What is the end goal for the left on the 2nd?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

I see, so it's the guns that have a people problem?

Bullets want to fly free, but people just keep getting in the way and get them all bent out of shape.

I have owned this .22lr pistol for a long time, over 20 years. I have shot possibly 1000 rounds through it.
In all that time, it has never once went off or fired a round without me pulling the trigger.

Once you do enough research, and fully comprehend how a firearm functions, you may learn that a gun is an inanimate object, not capable of thought or action by itself. In order for it to do anything other than just lay there, you have to pick it up. When someone is shot, or multiple people are shot, it's not because of a gun, it's because of a person who pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the person who got shot. It's basic physics. Check into it.

The

bit I put at the end was to indicate that it was sarcastic.

... and only an average of 50 rounds/year?

this one doesn't get much range time. My Ruger is the favourite, followed by the TX22. But seeing you argue how awful guns are, then going to great lengths to prove NZ also has guns is comical. Are the guns in NZ safer? Better behaved? Perhaps the ammo sold there is the non aggressive kind. Either way, your arguments circle back on themselves, and really don't make much sense.

Compare the statistics for gun homicide in the respective countries.

In 2017, the USA had 12.25 gun deaths per 100,000 population. In 2017, New Zealand had 0.74 gun deaths per 100.000 population.

The year before, New Zealand had a total of 9 gun deaths. That same year, the USA had 38,658 gun deaths.

However, after law changes subsequent to the Christchurch mass shooting, New Zealand's gun death rate has been virtually non-existent.

NZ guns must be safer than US guns.

Perhaps rather than your crusade to tell everyone in a nation you don't live what to believe about guns, you should be working on importing some of these peaceful guns to the US. Think of all the lives you could save by bringing such peace to such a violent place. You have opend my eyes on this one.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

I see, so it's the guns that have a people problem?

Bullets want to fly free, but people just keep getting in the way and get them all bent out of shape.

I have owned this .22lr pistol for a long time, over 20 years. I have shot possibly 1000 rounds through it.
In all that time, it has never once went off or fired a round without me pulling the trigger.

Once you do enough research, and fully comprehend how a firearm functions, you may learn that a gun is an inanimate object, not capable of thought or action by itself. In order for it to do anything other than just lay there, you have to pick it up. When someone is shot, or multiple people are shot, it's not because of a gun, it's because of a person who pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the person who got shot. It's basic physics. Check into it.

The

bit I put at the end was to indicate that it was sarcastic.

... and only an average of 50 rounds/year?

this one doesn't get much range time. My Ruger is the favorite, followed by the TX22. But seeing you argue how awful guns are, then going to great lengths to prove NZ also has guns is comical. Are the guns in NZ safer? Better behaved? Perhaps the ammo sold there is the non aggressive kind. Either way, your arguments circle back on themselves, and really don't make much sense.

Look at the statistics for gun homicide.

NZ guns must be safer.

It's only sensible to license potentially dangerous machinery, and the users of that machinery, and to limit access to only those qualified and trained.

Looks like the people with guns in NZ are more dangerous when they are the police. They are licensed to kill. Qualified and trained police in NZ that use guns to kill people with.
NZ police licensed to kill

It's okay though, they are licensed and trained.

That article mentions that there have been 39 people killed by NZ police since 1990, and of those, 30 were armed.

(and not to mention that there have been 10,168 police fatal shootings in the USA since 2014, for comparison).

Also, the police in England and Wales (used as a comparison in the article) do not normally carry firearms, and so the article is cherry-picking its data set somewhat:

The Vast Majority of U.K. Police Don't Carry Guns. Here's Why

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

I see, so it's the guns that have a people problem?

Bullets want to fly free, but people just keep getting in the way and get them all bent out of shape.

I have owned this .22lr pistol for a long time, over 20 years. I have shot possibly 1000 rounds through it.
In all that time, it has never once went off or fired a round without me pulling the trigger.

Once you do enough research, and fully comprehend how a firearm functions, you may learn that a gun is an inanimate object, not capable of thought or action by itself. In order for it to do anything other than just lay there, you have to pick it up. When someone is shot, or multiple people are shot, it's not because of a gun, it's because of a person who pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the person who got shot. It's basic physics. Check into it.

The

bit I put at the end was to indicate that it was sarcastic.

... and only an average of 50 rounds/year?

this one doesn't get much range time. My Ruger is the favourite, followed by the TX22. But seeing you argue how awful guns are, then going to great lengths to prove NZ also has guns is comical. Are the guns in NZ safer? Better behaved? Perhaps the ammo sold there is the non aggressive kind. Either way, your arguments circle back on themselves, and really don't make much sense.

Compare the statistics for gun homicide in the respective countries.

In 2017, the USA had 12.25 gun deaths per 100,000 population. In 2017, New Zealand had 0.74 gun deaths per 100.000 population.

The year before, New Zealand had a total of 9 gun deaths. That same year, the USA had 38,658 gun deaths.

However, after law changes subsequent to the Christchurch mass shooting, New Zealand's gun death rate has been virtually non-existent.

NZ guns must be safer than US guns.

Perhaps rather than your crusade to tell everyone in a nation you don't live what to believe about guns, you should be working on importing some of these peaceful guns to the US. Think of all the lives you could save by bringing such peace to such a violent place. You have opend my eyes on this one.

The point is that there are far fewer guns in New Zealand, not that the guns themselves are somehow safer.

Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths.

