numbers, ......unless it's all true, and your example is an outlier.

originally posted by: Anyrven
Please... This kind of propaganda is childish.

The truth isn't propaganda. Nor is the truth childish. But you being banned from here dozens and dozens of times and you keep coming back is. Get a life.

The truth once more ...

Things You Find in "Civilian" Gaza Homes

Major Roy Yanovsky, head of the Channel 13 News investigative desk, who is on reserve duty with the 7007th Reserve Battalion in Gaza, posted pictures of what he and other soldiers found in Gaza houses.

“Things you find in Gaza homes:” Yanovsky wrote, starting a thread and noting that the most common items were RPG missiles and Kalashnikov rifles. “The supply is highly impressive.” The second common item is explosive charges. “It’s hard to find a street without a house that has several ready-to-use, including vests, uniforms, and pretty impressive combat equipment,” he added. Yanovsky also found Russian 122 mm Grad missiles in Gaza homes, as well as a calendar with a photo of kidnapped IDF soldier Gilad Shalit and a book about the bloody Second Intifada.

Yanovsky also found “A coloring book for children that begins with a description of the Nakba, a ‘Map of Palestine’ with the monitored borders and no mention of Israel.” This “is found in almost every home,” he stressed. Yanovsky ended the thread with what he claims is “the most important finding – a transistor radio that picks up Reshet Bet everywhere and in every dungeon. The soldiers huddle around it in silence as they have the opportunity to catch up on hourly local news. This makes it possible to maintain sanity and connection to the outside world.

The End OF The Jews - Childrens Book Taught to Gazan Children
Childrens book found in Gaza.
Teaching Gazan children to slaughter the Jews.
A few screen shots of childrens TV shows is shown too.
It's all about the slaughter of Jews

a reply to: FlyersFan

There are examples of Israeli settlers and their children going and getting into armed conflicts with Palestinians. I don’t think it would be fair to say every Israeli shares that same sentiment.

It also wouldn’t be fair to say that all Jews across the world are in agreement with the settlers. But we see that same argument played out with Muslims. Muslims = Palestinians, Palestinians = Hamas. Muslims = terrorists.

And that’s completely fine, but even being critical of Israel as a government is somehow anti semetic.

It’s these tropes and logical fallacies that make the conflict impossible to address.

originally posted by: WeMustCare
Palestinians elected Hamas to be their leaders in Gaza.

I wonder if it's the same way Americans elected Biden to be our President.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Nobody believes that 100% of anybody is completely for or against any particular thing.

The reality is that 71% of gazans, call them whatever you like, think that the massacre on October 7th was a good thing.
The 29% have to deal with the consequences of the rest. They need to get out of the way if the 71% will let them. Or start fighting back.
Most places around the world you couldn’t find 71% of the people agreeing on anything.
It’s truly telling what an evil bunch of people they are.
Proud martyrs.

a reply to: Vermilion

71% of adults*

Which is still a staggering figure given the destruction that’s resulted from Hamas’s disgusting attack. Hamas hit a hornets nest and the people are paying for it.

But I was merely pointing out the double standard. People are allowed to cherry pick and paint with a broad brush for one side.


I’ve pointed out many times that I’m all for supporting the only democratic nation in that region… But I fail to see how approaching those the same way we always have magically finds a solution this time.

How many times has there been conflict there? What is being done this time that will stop the conflict? How is saying all Palestinians are Hamas going to stop this?

I don’t think it does. If the world says that every Palestinian is hamas, including the kids, I think they lean into it. What do they have to lose? Then this happens again in 10-20 years as if always has.

originally posted by: mechtech87
What media are you watching that is making it seem like all Palestinians support Hamas? Fox news? OAN? I'm confused because I see and read a lot of news and have not once encountered a Palestinian say a positive thing about Hamas. So me thinks it's propaganda that a lot of you people seem to be swallowing without thinking too much. I guess vaccines are bad only if the smart people say?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mysterioustranger

it's a shame none of them say anything about it. And it's a shame they seem to be letting the reporting make it look like they all totally support HAMAS, even to the point of including HAMAS deaths with the civilian deaths to pad the numbers, ......unless it's all true, and your example is an outlier.

please go back and read my post, then read it again. Relax the knee, then respond. This isn't that.

