Mech Combat Walker

What i liked about these "Pro-mech" people, or Anti-Tank people. is that they are comraing something that is Science fiction and relies heavily on "Unkownium" and "Poof" technology, to moderan era tanks.

It is complelty unfair to compare Clan Tech OmniMechs from Battle tech. Or Even Veritech battloids, Destroids, or Gundum Suits. To a M1A1 Abrams. SO why dont we comapre "Mechs" to Renegade Legions Grav tanks, Or Mark 30 Bolos, or even at least a non-transforming Robotech Southern Cross Era Hovertank.

I grew up watching animes of big stompy robots (Robotech) before big stompy robots were main stream. I love them and wish I could have my own. But I also knwo the cold hard truth that a lot of liberties are taken just to have Big Stompy robots be a standered military equipment.

Mechs also have to go halfway around a corner to fire thier weapons. Unless they have sensors or guidance systems mounted on the tips of thier "Weapon arm". But pray tell, why would a tank expose itself jsut so it could get a shot off? Most often it woudl rather set up an ambush, or flank the enemy before it woudl do that. me thinks you do not know much about moderan tank warfare.

In a city fight, most often Mechinzied infantry is used and small arms fire. But a mech fairs no better then Tanks in a city. since it relies on LOS to fire it's weapons.. just... like.. a... tank... does. RPGs and Mortars are really only good if you are on the defensive in the city.

Now with your little rant there point by point

*True of false can a tank move on all 3 axis of movement when ever it wants? Tracked no, Hover kinda, Grav, yes

*True of false can a mech move on all 3 axis of movement when ever it wants? Limited side movment (a horse has a hard time learning how to sidestep) for most mechs, Limited vertical movment for battletech mechs, no problem for "Gundam" style mechs

*just so you under stand tanks can't side step.
Tracked tanks cant, who knows about grav tanks, or hover tanks

*or rase or lower how tall they are at all
Grav tanks and hover tanks can..

*They have to turn before they can move in that direction.
Tracked tanks do, but that is why they have turrets, hover and grav tanks dont have to worry about that.

* The top speed on most tanks is only 40-60 miles per hour. The m1a1 can hit 70 but only for short times before it brakes down.
True, But a Grav tank could reach ground speeds near mach speed, and hover tanks could easly reach 100-200 mph

*Can a tank lay down no can a tank hide behind stuctures or other this to use as cover no
???? Not sure what you are meaning

*can a tank lift things up to higher levels no.
Tracked cant, is limited, and Grav tanks could

*Can a tank supply ground troops with fresh water no
Uh... there is a trailer hitch on most tanks

*can a tank move obsticals out of the way with out running them over or crushing them no.
Ever heard of minesweepers, or how the D-day troops got thru the Hedgreows? of FFS TOWING things out of the way

*Can a tank jump with out forward motion no.
Battletech era mechs have to be specially disgnined to "jump", and Grav tanks could "jump" without any improvements needed

*Can a tank fire infront of it then fire behind it in tight area IE allies and smaller streets no the gun is to big and would hit the walls.
Uh... the M1A2 gun is rather short for its caliber, But then it also have 3 7.62mm machine guns. and a mech would have the same problem given a proportiante sized tight area. But then again, no tank commander woudl let himself get into taht situation in the first place unless he had someone behind him wathing his back.

*Can a tank fire its main weapon at people on roofs above the tank no there is only a max elevation of around 35-45% the main gun can elivate if that.
Not many things can hit things on the roof to begin with unless you useing a ballstic type attack like mortars or artillery. Even Mechs would ahve a hard time hitting things on the roof from ground level.

The only thing in city fighting that a tank would be better aginst is other tanks... If a mech gets shot by a tank its down but maybe not out. If it takes a leg hit or arm hit it might be able to keep going. unlike a tank if the round goes into the cab area everyone is dead you hit the tread guess whats behind the tread crew cab.... you hit the front gues whats inside the front of the tank crew you hit the turrent guess whats inside the turrent. you hit the back you get the motor...

Uh... you obvisouly know nothign about the desgin of tanks, and agian are comparing a Futuristic Mech to currently designed tanks which is incredibly unfair. FYI in the first gulf war an M1A2 was hit by enemy fire, and had its ammunition blow. the crew survived and were able to STILL destroy the offending tank. FYI in GW1 a M1A1 was IMOBILISED and while waitinf for a recovery vehcile enganged 4 enemy tanks survived SEVERAL direct hits, destroyed the attacking tanks, with the last kill being done by tracking its heat plume in IR and firing the killing shot THRU A SAND DUNE!

Now take a Bolo Tank (keith laumer, great series check the link) the MARK XV bolo was compleltly autonomous, a mounted Hellbore cannons taht could take out spaceships in ORBIT and survivie direct hits from nuclear bombs. Now taht is a tank that puts mechs to SHAME!

It all comes down to uses mechs will never replace tanks on the battle field but in city I would reather have 2 mechs doing a patrol with 1-2 squads of men then having a hummer or APC along any day of the week.

