Second strike on YT

a reply to: BrotherKinsMan

Did you build and program the hard and software that allows you to post on ats?

No one will stop you from preaching crap at the corner of the sidewalks... The moment you rely on private infrastructure to get your message heard they kind of have the right to deny you their service...

I get it we take it for granted to be able to make our opinion known to anyone who wants to listen, but it's quite an incredible gift we handled carelessly and caused alot of the turmoil we see today...
Because in the beginning was the word, like with every narrative they got that right. the truth behind this statement might even reach deeper than we can currently fathom. Thanks to the internet that gave anyone the possibility to get his narrative out instantly, there are now many semi congruent narratives floating around clashing and causing societal turmoil.
whereas before and up until the transition from printed to digital, getting a diffrent narrative out than the one sanctioned by state and church was incredibly difficult and met with alot of hostility.

I mean they messed it up by giving the internet to the people and we did nothing with it... Even with the tools to do something against being devided and ruled, we can't help ourselves...

Ever since people started replacing the words "killed, suicide" and "dead", with the made up word, "unalived",
and I noticed people were saying "pew pew" instead of gun, I knew we had unabashedly entered Orwell's world.

The first time I encountered this nonsense, I knew why. It was with the true-crime story-teller "Bailey Sarian".
I told the video creator that I thought she should rail against the practice out of principle, but it humiliated her and the other commenters turned on me fairly quickly.

There's a big difference between censoring words that were created and meant to offend, like the 4 letter words,
and censoring basic foundational concepts such as death and dying.

It will come back to bite (or should I say "move its jaw towards") humanity eventually, and probably in a big way.
Utterly stupid, but then to say so is ableist, isn't it?
Oh well.
Make your choices, humanity.
It isn't my world anymore. I try to stay out of it, and would move to Mars if I could.

a reply to: Terpene


Sorry, double post. I had a 522 error from the server when I was making good arguments for net nuetrality.
Kinda makes me wonder...

I learned many years ago, mainly from posting here on ATS...

Never, Ever, Ever, EVER hit SEND, POST, or REPLY anywhere until we have read our own words AT LEAST ONCE.

Employ the three "C"s to our own words to avoid being the fourth.

Critical
Credible
Conscience
or else it's...Cretin: A Stupid Person.

And you cannot edit an email or a Youtube comment once it's gone. Thank heavens for the ATS Edit button and our eh?

Also, NEVER post DRUNK unless you don't respect yourself and want others to know.

Life is not a race, it's a path that can only be travelled once each step. Tread Wisely and don't step on the shiny things along the way.

So if/when you do get banned, will that also stop all the google collection that goes on in the background around you? Or just limit your access to it?

Once a month I get an email from google showing me everywhere my phone has been in the last month. I did not ask for it. I don't see much point in digging through all my setting trying to turn it off. All it will stop is my access to this information, as for what google and the state will do with this data?

Does google still keep individual profiles on everything it can get from its banned members? I would not be surprised if it does but don't really know. For anyone trying to get out of this surveillance state, getting banned looks like a good start and will limit some of the collection that goes on.

a reply to: nerbot

Drunk post make for the most entertaining threads, and i thought your supposed to jump on the shiny things, rip them out and claim them yours, then hide them in a safe until their splendor is gone...

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: FlyersFan

It's a you tube, apparently somone got banned across all google platforms for creating hateful content on the YT. I guess we're supposed to cheer him up because you know how he stuck it to the man...

Do you mean me as 'someone'? Also I am female. Always have been.
You also didn't read my post.
I see a pattern here. It's certain people who don't read posts but skim over them, take in the words they want and then spout rubbish.

Again. Please read my post slowly and try to understand the meaning of my sentences, before you actually write untruths. Thank you.

It's a T word

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

' “Know your role and shut your mouth.”

Never will I shut my mouth.

There are always ways to speak freely without triggering censors, in these times where people actively look for anything they deem insulting, you can insult them with sarcasm. Or just take what they sling at you and hold up a metaphorical mirror to their words, a taste of their own medicine.