Hay that’s what I’ve been saying this whole entire time!

a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: Anyrven
a reply to: FlyersFan

Please... This kind of propaganda is childish.
Are you still trying to justify the killings and what is happening in Gaza. They are not justifiable and that's why Israel has lost not only the information war but all support from most countries. Is not ok to kill civilians and destroy entire areas. That's for all sides not just the Israelis. Anywhere in the world.

Hamasastinians are not civilians. They openly apoourt and shield these animals....they are one and the same.

originally posted by: mechtech87
What media are you watching that is making it seem like all Palestinians support Hamas? Fox news? OAN? I'm confused because I see and read a lot of news and have not once encountered a Palestinian say a positive thing about Hamas. So me thinks it's propaganda that a lot of you people seem to be swallowing without thinking too much. I guess vaccines are bad only if the smart people say?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mysterioustranger

it's a shame none of them say anything about it. And it's a shame they seem to be letting the reporting make it look like they all totally support HAMAS, even to the point of including HAMAS deaths with the civilian deaths to pad the numbers, ......unless it's all true, and your example is an outlier.

What news are you watching? Did you not see Hamasastinians dancing in the street and abusing hostages after Oct 7th? Did you not know that some of the hostages were given to "Palestinian" families for imprisonment? Did you not know that at least one of the hostages who managed to escape Hamas was quickly caught by the Palestinian "civilians" and turned right back over to Hamas? We need to stay the hell out of other peoples wars and let them resolve it by any means necessary. This will be endless if Hamas isn't eradicated, if they stopped hiding behind " civilians " schools...hospitals..the death toll would be lower...it's already extremely low considering the population density, or if Hamas gave back the remains of whatever hostages they have as well as any hostages that could be alive...doubtful..but that would help. Then they surrender and face the firing squad and meet their God in hell.

a reply to: Anyrven

I don't think I've been accused of anti-semitism or being a Hamas supporter - I always try to make a distinction between Netanyahu and Israelis as he's not popular in Israel and like Palestine there's a huge distinction between government and civillians.

I've cited the figure before a few times including when Israeli intel said the figures are roughly correct but it has to be taken in context as Gaza is as densely populated as London or New Yorkl and half the population are kids so unfortunately there's bound to be a high number of dead women and children.

Only around 5 - 10% of Gazans alive today voted for Hamas and 48% are kids so claims all Gazans are Hamas are groundless. Any Gazan speaking against Hamas or showing support for Fatah gets tortured and killed so they can't overthrow or oust them - they barely have enough to eat to survive and have food and water cut off if they speak ill of Hamas terrorists.

Israel have been giving warnings to civillians to evacuate buildings before bombing them and had the quickest and most transparent response to the killings or aid workers I've seen from any military so the claims of genocide are groundless.

If they took over Gaza and expelled Palestinians then it would be ethnic cleansing and illegal land capture under laws or war but so far it's unclear what the plan is apart from a buffer zone in northern Gaza. I think buffer zones and DMZ don't count as cleansing or illegal land capture but not 100% sure on that.

"There's about another 10,000 plus bodies who still have to be fully identified, and so then the details of those - which of those are children, which of those are women - that will be re-established once the full identification process is complete," Haq told reporters in New York.

Haq said those figures were for identified bodies - 7,797 children, 4,959 women, 1,924 elderly, and 10,006 men - adding: "The Ministry of Health says that the documentation process of fully identifying details of the casualties is ongoing."

www.reuters.com...

10,006 men, and 14698 other (women, children, and ederly)

That looks vastly different when you factor in that 10,006 men were likely the HAMAS war fighters that seem to always not exist in the numbers. But it's clear genocide right?