It's 15 years since Hidden Hand's dialogue with ATS members.

a reply to: Compendium

Ooops! I got half way through a reply, something came up so I tried to C & P to complete later, but being technically challenged I stuffed up as I always do, so will return later... Duh! ( I went to 'preview' so no idea where that part post is now)

a reply to: Compendium



Another comprehensive reply with an abundance of interesting facts & details to pursue - thank you! I’m in awe of your esoteric knowledge. The depictions of the Galaxy & the brain, side by side, were mind blowing (pun there, somewhere?).

On reflection my question - essentially, what is Man - was unintentionally a little facetious. I'm aware that, whilst others may point one in the right direction, or more for example: 'When the pupil is ready, the Teacher will appear’, one has to do the work ones-self. No stand ins.

And I'm also aware that one will not find answers to serious questions like that in a book, at the movies or on the Net (though again, direction may be given). One has to go within one's own essence. I get that.

But I have another, more personal question for Compendium, if I may, but perhaps I can preface it with some of my own personal experience that may give perspective to that question.

Years ago, I spent about a decade in a 'school', under discipline, learning about & seeking the truth - largely but not exclusively studying Eastern religious traditions - and after 3 years was initiated into meditation. The instruction, covering quite a wide range of activities took up an increasing amount of time but essentially had as one of the main 'aims' to observe the mind, to bring it under some sense of order and then to use discrimination for 'right action'. That was the 'work on ones-self' as I understood it.

At the time I was also running a small business and the strain & stress of trying to do both led me close to a nervous breakdown. No. Truth is, I had one, but relatively mild & brief. Then I had two obe's in fairly quick succession that confirmed for me, without doubt, that 'I was not this body' (and all that follows from that observation) and I held on for a while longer, before Mammon eventually won & I left the school, to indulge in materialism & the senses, in all their glory.

In passing, years later, at 3AM one morning I had a nde where my breathing & heartbeat stopped. I slipped away from life, no bright lights, no visions of Jesus or Saints, none of that, just a steady moving away.. a tunnel would be the closest comparison.

Initially there was total fear & panic, then increasing joy & 'that peace which passeth all understanding' (there was no ‘time’ as such; it seemed to happen simultaneously but I can’t describe it other than in linear time terms)

My wife, in deep sleep beside me, sensed somehow in her innermost being I was 'in trouble' (as she described it later) and thumped me hard across the chest with her fore-arm and this brought me back. We had quite a surreal conversation before going back to sleep..

‘What happened?”
“I think I died. You saved me”
“Are you alright now?”
“I think so”
“Can we talk about it later?”
“OK”
“’Nite”
“’Nite”

So where was I? Oh yes, the question I have is this: Am I correct in saying that to be initiated, one needs guidance by an Initiate, someone with higher knowledge who imparts that knowledge to you and that it is a process that ends (hopefully) in greater self-realisation ? Often, I understand, it can take a life time or many, many life times.

If that is the case, why does one need multiple initiations, shouldn’t one be enough? Or two, maybe, if the first one, for what ever reason, is a mistake/wrong path?

I’m a gob-spit away from death and from my comments & experience one would correctly assume that I have no fear of death. But I agree with the wag who said, “I have no fear of death..I just don’t want to be around when it happens..” LOL!

I’ve had a blessed life, a wonderful life and thank ***God every day – as Rumi – who I only recently discovered ..where was he hiding.. said :
“If you only say one prayer in a day, make it Thank You”

So ‘Thank You’

This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at what you thought was your grief.
Rumi 1207 - 1273

*** And returning to my original post, I struggle with the concept of HH's depiction (confirmed to some extent in other works such as "The Secret Doctrine") that, whilst there is One Absolute (my terminology) there are 'sub-Gods or Logos'. I sort of intellectually accept that, but more disturbing is that the one in charge of this Realm particularly, is an angry & jealous God; powerful but flawed.

Q. So to whom are my prayers going? A.( I hope) it doesn't matter as it's what's in the heart that counts.

Hey, Compendium, any thoughts on this specific area, ie Gods & sub Gods/Logos?

a reply to: ThisPlaceIsADream

Hi ThisPlaceIsADream

Welcome back from your trip

I have started writing up a response for you, but it may take me a few days to finish and post due to my condition, as I explained earlier

In the mean time, the lyrics to this song seemed very appropriate to your response. From a aptly named band, for someone named ThisPlaceIsADream

Speak soon

Compendium

originally posted by: KnowItAllKnowNothin
a reply to: Compendium

Pure gravy Compster.
Thank-you.