The social engineers work so hard at manipulating the masses to comply and fit in, but the masses don’t have any power, and those with power haven’t realised that they too can be made to comply and fit in. What happens when someone shifts the paradigm? Society has been fundamentally changed and everyone thinks they and their side won.

You can’t kill an idea, and a good idea will take root and grow strong. No matter the resistance faced along the way, eventually what is right will be as plain as day.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
a reply to: BingoMcGoof

' “Know your role and shut your mouth.”

Never will I shut my mouth.

There are always ways to speak freely without triggering censors, in these times where people actively look for anything they deem insulting, you can insult them with sarcasm. Or just take what they sling at you and hold up a metaphorical mirror to their words, a taste of their own medicine.

The social engineers work so hard at manipulating the masses to comply and fit in, but the masses don’t have any power, and those with power haven’t realised that they too can be made to comply and fit in. What happens when someone shifts the paradigm? Society has been fundamentally changed and everyone thinks they and their side won.

You can’t kill an idea, and a good idea will take root and grow strong. No matter the resistance faced along the way, eventually what is right will be as plain as day.

The Rock was being theatrical with that line as of course his character demanded. It was a poor way to sumerize what I was trying to get at. Maybe a better one would have been to suggest the ''pearls before swine'' idea.

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

I fail to see your point? Other than shrugging your shoulders and saying oh well, do you have one?

a reply to: AllisVibration

You responded to my coment on ''know your place and shut up''. My point, I guess I can convey as know ''thyself'' rather than ''place''. Knowing ones place is an other directed position while knowing oneself is an inner directed position. Does that make sense?

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

Yes I get that, but I don’t see what it has to do with the thread topic about censorship. I did read your replies in this thread fully and not sure exactly what your opinion is on the topic?

a reply to: AllisVibration

It has to do with how we react to censorship.Do we speak out until the censors pick us out and decide that we are a threat to them or do we just piss and moan anonymously on an obscure website . Of course we are censored, but what will we do about it that has not been already tried since Carlin's ''seven dirty words'' back in 72. We can't even use those here, fifty years later.

Leftists have fought against censorship for decades and conservatives have railed against censorship for just as long and what do we have now? CENSORSHIP.

So for me, the real issue is not that there IS censorship but rather how we as individuals deal with it,

a reply to: BingoMcGoof

I thought I already proposed a solution to censorship, maybe I just imagined that, but it’s not hard to substitute words with others of more or less the same meaning, or even invent entirely new words altogether. People could take a cue from Harry Potter and call it “that which must not be named” but everyone knows what is being referred too. It’s all about context.

Orwell predicted all this, so now we have the ministry of truth poking it’s nose into everything, attempting to correct “wrong think” what they have overlooked though is human creativity and imagination.
Though I must admit it all goes much deeper than this and the relatively few that do get it are indeed casting pearls before swine.

a reply to: AllisVibration

Thank you for that reply. Many times, finding just one point in a reply that offers many to respond to is difficult but from yours I find this.

human creativity and imagination.
Though I must admit it all goes much deeper than this and the relatively few that do get it are indeed casting pearls before swine.

For me it's not the ''getting it'' that is important but rather the the attempt to do the deeper digging, the fuller soul searching, the willingness to hold up Escher's ''Self Portrait'' and peer into it.

There is also the caution of being trampled beneath the feet of rampaging swine juxtaposed with the drive to, again cautiously, opening up in search for others with like minded shovels.

In the past month (maybe 2) I've had posts of mine on ATS removed for a supposed violation of terms and conditions for no apparant reason whatsoever (other than some people not liking the information in the post). No specific reason given, no explanation what was the supposed "serious" violation of the terms and conditions. Looked like a blatant paintjob to discredit the rest of my commentary in the same thread. One post contained an explanation as to what a red herring fallacy is (commonly used in response to my commentary on ATS, but also in response to other people's commentary). Another primarily contained Bible quotations. No nasty words, no foul language, none of the usual filth or trolling on ATS. The comments were calm, honest, reasonable, respectful, polite, spot on and to the point.