LOL so would I. But I would rather have a PLatoon of tanks with Mechanized infatry doing a patrol in the city then 2 mechs. Heck, if I had time i would ahve the infantry set demolition charges and defend it against 2 mechs who will get buried in the rubble as a skyscrapper or high-rise building falls on them.

Can your mechs set demo charges like infantry can and leave traps like that?

I don't really like the idea of large walkers in the battle field. How would a walker be better in forests? Unlevel ground with possible landslides and such, a small tank or Exo-suit would be much better, and easier to engineer.

My ideal would be the either a APUs from Matrix Rev, or something akin to what the weapons designer from Aliens is now working on with the government (can't remember his name so searching is useless) - it's like a small grade Exo-skeleton that can be worn under uniforms (with minimal parts visible).

Jehosephat is right about the whole comparison thing, while I would see some uses for small mechs at the most as I describe before for sentry and close in heavy weapons support. The reality is that mech would have to compared to comparable Technological counterparts (be it tanks or helicopters, hopers/skimmers) like Jehosephat states and then you would see just were everything stacks up. The closest thing to a mech and it's not a mech by most people definitions would be armored exoskeletons like they used in starship trooper and such imagine a knight’s suit for the 2xXX with artificial muscles and such. this brings up my whole light saber analogy even if you have the advance technology to make it practical would it really be any better than what we currently have (at our tech levels hundreds of years behind) and would you not make something exponentially better and more efficient with the same amount of technological advances maybe even a lot less complicated and a lot more practical for military operation.

I don't think we will ever see gundam or mad cats on the battle fields any time soon I never said there would be I said SMALL mechs IE GEARS

gundam 80 feet tall weight how knows

mad cat 45 feet tall 75 tons

gear 13-15 feet tall 10-20 tons


You all are thinking on the wrong scale....... these will not hold world distroying super guns or 260 lrm 20's I'm talking about 1 smallarms 30-50cal weapon and a 30-45mm heavy weapon and maybe a anti tank rocket or anti air rocket thats it.........


www.dp9.com...
www.dp9.com...


click to see bigger picture... Little bigger then I would like but gives a idea by the way the cha's are around 5'4" tall they are almost the shortest cha's in the anima....

I'm not talking about what mechs will be like in 50-100 years I'm talking about near term mechs. We are only lacking one tech that would make it posible shoot it might even be around right now and not know it.



as for could GEARS set traps yes... THEY HAVE HANDS..... THE ARE NOT MECH WARRAR MECHS WITH GUNS FOR ARMS....

your one to talk about comparing future to future weapons... 32,000 ton tank my god your nuts... its a rolling/hovering building.... you really need to get a grip...... THINK SMALL GEAR/Mech........

as for a gear fireing in close quarters a GEAR can move its gun just like a man so drop the barrel to the ground or up in the air rotate body point gun in other direction..... The gun is mounted like a man would hold it with his hands.......

You say compairing apples to oranges I say your compairing apples to 32,000 tanks...... 10-25 tons vs. 32,000 tons well lets see who is going to win there give me a brake.... Then you freak out saying I guess you don't know the first thing about tank and the bring out your 32,000 ton monster... geezzz............ ooo look a m1a1 what got hit in the treads/side



from inside the turrent well

behind the gunner seat

gunner seat

breach of the main gun

safty guard

network box
[img]http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/missile_mystery6.jpg
braker box

it hit the far side of the tank and went another 45mm deep inside the turrent wall.

Well sence I know nothing about tank's I guess this is not where the crew of a tank is stored at???? Looks like a gunners chair would have a gunner in it... I could be wrong though....

As for fireing on the roof I did not mean lobing round onto the top of the roof I ment lets say there are insergents firing RPG's down on top of your patrol the gear/mech rases his gun and rakes the edge of the roof to keep the insergents from poking there little heads up.... or using the 40mm gun blow holes in there cover or shoot once hiding behind the edge of the roof...

You are right though a m1a2 is very good at taking damage I guess I should have compaired it to russian made t-82 they pop like fire crackers...
one problem I see with your story I know its true but you fuged on a part it was imoblaized but if the amunition store exploded then how did it have ammo to kill the 4 other tanks that attacked it? And if you say they handed off the ammo to them they could not put it in the ammo store because it was exploded and full of exploded ammo containers...... If your going to say a story please try to get it right... There are several version flooting around of that 1 is its got stuck in the mud and the other is it got its tread blown then I guess there is your version. OOOO by the way the story comes out of a book by the way somthing by tom clancy....



[edit on 29-4-2005 by shadarlocoth]

2 complelty differant stories.

See taht is the problem you have.. you don't even bother to explain the mechs your talking about and the Topic started with MEchwarrior Mechs and then start backpedaling and say you ment "Gears" when you realize the fallicy of your argument in comaprision to something that you think is inferior. A mechs hands unless they are being controled by thought probes, or movement mimicing, cannot do the delicate taste of setting up a buidling for a controled demolition. To say that they could is nothing but arrogance.