Have you been to see a Naturopath, or Shaman, for your ailments ?
Perhaps the new initiation, needn't require the passing of your meat-suit ?

( Maybe it is only my ego, that wants to keep you around. )

I actually have an appointment tomorrow with a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner to try acupuncture

Thanks for your concern

For your reply to focus on asking me that, out of everything I posted, speaks to your good nature

I appreciate it allot

a reply to: Compendium

I’ve always been interested in how traditional acupuncture works, the meridian lines, how they discovered them? I know there have been many successful treatments with this approach, I hope it goes well for you.

I also find hypnosis/hypnotherapy fascinating, this is something I intend to take up a serious study of myself, so far I have just scratched the surface. I find the costs of getting qualified prohibitive however, and Have never been a fan of the structured and rote learning of the academic approach. The pioneers and greats all ventured into new territory, alone and were often mocked by their contemporaries. It these champions of discovery I take inspiration from.

originally posted by: ThisPlaceIsADream
a reply to: Compendium

On reflection my question - essentially, what is Man - was unintentionally a little facetious

I would not say facetious. Just a little too broad. It is not something which can be defined for offering. Rather something which defines itself within the experience, through that which can be offered

It is a perfectly legitimate thing to wonder on and consider such things through broad eyes, as such is one of the purest beauties within the manner of our creation

This is why it is hard to give you a defining answer on such a thing. Even if I were to believe I knew exactly "what" we are, "why" we are here, and "how" we came to be here. It is not something which I should promote to you, in any definitive type of answer

As this limits your potential to wonder on the beauty of all the possibilities this world has to offer

This is why Illumination teaches you how to think. Rather than what to think, or believe

Because deterministic will, is the death of possibility

And within possibility, is the beauty of wonder and all the things which make it amazing to be here, and be human

Probability = Prophecy - The path of least resistance. That which is most likely to happen
Possibility = Prayer - That path less traveled. That which is less likely to happen

This concept connects to the Chi-Rho


The Chi-Rho teaches that everything in existence is composed of varying "degrees" and measure of angle and potential

Alpha = Angle
Omega = Potential

Within this, are the lines of probability and the realm of possibility

Though the words prayer and prophecy have been mistranslated, the intended meaning of the words is still carried in what is perceived

When people pray, they are using the alignment of their individual conscious, or collective consciousness, to try steer something away from the line of probability (being the less desirable outcome), to something within the realm of possibility (being the more desirable outcome)

Likewise, with prophecy, being a misunderstood interpretation of the nature of probability. Mainly, within the reading of certain patterns and cycles

*Within Illumination, you are taught to recognise and understand patterns and cycles within complex non-linear dynamics, by re-wiring your linear mind, to think in both directions across perceivable spectrum and things like "time"

Rudolph Steiner introduced similar exercises such as "backwards review" within Rosicrucianism, which trains your brain to think in a similar way

The Illuminated version of this uses native perceptive algorithm such as language, numbers and symbols, and is far more potent. But it is also far more complicated and painful to align with, as it amounts to very literally re-wiring and opening up parts of your brain you have never used before. When I say painful, I mean physically and psychologically. I can explain the exercises and how it is done to you some time, if you want to know

So where was I? Oh yes, the question I have is this: Am I correct in saying that to be initiated, one needs guidance by an Initiate, someone with higher knowledge who imparts that knowledge to you and that it is a process that ends (hopefully) in greater self-realisation ? Often, I understand, it can take a life time or many, many life times

If that is the case, why does one need multiple initiations, shouldn’t one be enough? Or two, maybe, if the first one, for what ever reason, is a mistake/wrong path?