You also can't ask what you did wrong in the eyes of the moderator. Talk about control of the conversation. And the irony, the troll comments (often with red herrings or deliberate misinterpretations and twisting of the points I was actually making) remain, filled with insults, filth, ridicule and ad hominems, making it about me instead of what I'm saying or talking about, often responding to straw men people prefer to read into my comments, reading things into my commentary that aren't there. And not just a simple misunderstanding, no, blatant re-interpretations of what I'm actually saying or pointing out, to facilitate ridicule and/or paintjobs, painting something negative onto my commentary, which apparently the moderators play along with (with another false paintjob that paints a supposed "serious" violation of the terms and conditions, just another paintjob to discredit when it's not even close to the truth of the matter; apparently, honesty is not appreciated here, nonsense and plain filth is much preferred, especially when the comment is short and has nothing of value or benefit to anyone).

Proverbs 30:12

There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes

But has not been cleansed from its filth.* [Lit., “excrement.”]

Too much crap/excrement on ATS or YT. The crap always remains. Exposing the crap in a calm, honest, reasonable, respectful and polite way is not allowed. Or giving people a heads-up how unhealthy all this is for both minds and hearts as well as who is behind this behaviour, especially if you do it in a way that is logical and respectful, with a genuine concern for the well-being of my fellow man (as in mankind), my brothers and sisters of the same human family we all belong to, with the same enemy: "the god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4) "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" (Rev. 12:9) by means of a 2-pronged attack on both minds and hearts, getting people to behave as dishonest trolls, “puffed up with pride, not understanding anything,” unwisely letting themselves become “mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words,” things that produce disunity and a host of bad results.—1 Tim. 6:3-5. Often looking for ways to create strife, slander someone and spread "wicked suspicions" about the one they are trying to discredit (I've seen it happen to other people as well). 1 Timothy 6:3-5:

If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.

Note that the translation I used earlier renders "obsessed with" as "mentally diseased over", cause we are talking about a mental disease here, a corruption of the mind, courtesy of the god of this system of things. In some cases reaching the point of insanity, or as described in the Bible, "extreme foolishness". How can I sit here, see this happening, and not care, not even try to give people a logical, reasonable, calm, honest and respectful heads-up about it and what has been done to their hearts and minds? And encourage them to seek help for their condition in the right place, from the right source, the only source that is trying to heal people for their own good, and warn them about where all this is coming from, the cause for such total devastation of minds and hearts, who is molding them right now as opposed to who they should allow to mold and heal them. Who is their spiritual father right now as opposed to who should be their spiritual Father if they want their minds and hearts to be healthy, filled with beneficial knowledge and understanding, and maybe even some wisdom.

John 8:42-47

Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

Matthew 13:13-15

That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“And stop being molded by this system of things,* [ Or “this age.”] but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

originally posted by: whereislogic
... And the irony, the troll comments (often with red herrings or deliberate misinterpretations and twisting of the points I was actually making) remain, filled with insults, filth, ridicule and ad hominems, making it about me instead of what I'm saying or talking about, often responding to straw men people prefer to read into my comments, reading things into my commentary that aren't there. And not just a simple misunderstanding, no, blatant re-interpretations of what I'm actually saying or pointing out, to facilitate ridicule and/or paintjobs, painting something negative onto my commentary, ...; apparently, honesty is not appreciated here, nonsense and plain filth is much preferred, especially when the comment is short and has nothing of value or benefit to anyone).

... Often looking for ways to create strife, slander someone and spread "wicked suspicions" about the one they are trying to discredit (I've seen it happen to other people as well). 1 Timothy 6:3-5:

If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.