Currently the only mech that is in existance is a forestry vehcile with 6 spiderlike legs used to chop down trees in areas where there is poor soil. THey are also currelty working on a crude exo-skeleton but that is mainly to increase the troopers strength so they can carry heavier weapons into combat.

Your "Gears" are still as much Fantesy as Bolo's, Gundam Mechs, or Starship Trooper power armor. And I would use a comparision of the Dominion Tank Police "Mini Tanks" to counter them. Small nimible, armored, and fast. Whcih are A lot cheaper and easier to to produce them a Mech or exoskeleton, and can performed the same duty of armored mobile units

here is a prototype mock up I guess of the power armor the US is working on for the 2020 project. Supposed to be the black uniform on the left.


federalvoice.dscc.dla.mil...

Post edit:

sorry forgot to add the smaller tanks are definitely on the drawing boards, I saw a program on the discovery channel with and Electric power plant and composite armor that was a lot smaller than what we are used to seeing. if they came make composite (light) armor that is strong enough to withstand a decent amont of hell we woulnd't ever need mechs. just make a single man tank the side of a compact car or so (smaller than a big SUV) and and you would be able to fit more weapons than a realisticly size mech which I say is around 10-12 ft at the most. all I remember about the prototype tank is that it was black and because of it's power plant could run virtually silent and was very fast, maybe somebody remembers what I'm talking about.

[edit on 4/29/2005 by Oblivions void]

if you would have followed my link in the first place I never sayed walking 30 foot tall mechs look at my posts they all said small 12-15 foot tall mechs... FOLLOW LINKS when people refer to them....

yea, who said they have to be hugh like ones in mech warriors, twice as tall as normal humans would do.

now i realy want to go back and get a PHD in enginering robotics

first design tripods from war of the worlds only WITH FOUR LEGS
code name:"centar .01"

Originally posted by Jehosephat

Now take a Bolo Tank (keith laumer, great series check the link) the MARK XV bolo was compleltly autonomous, a mounted Hellbore cannons taht could take out spaceships in ORBIT and survivie direct hits from nuclear bombs. Now taht is a tank that puts mechs to SHAME!

i know what i want for x-mas i think ill go lppk for a tank girl to be captin
good thred

Wow, bolo tank?

I don't understand the taboo against mechs. If humans can hike mountains, run over fields and dive into water, then so can a heavily armed mecha. Maybe if someone actually put serious effort into building one it would prove just how obsolete tanks will become.

And really, nobody on here has ever played Metal Gear Solid? You get to operate REX in MGS4 even.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Wow, bolo tank?

I don't understand the taboo against mechs.

Because they are 100% unrealistic with current and foreseeable technology, besides being pointless, and as such have no place in a serious discussion. I have to say that despite having read and enjoyed a couple of dozen Battletech novels.

Powered Armour could become possible, but only in man-sized dimensions.

If humans can hike mountains, run over fields and dive into water, then so can a heavily armed mecha.

Nope. Weight grows disproportionally with size. I don´t remember the exact formula, but when you double the size you (at least) quadruple the weight. There is a reason Insects have an upper limit in size, and the same reason applies to hulking metal beasts.

reply to post by Lonestar24


I must drop all these BattleTech & RoboTech fans to the wayside and bring up a personal and slightly more realistic mech. Anyone ever play Rifts??? The GlitterBoy power armor made sense. It stood at 10 ft tall and was armed with a "Boom-Gun" or a supped up rail gun. The big advantage I could see w/ mech would be supplying power for weapon systems IF the whole power system could be made more practical. I.E. no leaking nuclear radiation when damaged. Mech systems would work good as artillery but not as a tank replacement. The kid in me still drools over the idea of big robots blowing up each other, but the adult side realizes how unlikely it is.

I browsed through the post's and did not see what I am about to link to mentioned.

There has been a working model produced of a "suit" that could very easily be modified to resemble what we think of as a mech suit.

Watch the video to see for yourself.

Youtube Video

A machine like this could very easily have armor and weaponry attached to it. This design does not allow for an autonomous machine, it very much needs a wearer.

Interesting thread! This is something I did about 4 years ago.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c8284418fb54.jpg[/atsimg]

the really only good thing a mech could do is scare the piss out of a group of insurgents, would be zero effective in battle, they'd be easily taken down by the simplest means, remember Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi, they took the walkers down relatively easy and using primitive means

tanks, Hummer's and Ah,as well as air craft all can be defeated by low tec weapons, so can man, but add them all together what would you get? oh ya man is not inside the machine but ROV control, the DARPA program is just a test bed for this new system, the agility of man the armor of a tank the mobility of a hummer, the ability to hover and the speed of a f22, now how is that for the ultimate fighting platform? take on a person, to a city with just one of thees, that is some serious whoop A$$ just hope it does not go AI,how would you stop it?

Originally posted by ArchangelOfCool
If we get portable shields for the troops, I wanna know what the weapons to combat them would be? Supposedly lasers wouldnt work, neither would explosives.

The Electromagnetic Pulse Guass Rifle is what will take these beasts down!

MUHUWUAHAHAHAHAAAAA !!!!

yup, the rifle you refered to is great to use.