Yes and no

Initiation is less a title, than it is a perspective of reflection upon "self" and the world, opposite to what we refer to as Conciliatory. I'll explain more in a moment

There is only one process of Initiation. It is just slightly different between cultures

Within the version of Illumination I went through, we go through the processes of various different cultures, to understand how they all fit together

More specifically, it is done to give a lineage of understanding that aligns and supersedes modern theology

The purpose of which is to free us from any possible misguided "collective perception" within modern religion. So that even the largest collective of its followers, hold no power of perceptive alignment or influence over us

In doing so, it is important that we are not seen as being "opposed" to them in any way

Merely aligned with an older and more accurate understanding of that which they offer

As with what I explained about the Chi-Rho, prayer and probability earlier in this post

---

"Initiation"

Everyone born in this world goes through a process of linear alignment as they grow, by which they learn to perceive themselves as an internalised "mind", looking outwards, to perceive an externalised world

Within the equilibrium (El'ohim) of a torus (Torah), such directional perception, causes us to seek a counter "balance", by which we can define ourselves

Within seeking a balance to the linear perception of self, many look towards a mirrored understanding of something "external" casting inwards upon themselves

Within Illumination, we refer to these people as CONCILIATORY

Conciliatory, basically, are any and all of those, who see themselves as subject to the creation. Rather than being intimately aligned with it

Those who see themselves subject to a creator, such as religion, spirituality, etc
Those who see themselves subject to a creator, such as an alien race, higher evolved species or entities, etc
Those who see themselves subject to the creation itself, such as scientists, etc
Those who see themselves subject to the creation itself, such as pagan, elementals, etc

None are inherently wrong, as all linear perception contains alignment of truth. Within such, they all can be said to contain important knowledge towards correlating an understanding of self, and the collective source of our creation

But it is all, primarily subjective. Meaning, none of it can ever provide a true alignment of source

Only a relative alignment. One that positions the individual who seeks as being subject to someone, or something else. Dependent on them, for their alignment to source

This is not the way in which are intended to balance our true understanding of self

Rather than seeking an "inwardly projecting" balance, to their "outwardly projecting" self, the initiate looks to project themselves "inwardly". Towards the source of that which projects outwards from within themselves

As I said earlier, this is very literally what the term "Initiate" means; "To go into"

Meditation, is a practice of Initiation
Self-reflection, is a practice of Initiation

Anything, which takes you to look inwards "inside yourself", is considered to be a practice of the initiate

Anything, which amounts to a form of inwards, or reverse "self reflection", is considered to be a practice of the initiate

This is why you find many conciliatory traditions like religion, to be actively opposed to practices such as meditation, at the same time as they promote prayer

Even though they are very much the same, prayer projects outwardly, in hopes of reflecting upon an inwardly projected source (a creator or God)

Whilst meditation projects inwardly, in hopes of reflecting upon the outwardly projected source (within self)

originally posted by: ThisPlaceIsADream
a reply to: Compendium
*** And returning to my original post, I struggle with the concept of HH's depiction (confirmed to some extent in other works such as "The Secret Doctrine") that, whilst there is One Absolute (my terminology) there are 'sub-Gods or Logos'. I sort of intellectually accept that, but more disturbing is that the one in charge of this Realm particularly, is an angry & jealous God; powerful but flawed.

Q. So to whom are my prayers going? A.( I hope) it doesn't matter as it's what's in the heart that counts.

Hey, Compendium, any thoughts on this specific area, ie Gods & sub Gods/Logos?

HH is misrepresenting the concepts of creation and decay within macrocosm/microcosm exchange of torus/sphere/cell

The torus of the tiniest cells, make up the composition of the larger cells torus. Who in turn make up the composition of the torus above

All the way from largest to smallest, they work together as one. As without any given layer, regardless of how big or small, none of them could exist

Even the decay, within things like sickness, corruption and destruction, is essential towards promoting new and improved forms of creation, within the vector exchange of the equilibrium

Logos refers to the systems and workings of any sphere of influence

Something which has been promoted within today's understanding of the word "Logo"

If you see the logo for a particular business, or company that is known to us, it carries with it an understanding of exactly how they operate

We see the logo for a known fast food chain, we recognise the products attached to that logo. The manner in which they are made, and the process we go through in order to obtain them

Likewise, if we were to look at a particular type of known cell, we recognise the potential of that cell. If it is a cell that causes disease or sickness. Or if it is one that promotes health and wellness

Likewise, if we were to look at the sun, we recognise its potential within things such as orbits, light and the promotion of life within the planets of the solar system, and their subsequent exchange to each other

