Evidence of a Roman backed(?) clerk meddling with Henry VIII's rule? How far back does it go?

(I'm looking at protoplasmictraveller's 'all roads lead to Rome' and seeing if there is anything beyond it)

Henry VIII and the kingsmen, This program was on prime.

www.youtube.com...

In the final episode, final minutes, it shows in some archive vaults in England, a piece, with controversy, a possible forged signature of Henry VIII in his will. The conspiracy involves "William Thomas", or William Clerk, as said in the program. William Thomas, the clerk's signature was also on there, along with other witnesses.

"William Clerk was the clerk to the Privy Chamber of Henry VIII of England. He was a clerk to the Privy Seal from 1542 to 1548 and had permission to use the dry stamp bearing the King's signature from September 1545.[1]"

- en.wikipedia.org...(administrator)

The program shows how Henry VIII was messed about by his council, to the point of him growing disillusioned, almost delirious, ill, and seemingly letting his clerk dry stamp all these documents on his behalf. He would show henry VIII every month, but whether the very broken like, jaded Henry VIII gave much care to read through it all... since it would seem the men around him, ate at him constantly, probably pulling wool over his eyes, either way, his will, may have been forged, allowing control over his next to be king, his 9 year old boy, when Henry VIII died.

Not much on william clerk:

biography.wales...

"and who lived for some five years in Italy (Bologna, Padua, etc.), where he wrote a defence of king Henry VIII" He was an Italian scholar...

" As Adair points out, William Thomas was the first 'Englishman' to show in his writings some knowledge and appreciation of Machiavelliand his political philosophy"

Bit of background on this Machiavelli:

"For many years he served as a senior official in the Florentine Republic with responsibilities in diplomatic and military affairs...

Machiavelli was appointed to an office of the second chancery, a medieval writing office that put Machiavelli in charge of the production of official Florentine government documents...

In the first decade of the sixteenth century, he carried out several diplomatic missions, most notably to the papacy in Rome....

Florence sent him to Pistoia to pacify the leaders of two opposing factions which had broken into riots in 1501 and 1502;...

Other excursions (trips) to the court of Louis XII and the Spanish court influenced his writings such as The Prince...."

and an eye opening piece, on Machiavelli :

"From 1502 to 1503, he witnessed the brutal reality of the state-building methods of Cesare Borgia (1475–1507) and his father, Pope Alexander VI, who were then engaged in the process of trying to bring a large part of central Italy under their possession."

- en.wikipedia.org...


The other hmmmm piece on William Thomas:

"On the accession of Mary, Thomas lost all his preferments, including his clerkship. He took an active part in Wyatt's conspiracy, 1553-4, was arrested, accused of conspiring the death of Mary, and executed (18 May 1554)."

- biography.wales...

Wyatt's conspiracy then, lets go further, going by Wikipedia article on:

en.wikipedia.org...

With Wyatt's rebellion it was also said, this piece:

" It was given its name by the attorney at Wyatt's arraignment, who stated for the record that "this shall be ever called Wyat's Rebellion""

Also more from this wiki article:

"David Loades states that “the main reasons which lay behind the rising were secular and political",[2] but on the other hand Malcolm Thorp notes that “With but few exceptions, the leading conspirators were Protestants, and religious concerns were an important part of their decision to oppose Mary”."

and this (also from the same wiki article of Wyatt's rebellion)

"William Thomas
Thomas was an avowed Protestant who was known as a “hot gospeller”[28]and is viewed by some historians as the original leader of the rebellion.[29]"

It's possible William Thomas was quickly made to be executed as he knew too much and was found out. The rebellion's name forced to bear the name of Sir Thomas Wyatt...

So we got a possible forgery on Henry VIII's will... William Thomas dry stamping documents on behalf of the disenchanted Henry VIII, his love for Italy, him going to Italy for 5 years, and "William Thomas was the first 'Englishman' to show in his writings some knowledge and appreciation of Machiavelli and his political philosophy", Machiavelli, who was tasked to pacify leaders... very much like William Thomas seemed up to, he too carried out diplomatic missions, witnessed brutal state building methods for the pope.

I'm not going to declare William Thomas was part of the Roman Empire, but it looks possible, he may of been instructed by the Romans.

Watching the documentary, with the notion of the Roman Empire, you get a real idea that these men getting under Henry VIII's skin was playing a sick part, a kind of sick scenario Machiavelli, witnessed "From 1502 to 1503, he witnessed the brutal reality of the state-building methods of Cesare Borgia (1475–1507) and his father, Pope Alexander VI, who were then engaged in the process of trying to bring a large part of central Italy under their possession."