It's fairly simple to understand.

a reply to: chr0naut

Really helps when you also take time to realize that NZ has roughly 10-15k police, as to where the US has roughly 700k active duty police officers.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

I see, so it's the guns that have a people problem?

Bullets want to fly free, but people just keep getting in the way and get them all bent out of shape.

I have owned this .22lr pistol for a long time, over 20 years. I have shot possibly 1000 rounds through it.
In all that time, it has never once went off or fired a round without me pulling the trigger.

Once you do enough research, and fully comprehend how a firearm functions, you may learn that a gun is an inanimate object, not capable of thought or action by itself. In order for it to do anything other than just lay there, you have to pick it up. When someone is shot, or multiple people are shot, it's not because of a gun, it's because of a person who pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the person who got shot. It's basic physics. Check into it.

The

bit I put at the end was to indicate that it was sarcastic.

... and only an average of 50 rounds/year?

this one doesn't get much range time. My Ruger is the favourite, followed by the TX22. But seeing you argue how awful guns are, then going to great lengths to prove NZ also has guns is comical. Are the guns in NZ safer? Better behaved? Perhaps the ammo sold there is the non aggressive kind. Either way, your arguments circle back on themselves, and really don't make much sense.

Compare the statistics for gun homicide in the respective countries.

In 2017, the USA had 12.25 gun deaths per 100,000 population. In 2017, New Zealand had 0.74 gun deaths per 100.000 population.

The year before, New Zealand had a total of 9 gun deaths. That same year, the USA had 38,658 gun deaths.

However, after law changes subsequent to the Christchurch mass shooting, New Zealand's gun death rate has been virtually non-existent.

NZ guns must be safer than US guns.

Perhaps rather than your crusade to tell everyone in a nation you don't live what to believe about guns, you should be working on importing some of these peaceful guns to the US. Think of all the lives you could save by bringing such peace to such a violent place. You have opend my eyes on this one.

The point is that there are far fewer guns in New Zealand, not that the guns themselves are somehow safer.

Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths.

It's fairly simple to understand.

That’s not what the data says.
America has 500 to 1000 times the number of weapons that most countries have. Estimates are close to 500,000,000.
Yet per 100k population we’re only at 32nd. That 32nd place includes suicides too so when you take them out it’s not even a question that the number of guns means zilch when comparing it to gun crime.
New Zealand is unarmed by comparison yet they hold the 8th place for the deadliest mass shooting in world history. Ironic.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: chr0naut

Really helps when you also take time to realize that NZ has roughly 10-15k police, as to where the US has roughly 700k active duty police officers.

So, England and Wales has 70 times the number of police officers, but it has 10 times the population?

What is it, a police state?

originally posted by: Vermilion

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

I see, so it's the guns that have a people problem?

Bullets want to fly free, but people just keep getting in the way and get them all bent out of shape.

I have owned this .22lr pistol for a long time, over 20 years. I have shot possibly 1000 rounds through it.
In all that time, it has never once went off or fired a round without me pulling the trigger.

Once you do enough research, and fully comprehend how a firearm functions, you may learn that a gun is an inanimate object, not capable of thought or action by itself. In order for it to do anything other than just lay there, you have to pick it up. When someone is shot, or multiple people are shot, it's not because of a gun, it's because of a person who pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at the person who got shot. It's basic physics. Check into it.

The

bit I put at the end was to indicate that it was sarcastic.

... and only an average of 50 rounds/year?

this one doesn't get much range time. My Ruger is the favourite, followed by the TX22. But seeing you argue how awful guns are, then going to great lengths to prove NZ also has guns is comical. Are the guns in NZ safer? Better behaved? Perhaps the ammo sold there is the non aggressive kind. Either way, your arguments circle back on themselves, and really don't make much sense.

Compare the statistics for gun homicide in the respective countries.

In 2017, the USA had 12.25 gun deaths per 100,000 population. In 2017, New Zealand had 0.74 gun deaths per 100.000 population.

The year before, New Zealand had a total of 9 gun deaths. That same year, the USA had 38,658 gun deaths.

However, after law changes subsequent to the Christchurch mass shooting, New Zealand's gun death rate has been virtually non-existent.

NZ guns must be safer than US guns.

Perhaps rather than your crusade to tell everyone in a nation you don't live what to believe about guns, you should be working on importing some of these peaceful guns to the US. Think of all the lives you could save by bringing such peace to such a violent place. You have opend my eyes on this one.

The point is that there are far fewer guns in New Zealand, not that the guns themselves are somehow safer.

Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths.

It's fairly simple to understand.

That’s not what the data says.
America has 500 to 1000 times the number of weapons that most countries have. Estimates are close to 500,000,000.
Yet per 100k population we’re only at 32nd. That 32nd place includes suicides too so when you take them out it’s not even a question that the number of guns means zilch when comparing it to gun crime.
New Zealand is unarmed by comparison yet they hold the 8th place for the deadliest mass shooting in world history. Ironic.

Why would you remove suicides from gun death figures? Aren't suicides by firearm a major portion of total gun deaths? In discussions about gun control and safety, you have to include all types of gun deaths, even accidents, suicides and 'good-guy gun defender' shootings.

Reducing the number of available guns will reduce the number of gun deaths.

Reducing the number of available guns will reduce the number of gun suicides.

Reducing the number of available guns will reduce the number of gun accidents.

Reducing the number of available guns will reduce the number of gun related crimes.

And the US comes in 6th place for the deadliest mass shooting in world history, ahead of NZ. Additionally, after that mass shooting, New Zealand changed its laws to prevent further mass shootings.