This is logos

The recognition of the systems and workings, within any given sphere of influence

YHWH personifies the QUESTION

The first-person imperfect of "To be", is not "I am". It is "question"

That which the first person needs perceive, in order for it "to be"

This is where the misunderstanding of the translation "I am" comes from

It is not "I AM" in the perceived understanding of self-awareness of ones individuals conscious. But rather within the consideration of that which defines them

I AM LOVE, because I have been loved, and given love
I AM PAIN, because I have known pain, and given pain

The curiousity. The wonder. The beauty
As it is also ...
The horror. The melancholy. The disgrace

It is the question of that which defines you. Which amounts to the answer itself

With: אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎ (’ehye ’ăšer ’ehye), amounting to "The Question Answered Question"

As extended to the widely misunderstood: I am what/who I am

I love, therefore I am love
I seed and create, therefore I am creator

I pain, therefore I am pain
I consume and destroy, therefore I am decay

It is the understanding, that who you are by title, is unimportant. When compared to, that which we do

As is, a similar understanding of any possible "creator" that s supposed to be promoted

"Who" or "What" they are, is not important

All that is important, is that which they do. Or that which they have done for us

"You need not understand how a flower sprouts, to appreciate its beauty"

The original teachings state, that none should concern themselves with trying to define or name the source of our collective creation

As to do such, amounts to nothing more than an attempt to possess, own or claim rights to, that which is not yours to possess, own or claim rights to ...

Or that which you have not yet earned, and do not yet understand

"You do not know. So you should not present yourself as someone who does

Nor even, as one who assumes to give titles of affinity and ownership to such things unknowable

This is what is meant within the teachings that say "No one knows the true name of God"

What HH is promoting, is no different to fundamental problems promoted in relative belief systems. Where these concepts have been twisted and turned into something that is the exact opposite of what it is supposed to teach

"The question answered question" has been turned around, and interpreted to mean, that "the unknowable, can be defined, by a term of ownership, given to the unknowable"

But this is a corruption that can only ever lead to disputes in what is defined to be "held" in ownership by particular groups, within perception and belief

"My God, is better than, your God"

Because one person sees the source of creation as "God", whilst the other needs no such name to perceive the concept of a creative source

The reality is, that we found ourselves born into this world, as a mastered part of the creation, without the need for any perception of named concepts for our creation, such as "God"

It needed no help being named by us in our birth. So why would it need us to name it within our life?

The Jews understand the issue with the "named God" and tried to fix it, by promoting another corrupted, backwards concept, of the names of God being "sacred"

"If you do not know the name, then you should not name them like you do", became "Only those who understand the most among us, should use the name"

This has created a whole stigma, with people being reluctant to use the name, as they should be (because they do not know such things for certain, to be able to name them), without them understanding "why" they are reluctant to name such things

To irony is, that those that feel the need to define and name the unknown aspects within the source of our creation, are actually as far away from understanding the nature of our creative source, as any can be. Such as with those the Jews consider "worthy" to use such names

Your prayers should go to the source of our creation

You do not need to define it by name. Nor by any type of nature, other than that which gave you your ability to be here in this world

As it gave you your ability to live, so should you live for what it gave you
As it gave you the ability to love, so should you love for what it gave you

Within Illumination, we are taught that there are two states you can exist in within this world

Creation - Where you seek to give more back to this world, than you take, or is taken from you
Decay - Where you seek to take more from this world, than you give, or what is offered to you

All you need to do, is honour and love any possible version of the creator, regardless of how it could be perceived or named ...

By honouring and loving the creation, and the sacrifices made within it, so that you can persist

If you love the child, you love the parents
If you love the creation, you love the creator

God does not need you to name them, in order to be that which they are
If they do, then they are no God

Let God be, as God is
Unto you, as to your divinity

Also, within regards to the logos

There are sympathetic systems, and empathetic systems

Sabaoth = Sympathetic
Yaldabaoth = Empathetic

Yaldabaoth, are conciliatory systems. The need to be compared to a system of order

Sabaoth, is the far more powerful of the systems. The ability to exist without the need to be compared to a system of order

The Yaldabaoths only power is in the reflecting of something greater than itself

The seed of intelligence and creation lay within the Sabaoth, as it needs only balance within itself. As an image of creation, or the creator, itself