Henry VIII, though he cut people's heads off out of rage, he also could of been a chronic victim of his council men for 55 years.

It's disturbing, but history as none of us are alien to the concept, is possibly rewritten, I think this could be a great opportunity to see just that with 'Wyatt's rebellion'. I think the Roman empire has been playing the hidden forgettable dirt bag advisors for a long time.

It shocked me to know the Roman empire "ended" in as late as 1806 also. Probably with a face lift...

"The Holy Roman Empire finally began its true terminal decline during and after its involvement in the French Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Wars."

en.wikipedia.org...

True terminal decline in the French revolutionary wars... Quoting ProtoplasmicTraveler (next post):

"It's amazing my friend but it literally is right in our face and all around us.

Someone suggested on here to actually read the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolutionary War stating that it didn't really look like we won the Revolutionary War the way the Treaty actually is laid out and reads.

I got bored one night and read it and was pretty amazed and started searching out the meaning of various titles involved with the players.

One title led to another, to another, to another treaty, to another treaty, to another treaty, eventually it led me to the Council of Eight and that Rome rules us in such a conclusive way I was literally in shock. I actually couldn't even sleep for two days as I tried to just absorb the magnitude of it all and internalize it.

Treaties are Contracts. Legally binding Contracts between entities. It takes some time to read them, to research the lanquage, the titles and the meanings but the bottom line is it's all in the Contracts and a Contract is a Contract!

It truly gives new meaing, though I imagine the real meaning of "The Devils in the details".

In my humble opinion not only does Rome secretly rule us but that we all are in fact slaves in the Roman Empire, economic free range slaves.

All Roads lead to Rome in my humble opinion."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think it goes beyond Rome, further back, and then eventually settles with, soul wanters.

I feel that the thugs behind Rome, Rome could of been possibly the first large scale hijack for another group or it started with Rome. For me I think when humans overcame nature with farming, starting around this place: en.wikipedia.org... a place going back to around 13,000 and 7,800 BC , with

"The site is significant because the inhabitants of Abu Hureyra started out as hunter-gatherers but gradually moved to farming, making them the earliest known farmers in the world." Now it is : "Abu Hureyra is a tell, or ancient settlement mound, in modern-day Raqqa Governorate in northern Syria. "

A tell is

"In archaeology a tell or tel (borrowed into English from Arabic: تَلّ, tall, 'mound' or 'small hill')[1] is an artificial topographical feature, a mound consisting of the accumulated and stratified debris of a succession of consecutive settlements at the same site, the refuse of generations of people who built and inhabited them and natural sediment.[2][3][4][5]"

I think when food became plenty from successful abundant crop farming, people came less face to face with the brutality of the wild, and predators. People became more docile, over time, I think people , or a group, took advantage of this, doing dirty tactics like, using lies and all sorts. The area of Tell_Abu_Hureyra, successful in farming


Also:

en.wikipedia.org... ,the fertile crescent which encompasses Tell_Abu_Hureyra, and what that means :

"As crucial as rivers and marshlands were to the rise of civilization in the Fertile Crescent, they were not the only factor. The area is geographically important as the "bridge" between North Africa and Eurasia, which has allowed it to retain a greater amount of biodiversity than either Europe or North Africa, where climate changes during the Ice Age led to repeated extinction events when ecosystems became squeezed against the waters of the Mediterranean Sea. The Saharan pump theory posits that this Middle Eastern land bridge was extremely important to the modern distribution of Old World flora and fauna, including the spread of humanity.[citation needed]

The area has borne the brunt of the tectonic divergence between the African and Arabian plates and the converging Arabian and Eurasian plates, which has made the region a very diverse zone of high snow-covered mountains.[citation needed]

The Fertile Crescent had many diverse climates, and major climatic changes encouraged the evolution of many "r" type annual plants, which produce more edible seeds than "K" type perennial plants. The region's dramatic variety in elevation gave rise to many species of edible plants for early experiments in cultivation. Most importantly, the Fertile Crescent was home to the eight Neolithic founder crops important in early agriculture (i.e., wild progenitors to emmer wheat, einkorn, barley, flax, chick pea, pea, lentil, bitter vetch), and four of the five most important species of domesticated animals—cows, goats, sheep, and pigs; the fifth species, the horse, lived nearby.[13] The Fertile Crescent flora comprises a high percentage of plants that can self-pollinate, but may also be cross-pollinated.[13] These plants, called "selfers", were one of the geographical advantages of the area because they did not depend on other plants for reproduction.[13]"

So... it's possible, with all this food, docile people, especially in this area... people or groups grew tempted to manipulate these docile tribes. Which reminds me of the ten lost tribes, hmm, were they made lost when their use grew expired and a possible loss of power by them if they were not made abandoned? Anyway. With lots of food on standby, and possibly a group of people grown by years of lies and false politics, they could go to Italy, where things were not as fertile, bribe them with food, do dirty politics assume power, etc. The first Roman coins were around 4th century BC. So with people and food stocks in place, lots of money... and then money is the new leverage, the third one, money, people, food. It's possible Rome is now used to amass power and abuse the rest of the world.

