"A working model of your mind"

allenginsberg.org...

I have linked you there to a transcript posted on Allen Ginsburgh's .org site. It relates to a meeting of two American poets from two generations; Ezra Pound who wrote poetry between the wars and Allen Ginsburgh who was a beat poet and the poet of the American hippies.

Both are dead now and we are left with their words. The title of this thread is borrowed from Ginsburgh and what he said during this meeting. The problem with Allen is did all this take place in reality or was it hyped by his inebriated creative mind into a fictional conversation of what he wanted Pound to say and not actually what Pound said? Who knows? It is a great trasncript though, very thought provoking and creative. I do appreciate Allen. "Howl" is a very important poem.

The fact that Pound did spend an afternoon with Allen (Allen is Jewish and presented Ezra with many Jewish poets and songwriters and their works during this meeting) testifies that his former anti-Semitism had been somewhat purged from his soul. He makes an apology here,

It may have been at this point that he said, as recorded above, that his worst mistake had been “the stupid suburban prejudice anti-Semitism” and I responded, “Ah, that’s lovely to hear you say that…” and later “as it says in I Ching, ‘No Harm'”. Sometime in this conversation he’d concluded, “I found out after seventy years I was not a lunatic but a moron”

Pound is perhaps the greatest poet to ever write in the English language. If you read "The Cantos" it is pretty clear that none of the other poets could write like Pound did, not even TS Eliot. No wonder "The Cantos" could not meet with his expectations. What he had undertaken there was like one man trying to write the whole of the Old Testament.

He was trying to write " The Odyssey" for our age. Homer's "Odyssey" was not written by one man. How could one man ever achieve that? It is not possible. It was written over a long period and I expect Homer was the one who gathered it all together from the songs and rhymes into one cohesive epic poem. He was like Shakespeare. I don't believe one man wrote all those plays. Shakespeare gathered them all together and made them prseentable as a cohesive literary canon. He would have written a lot of the content to improve it and shape it, but Christopher Marlowe proves that the templates were around before Shakespeare's appearance on the literary stage of history. Christopher Marlowe is a raw individual talent. I see that. He is one man. Shakespeare is not one personality. There is a main personality and author, but it is an editorial genius at work more than a raw poet and playright writing new individual works.

"The Cantos" are the most beautiful and elegant poetry you can find in the English language. He is more adept than Wordsworth. He makes Dylan Thomas look like rather an amateur. I love Dylan Thomas too, but Pound is the master. The proof is in the quality of their art. Any fair mind will see this if they are not prejudiced.

Ezra Pound found himself on the wrong side of history. WW2 was the big showdown between the classical world and the new world. The old world had to go. I am not sure that this new world is better? Perhaps its saving grace is that it is much more egalitarian? Eliot and Pound would have looked down on me and never given me a chance as a working class person. They would have kept me in my place with few opportunities. The Jews are a bit better, but they do tend to hog all the good things for themselves, like media celebrity and network generated billionaires. I don't stand a chance in their world. They will keep me a gentile mendicant it seems now? Is that right? It seems so from my experience to date.

Is Rothschild doing any better? He was, but now it seems they are sending us back to the Victorian era. They will not be allowed to do that. If they neglect us that much we must fight them or we will lose everything we gained. I am not messing around.This is real. My words are barbed with real life developments. If you have not seen that already you soon will.

They put Ezra in a cage when they took him prisoner. Then they made him stay in a Mental Health Unit for twelve years. It was because he had fascist sympathies. He was on the side of the classical world of yore that had been defeated. The Sybil was indeed kept in "The Bell Jar",

‘Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: Σίβυλλα τί θέλεις; respondebat illa: άποθανεîν θέλω.’ For Ezra Pound il miglior fabbro.

That translates as,

I saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a cage, and when the boys said to her: “Sibyl, what do you want?” she answered: “I want to die.”

It is the opening epigraph to TS Eliot's great poem "The Waste Land".

The battle happened. The old world lost. The new world happened. However, it seems they have grown neglectful and are becoming as mean as the old world. If they keep letting us fall like this they will become the old world that we will fight and conquer. Believe it.

West, I am telling you: Change your tune or die. You will not be allowed to ruin all that we have achieved. Rothschild, your economy and attitudes disgust me right now. No wonder you are taking a battering. Don't worry, I am not making you my enemy. I do have much criticism of you though and I am gonna bark at your heels. If you kick me for it I will bring my friends next time. There are billlions of these little muts from the Dog Kingdom. It was not I that chewed all your fine leather in the court. It was your own greedy monsters who flock around you like a brood of vampyres.

This is personally for you, Jacob Rothschild. Read this parable. It will help you,

www.buddhanet.net...

love from "Dog Silver".

a reply to: Avengelist

ERROR CORRECTION:

Sorry, I had another BURGH on my mind.

It is BERG Allen Ginsberg.

Now I just remembered there is only a four hour window to edit. I had forgotten that. I have to do a lot of post-editing. I write in a very fast way. I have to write very fast to keep rhythm. I can't let thinking about spelling slow me down. That makes me do my own kind of shorthand sometimes. Then after I have to go through and edit. It can take a few goes to correct everything as I do everything manually so I keep remembering. There is no auto anything, no spelling correction except my own hard work looking up. It really helps to keep improving our writing skills if we are not lazy.

I am not perfect, but it doesn't stop me from keeping on trying. Christ tugs me like a good little dog. I must always bow to his greater intellect and soul, obviously. Sometimes it is a sado masochistic relationship. He had Himself been on the masochist side of the arrangement. I'll be His bitch anytime. Hope you don't mind my humour there, Lord?

a reply to: Avengelist

My curiosity is very much peeked.
Is it coincidence that you posted this a mere 13 minutes after I posted a quote from the opening of Howl? See Hold On

If I understand correctly, you majored in American Lit? That's how you can put Ginsberg, Pound, and Eliot in the same thread?

The only Lit. class I ever took was C.S. Lewis. I am very much at a disadvantage here.

The dream that I mention at the bottom of linked to post, seems very much framed by your Dear Britain and the West thread.
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I dreamed that I had a girlfriend and she and I were starting a job together in Health Care. While we were waiting to fill out final employment papers, a general call was announced for all available personnel to help clean up the site of a massacre.

It was mostly cleaned up when we got there, but they were out of bags for body parts, so I gave my shirt to wrap a rib and a lung. Then someone was hosing blood off a lawn.

The local church or synagogue was going to hold a service, but I wasn't wearing a shirt. A lady offered to lend me one, but she insisted that I wear an undershirt between my body and the shirt. My girlfriend then held up a shirt which she had no doubt stolen. I chose to wear the stolen shirt.

During the service, a man was reading a scripture. He was stumbling on pronouncing a name. I thought "I know that", and thought "...Shalal Hash Baz". The man then pronounced "Shalal Hash Baz" then looked up and smiled at me.
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I've been investigating words, written and spoken, in dreams. For written words, I can actually read three words in a row, but then can't remember the words after waking. Spoken words, I can remember three after waking.

My hypothesis is that dreams are silent, and any dialog is imagined, based upon a sort of backstory that comes with the dream.