---

If you look at the sun, planet and your body, and see 3 individual centres of gravity, divided from each other in source and direction, this is Yaldabaoth/Empathy. A system of individual feeling, given through a shared path of centre (outside self)

If you look at the sun, planet and your body, and see 1 centre of gravity existing in 3 forms of phase, with/to itself, this is Sabaoth/Sympathy. A system of individual feeling, given as/of/with source and the course of path (through each, as through self)

This may seem backwards, to what we perceive sympathy and empathy to mean, but it is because Yaldabaoth/Empathy, as a system, allows the sun, world, and all the people around you to remain (detached and disconnected) uninfluenced individuals, as you yourself, retain your own individuality. A pure form of empathy

Whereas Sabaoth/Sympathy, as a system, means that you need balance your own intent, actions and ability to influence those around you, in order to allow them to remain free-thinking individuals

Because, by aligning yourself across all forms of centre, to the source (of creation), you also align yourself as a centre of gravity or "influence" within the logos

Sabaoth is a much harder path, because you become responsible for your ability to influence the world around you. Including influencing those who have aligned themselves to Yaldabaoth, who are inclined to then gravitate towards an external centre of influence, such as the Sabaoth aligned individual

Religion fears this alignment within individuals, because it is the same alignment that they use to gravitate people to their Churches, acting as the centre of influence

It is an alignment which can be misused to manipulate, control and dominate people

Such as with the story of Aleister Crowley walking behind someone, imitating the gate, posture and stride of their walk exactly. So that when he intentionally stumbles, he can make them trip and fall over

This influence is easy for the sympathetically aligned mind (Sabaoth) who knows the potential of their connection to the source intimately, when they are working against the emphatically aligned mind, who subjugate themselves by choice to such an external source

It is much harder, to measure yourself as Sabaoth, to not inadvertently or unwittingly influence or control others, be it intentionally, or unintentionally through an emotional connection

I will stop here though, as I am getting into principles of the ascension process, which are well beyond initiation

a reply to: AllisVibration

The pain I have in the right side of my chest constantly, shifted during my first session

Too early to give a verdict yet though. I'll wait till I've had a few more longer sessions

originally posted by: ThisPlaceIsADream
a reply to: Compendium

In passing, years later, at 3AM one morning I had a nde where my breathing & heartbeat stopped. I slipped away from life, no bright lights, no visions of Jesus or Saints, none of that, just a steady moving away.. a tunnel would be the closest comparison.

Initially there was total fear & panic, then increasing joy & 'that peace which passeth all understanding' (there was no ‘time’ as such; it seemed to happen simultaneously but I can’t describe it other than in linear time terms)

My wife, in deep sleep beside me, sensed somehow in her innermost being I was 'in trouble' (as she described it later) and thumped me hard across the chest with her fore-arm and this brought me back. We had quite a surreal conversation before going back to sleep..

‘What happened?”
“I think I died. You saved me”
“Are you alright now?”
“I think so”
“Can we talk about it later?”
“OK”
“’Nite”
“’Nite”

When the fear and panic gave way, do you remember what your "final thoughts" were?

What you described is nearly identical to a process we go through in Illumination

The understanding you are supposed to gain from this experience is deep and layered

The "final thoughts" are a massive key towards identifying the root of deep-seeded personal fear, pain and impurity

Fear - Mind (Blockages of future)
Pain - Heart (Blockages of past)
Impurity - Body (Blockages of gateway and direction)

Even if you were not fully aware of such thoughts, or remember them, there is a very good chance that they influenced particular changes in your life, and the way you perceive the world

The idea, is to purge all 3 aspects of your form of all blockages which could weigh you down, or stop you aligning to your greater potential and highest form of self

Were there particular regrets within the fear and panic, when you thought it was going to be your last moments alive?

More importantly, were those regrets of things you did?

Or of things you didn't do?

You final thoughts usually boil down to a few very simple words

But hidden within those simple words, is everything you need to find understanding that will lead you to peace, when it really does come time to leave this world

From the way you describe your experience, it seems like it was guided. I say this, because it seems your wife was used as an anchor

If it were a guided experience, there was something very specific it was supposed to give you

It could be as simple as shedding the fear of death and your own mortality

But there is likely various other layers behind it as well