I think fear for the human life started, in Africa, with the wild, but I think, it goes further back yet still. I think Soul Wanters, set this whole place up. And having something be the evil mask is always the task for them. I think our souls need to get out of here, and get back to themselves and beyond the zone of the soul wanters fouled amalgamation.

But I won't want to declare anything, I think it is safer for people's own way of things. Thought I'd share my findings, possible findings... and feelings.

PS. need a warning on how long the subject characters for the title needs to be in real time, rather using other websites to count it, and be warned when pressing post. I also don't understand why the quote button doesn't wrap highlighted text, same with bold, I find this all painful when other forums do all this, i don't understand why I should type it out in those boxes.

Many scholars believe things have always been rigged and fixed based on corruption, lies, and cheating. All the way back to when life began to think and talk, and write and read. Like maybe seeking the answer to which came first: "reading" or "writing"? Without the other, neither is possible, right? 💲

originally posted by: xuenchen
Many scholars believe things have always been rigged and fixed based on corruption, lies, and cheating. All the way back to when life began to think and talk, and write and read. Like maybe seeking the answer to which came first: "reading" or "writing"? Without the other, neither is possible, right? 💲

It's new to me actually, to see scholars see a conspiracy on historical events. It's nice to know, education isn't all corrupt.

a reply to: JonnyC555

Great post

I think fear for the human life started

I think it started again.

a reply to: xuenchen

Both skills are interconnected and reinforce each other.

Reading enhances writing by providing exposure to different writing styles, vocabulary, and ideas.

While writing reinforces reading by requiring comprehension and analysis.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: xuenchen

Both skills are interconnected and reinforce each other.

Reading enhances writing by providing exposure to different writing styles, vocabulary, and ideas.

While writing reinforces reading by requiring comprehension and analysis.

But for the first "writing" to happen, somebody had to be able to "Read". So the "writing" had to be necessary to be able to "Read". So which came first before the other?? 💥

a reply to: xuenchen

It's an interesting topic to ponder.

But I don't think any definitive answers are apt to be forthcoming.

The evolution of human communication likely involved a gradual and interconnected process.

With early forms of communication most likely being primarily oral by nature.

If that's the case it would seem listening and speaking would have preceded reading and writing.

Chicken and egg type scenario.

I think my notion of the old Syrian town, 11,000 BC etc. and people from there coming to italy... as some clan... Gets freaky. Moses was the leader of the lost israeli tribes...

First of, the bible. May have been telling the founders of this organised clan this whole time. Like, if it is public and written, then... 'we told you so'. Like current law, small print... this is why it is freaky, the bible is possibly old law, and it may still be integrated by weird ways. Divine rights of kings came to mind. It was a Christian thing but i see this too:

"""Biblical background
edit
The Christian notion of a divine right of kings is traced to a story found in 1 Samuel, where the prophet Samuel anoints Saul and then David[8] as Messiah ("anointed one")—king over Israel. In the Jewish traditions, the lack of a divine leadership represented by an anointed king, beginning shortly after the death of Joshua, left the people of Israel vulnerable, and the promise of the "promised land" was not fully fulfilled until a king was anointed by a prophet on behalf of God."""" - divine king rights, wikipedia

"""Joshua, functioned as Moses assistant""""... en.m.wikipedia.org...

Remember my post of William the clerk working like his admired Roman scout of the time. Get this...

""""The Hebrew Bible identifies Joshua as one of the twelve spies of Israel sent by Moses to explore the land of Canaan.""""

- (Same joshua wiki link)

Wtf... spies...

Region of canaan :

ancientneareast.tripod.com...

Canaan.... that's what i was thinking for the last week... they start in a place where farming was going successful and they go to nearby tribes to capitalise before they cotton on to such success...

Look at this ....

""""""Moses asked for an assessment of the geographic features of the land, the strength and numbers of the population, the agricultural potential and actual performance of the landactual performance of the land, civic organization (whether their cities were like camps or strongholds), and forestry conditions. He also asked them to be positive in their outlook and to return with samples of local produce.""""