Case in point, the response I recently got from someone who has also commented in this thread, to a comment of mine that quoted John 3:19-21:

Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men* [Or “people.”] have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved.* [Or “exposed.”] 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”

Now the "judgment" referred to above, is clearly talking about God's judgment, not mine. Yet the person in question responded with an attempt to paint the discrediting paintjob and slanderous accusation "judgmental" on me ("making it about me instead of what I'm saying or talking about"), there was nothing judgmental in my commentary whatsoever (also not in the rest of the commentary; it's like it's a triggerword for them, 'ah, just what I wanted to hear to put them into that box', prepared by this system of things, the box with the label "judgmental Christian"). And of course, it was another short comment "with nothing of value or benefit to anyone". Pushing buttons. Not really different from what is referred to as "trolling" by many people on the internet. Whereas I'm just quoting or referring to teachings that can be found in God's word in order to help or benefit anyone that might read it, cause He is the one trying to heal people, these are not my words or my teachings. I take no credit for them (also not when I'm not directly quoting but merely talking about them, sometimes paraphrasing or incorporating them into my sentences). As described at 2 Corinthians 4:3-9 (another text I quoted in the same thread I think, could be another thread):

If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is the one who said: “Let the light shine out of darkness,” and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate them with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ.

7 However, we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the power beyond what is normal may be God’s and not from us. 8 We are hard-pressed in every way, but not cramped beyond movement; we are perplexed, but not absolutely with no way out;* [Or possibly, “but not left in despair.”] we are persecuted, but not abandoned; we are knocked down, but not destroyed.

"not from us": these teachings, these warnings, these pieces of advice, these friendly well-meaning heads-ups that I speak of do not come from me, they come from God, sometimes straight out of his mouth (when quoted directly from God's word for example). And He is just trying to help you "for your own good", because you do have an enemy screwing around with your hearts and minds, the one whose influence on you you are ignoring (the way those who are addicted to harmful drugs or alcohol tend to deny their addictions as well when a friend who cares for their well-being tries to warn them about it; it is the same addiction to symbolic "darkness" spoken of at John 3:19-21). Isaiah 48:17,18:

This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel:

“I, Jehovah, am your God,

The One teaching you to benefit yourself,* [Or “for your own good.”]

The One guiding you in the way you should walk.

18 If only you would pay attention to my commandments!

Then your peace would become just like a river

And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

2 Timothy 3:16,17:

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Proverbs 29:1

A man who stiffens his neck* [Or “who remains stubborn.”] after much reproof

Will suddenly be broken beyond healing.

Rather than denoting a person who is lacking in mental ability, the word “fool,” as used in the Bible, generally refers to an individual who spurns reason and follows a morally insensible course out of harmony with God’s righteous standards. It is not an insult, ridicule or anything of the kind. Isaiah said a fool, or senseless person, will speak “mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself.” (Isa 32:6) The fool despises wisdom and discipline. (Pr 1:7) Instead of heeding counsel, the fool continues walking in a way he considers “right in his own eyes.” (Pr 12:15) He is quick to take offense and bursts out in disputing. (Ec 7:9; Pr 20:3) He says in his heart (his actions indicating what his lips may not say in so many words): “There is no Jehovah.”​—Ps 14:1.

Jesus Christ rightly referred to the scribes and Pharisees as “fools and blind ones,” that is, persons lacking wisdom and being morally worthless, for they had distorted the truth by man-made traditions and followed a hypocritical course. Moreover, Jesus backed up the correctness of this designation by illustrating their lack of discernment. (Mt 23:15-22; 15:3) However, the individual wrongly calling a brother a “despicable fool,” judging and condemning his brother as being morally worthless, would make himself liable to Gehenna.​—Mt 5:22; Ro 14:10-12; Mt 7:1, 2. (if you read Mt 5:22, you can see that the motive is entirely different in that case, in that case, it is often an insult, or ridicule, a common occurance on ATS as well, although they may not always spell out the term "despicable fool", but instead use terms such as "judgmental" to trigger that picture in the minds of others, which has a detrimental effect on both their hearts and minds. Pushing the buttons of hatred and pride in the process, see the following article for details concerning the tactic of "playing on the emotions" where those buttons are mentioned: The Manipulation of Information; Awake!—2000)

originally posted by: Hecate666
a reply to: Terpene

Do you mean me as 'someone'? Also I am female. Always have been.
You also didn't read my post.
I see a pattern here. It's certain people who don't read posts but skim over them, take in the words they want and then spout rubbish.

Again. Please read my post slowly and try to understand the meaning of my sentences, before you actually write untruths. Thank you.