- en.m.wikipedia.org... (The Twelve Spies wiki article!)

Now... this en.m.wikipedia.org... look at that picture, Moses looks a bully, like Thor, with his , as it states for his painting..."Moses with the Tablets of the Law".

I will next go up the family tree, Moses's father, in this wiki link is the family tree. en.m.wikipedia.org... , i will look tommorowif there is more, so far... odd...

I didn't include that theory of a successful farming tribe near israel, and some of its people out racing to capitalise on other tribes before they end up equally successful. Instead, i went from israel people (possibly the lost tribes) with successful farming going out and leveraging the less fertile Italy, to then further leverage, with money, armies etc.

It makes me sick to think my childhood school plays speaking sweetly of possibly one of the first of a current day powerfully rich gang, that being Moses... Roman empire end??? In 1806..... well look at my end of 1st and start of 2nd post in this thread... it doesn't seem it did end, looks like the current law reeks of latin and things. I can't help but think, the Bible is small print... of the clan from the canaan area, the lost tribes of israel would be the first unfortunate hooked in people. Sad really. There seems to be this sick, we said so, in public writing thing with the current powers... i think the bible started that. Makes me sick thinking about it.

It doesn't distract me from the soul wanters, human foul play aside, i feel they wanted this crap to happen as a mean way to fall for them via, devaluing by capitalists, false holy dubious light in scripture etc...

There we are, possible naughty Moses.

a reply to: JonnyC555

Adding to this, as Moses and gang was the first capitalists, well, big ones, they didn't want others to be like them and thus used religion and Monarchs, using war, fighting over flags etc... to keep us down (something i bet was first done against neighbouring tribes in canaan)... by 1806... the Moses gang, are very very very rich, so can now rule by money alone, and introduce constitutions for each countries, keeping that flag patriot crap, bring in parliament, democracy and.. capitalist tastes for all, blind them to the moses gang, make them like the moses gang...they then put in the capitalist system... , where they rule with....................... money................... because they're super super super rich now anyway................ money in Rome started around the 4th century BC... with a kick start in mass farming in the fertile crescent of canaan they first had food leverage, then with that use it against Rome, use Rome to rule a lot of the world... silk road... with swords... yeah.... best head start... so by 1806... very very very rich, maybe another two three very's. Blood money, damn. Yes.

Now everyone gets a taste of that ancient capitalist vibe, you too can be like Moses... not really. It's a very sad story. With many lifes tricked and killed.

The horrors used to be more blind people with religion, now its more people's "value" being judged. Very very, very sad stuff. Wars, still go on... they're still trying to exploit the tribe days... sickos.

Money is the new bullying 'Monarch', and the most money is in the hands of.... for me, the Moses gang.

You know what is also sick, cute school sing song plays about Moses that kids sung about like i did as a kid. It makes it hard to think the guy had capitalist at all costs intentions. I'm not declaring Moses is bad, but knowing the Roman empire writings... the historical timeline... the historical evidence, it all kind of lines up with the bible, for me, disturbing.

There was however mesopotamia kingdoms around the days of abraham... so i need to do more research.

For what it’s worth, plots and conspiracies are as old as human society. I don’t think anyone disputes this.

However, the idea that some (or all) of these plots and conspiracies are all linked together is beyond absurd.

a reply to: xuenchen

But for the first "writing" to happen, somebody had to be able to "Read". So the "writing" had to be necessary to be able to "Read". So which came first before the other??

They both came together, at exactly the same moment.

The first reader was the first writer, reading as he wrote. He probably worked in a temple or storehouse and invented these marks to use for himself, inscribing them on tally sticks recording different types of goods held in the store or different animals that had been sacrificed to a god, so as to distinguish the tallies from one another. Humans learnt to count long before we learnt to write, and even Neanderthals used tally sticks, though not ones with 'writing' on them.

The 'letters' would have been little simplified drawings of whatever the tally was of – archaeologists tell us that the first writing was probably pictographic or hieroglyphic.

The next readers (and writers) were probably his co-workers or colleagues. Others then saw the usefulness of the system, and it spread from there.

This article about the oldest form of writing suggests that my guess is correct.

Possible? Of course! Useful? Not so much; an example of the evolution of the expression of ideas and concepts.

a reply to: xuenchen

I am lead to believe the bible is the basis of law.

thelawdictionary.org...

In English and American law. An order or direction, emanating from authority, to an officer or body of officers, commanding him or them to do some act within the scope of their powers.

Precept is not to be confined to civil proceedings, and is not of a more restricted meaning than “process.” It includes warrants and processes in criminal as well as civil proceedings. Adams v. Vose, 1 Gray (Mass.) 51, 58. “Precept” means a commandment in writing, sent out by a justice of the peace or PRECEPT 929.

Was the bible ever sent out by a justice of the peace?

a reply to: JonnyC555

a reply to: Dalamax

The Bible has influenced legal systems and moral codes.

But modern legal systems are not solely directly based on it alone.

In our early human societies, informal rules and customs governed behavior within groups.

Which stretches all the way back to the likes of the times of ancient Babylon.

en.wikipedia.org...

I like the section ‘denial of mastership’ in the chapter on slavery 👍

Cheers Andrew. Have a Fosters, or a Darwin stubby, on me.

a reply to: andy06shake

a reply to: Dalamax

Ile pass the now Dalamax.

I've got the hangover from hell this morning.

"Wheat has corrupted humanity
The grain gave birth to the tyrannical state" :

unherd.com...

The author talks of wheat, it has words of making us docile, possible effecting our biology, he says meat is better, but, I don't think it's a case of that. Before agriculture, man was bolstering his soul in preparation against evil, eating the odd berry or whatever. The article seems to generally talk of wheat like a state's sick trick on people. I reckon the first sickos, were those who wanted to make others sick, as to control them. They got people ingrained... (probably where the word comes from, wouldn't shock me) on wheat, to make people docile, weak, constantly watching their crops, and then pounce on these weak people with notions of Gods whilst they were like couch potatoes.

I don't want to think a bunch of sickos started the whole control thing and persist to this day, via a lineage. I rather not think such disgraceful people were so successful. But it's possible. Like in my other posts, I don't think the true issue for us is with other humans trying to look like the devil, but in something else. Before we had possible whack jobs putting us to farming and religion, we would prepare ourselves against evils more beyond Earth. I call them soul wanters. And these soul wanters, wanted a distraction, when predators of the wild would grew less a distraction, and used meddling humans, who created subtle carnage from a distance, and continued it. They wanted these meddlers to appear as the men behind the curtains, like the soul wanters, an intention is felt, but its appearance not exactly apparent with the eyes. Then to make matters worse, have these meddlers invent religion, to really muddy the waters.

Let's not forget Rome, handing out bread as a basic, for free, sounds great, but a very subtle thing I think had been stomped on for that to look that way. Money doesn't necessarily bring happiness either. Living longer isn't necessarily better. There's millions of elderly who are in old people's homes, staring out of windows and trapped within walls. I remember as a kid, my first memories, the shadow over school, then the teachers, headteachers whose hobby was control, like a bored kid playing chess. I found the shadow to be the only, true evil, the soul wanters, in which people out of boredom would let it possess them and make you think the wickedness is from them. I used to look in their eyes and think, you silly bored guy, leave me alone, wake up. Then I turn around to see, a large attack surface area for this shadow, a society filled with millions of people, far and wide.

So whilst ancient meddlers whose lineage is potentially still intact or whether they passed down the idea to a new lineage of meddlers, well, they're a pain, but I don't think the main issue. They just serve as a distraction to any who want to know why they suffer. And so, the amalgamation by the soul wanters, would have it so the meddlers would strive to appease people at the same time, to retain their control.

But where you have wheat, historically, you have state control or its like.

The intriguing question is: if wheat-growing altered our corporeal structure, did it alter our brain? Did the systematic rituals and requirements of planting and harvesting wheat change our brains to make us more docile? Organised? Cooperative? Disconnected from nature? Did it turn us away from animism to praise of Ceres, goddess of grain crops, and then to an abstract, monolithic God of whom we ask our daily bread.

But if meat tandems with liberty, then wheat, historically, comes chained to tyranny.

The blight that is wheat took root 10,000 years ago, when Triticum aestivum, or bread wheat, was domesticated from wild grasses in the “Fertile Crescent” of the Middle East. Initially, the local Neolithics cultivated wheat alongside traditional hunter-gathering and incipient pastoralism (livestock farming). But wheat is a slave-master, demanding in its specific and daily needs, not least the endless — or so it seems to us who have ever grown the stuff — weeding. Wheat locked us into a seasonal cycle of planting, weeding and harvesting from which we have been unable to escape ever since. It also made us more sedentary, both in terms of chaining us to static settlements, and becoming less active. Guarding a wheat field from wild boar requires less energy than hunting wild boar; the lineal ancestor of the couch potato was the campfire bun.

Crop-watching may demand little energy, but it is demanding of time. With fewer hours to hunt and to forage, we settled for a restricted diet. At Abu Hereyra in Syria,