You nailed it. See my previous comment concerning the word "judgment" for a more detailed analysis of this behaviour, Terpene knows whose response I was referring to in that comment. Also keep in mind that what you referred to as "rubbish" I referred to as "crap" (and God refers to as "filth/excrement" at Proverbs 30:12) in my first comment in this thread.

Concerning your second point, in my first comment I was talking about the behaviour of deliberately mis-interpreting what I'm talking about or the points I'm making, for the purpose of ridicule and discrediting paintjobs, painting something negative on my commentary. Or for bringing up red herrings or straw man versions of my commentary to respond to instead. The irony is that when it happens to them, they sometimes complain about it, completely ignoring the fact that they are doing the same thing either to the one they are complaining to as having done it to them, or to others. As predicted by God. For example, God’s Word, the Bible, says: “Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) So they pick up the behaviour from those doing it to them, and 'repay evil with evil, injury with injury', trolling with trolling. (metaphorically speaking, human trolls are the product of the conditioning, indoctrination and brainwashing conducted by "the god of this system of things" "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" by means of "the teachings of demons", whose teachings are further spread among mankind "by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron." 2Cor 4:4; Rev 12:9; 1 Tim 4:1,2) 1 Thessalonians 5:15:

See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.

Romans 12:17,18

17 Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of* [Or “in the sight of.”] all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.

1 Peter 3:9

9 Do not pay back injury for injury or insult for insult. Instead, repay with a blessing, for you were called to this course, so that you might inherit a blessing.

Coming back to your mention of a "pattern", it is an aspect of this pattern that you are noticing:

Spirit of the World (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Definition: The impelling force that influences human society made up of those who are not servants of Jehovah God, causing such people to say and do things according to a characteristic pattern. Although people act on individual preferences, those who manifest the spirit of the world give evidence of certain basic attitudes, ways of doing things, and aims in life that are common to the present system of things of which Satan is ruler and god.

Why is being tainted by the spirit of the world a matter of serious concern?

1 John 5:19: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (Satan has fostered a spirit that dominates the thinking and activities of those of mankind who are not Jehovah’s approved servants. It is a spirit of selfishness and pride that is so pervasive that it is like the air that humans breathe. We need to exercise great care not to submit to Satan’s power by letting that spirit mold our lives.)

...

What are some of the characteristics of the spirit of the world against which we need to be on guard?

...

Doing what a person wants to do, without regard for the will of God

...

Reacting to situations on the basis of pride [whereislogic: this is a huge one, that's why I bolded it further above as well]

It was Satan who first allowed an overestimation of self to corrupt his heart. (Compare Ezekiel 28:17; Proverbs 16:5.) Pride is a divisive force in the world of which he is ruler, causing people to consider themselves better than those of other races, nations, language groups, and economic status. ...

Or to add one at the end there, people with different opinions/beliefs/thoughts/ideas. Which often results from a propaganda technique described here (which is part of the section called "playing on the emotions"):

Some propagandists play on pride. Often we can spot appeals to pride by looking for such key phrases as: “Any intelligent person knows that . . .” or, “A person with your education can’t help but see that . . .” A reverse appeal to pride plays on our fear of seeming stupid. Professionals in persuasion are well aware of that.

So the last bolded one is 2 emotions at once whose buttons are pushed, pride and fear (fear is discussed seperately 3 paragraphs before that). On the next page there is another example given for pushing the pride button, I'll bold it (I'll get to the source later).

... They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target.

The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say.

How can you protect yourself from the types of people that the Bible calls “profitless talkers” and “deceivers of the mind”? (Titus 1:10) Once you are familiar with some of their tricks [whereislogic: discussed in more detail on the previous page], you are in a better position to evaluate any message or information that comes your way. Here are some ways to do this.

Be selective: [partially quoted in my signature] ...

...

Source: The Manipulation of Information (Awake!—2000)
Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda!

This video speaks about the spirit of the world as well, as well as some other manifestations of it (but pride is usually involved at some level again):

Proverbs 16:18

Pride is before a crash,

And a haughty spirit before stumbling.

2 Timothy 3:1-9

But know this, that in the last days+ critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men.