U.S. is outspending Russia on Ukraine war

Reports of how much the U.S. has spent vary widely, to the tune of tens of billions. We do know that as of last winter, congress had "approved" over $113 billion. Congress has approved more than $113 billion of aid and military assistance to support the Ukrainian government and allied nations. So, we are spending about 70% of Ukraine's GDP, in U.S. dollars! Ukraine's GDP forecast for 2023 is around $160 billion.

But it's OK, it's money well spent! The famed Kiel Institute has a Ukrainian Aid Tracker, which tells us that the money is going to good causes, such as "spending for preemptive natural disaster funds, research on military or nuclear purposes, the prevention of terrorism and cybercrime, national infrastructure investments, large-scale purchases of military goods intended to remain in the US...or funds devoted to host Ukrainian refugees in the US." Money well spent? Keep in mind how badly the U.S. infrastructure needs major repairs!

Meanwhile, Russia is reported to be spending around $70 billion per year.
Russia war spending

2nd source

3rd source


Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and nutjob Mark Milley explains why "war is not inevitable":

You have to wonder how much is "coming back" to certain entities for other "projects".

a reply to: ColeYounger

OK, so Russia is spending about 70 B$ per year. Meanwhile, the US has spent about 77 B$ over the 17 month period from Jan. 2022 through May 2023:

www.cfr.org...

That works out to about 54 B$ per year. So we are underspending them by about 30% per year in absolute dollar-equivalents.

On the other hand, the US GDP in 2022 was about 25.46 Trillion$, according to the World Bank:

data.worldbank.org...

So, the amount we are spending on the Ukraine war is about 0.2% of our GDP, leaving 99.8% for everything else.

From the same source, the GDP of Russia in 2022 was about 2.24 Trillion$ (less than 10% of the US GDP). So they are spending about 3% of their GDP on the war, or nearly 15 times as much on a per-GDP basis.

Meanwhile, the Infrastructure Investment Act, signed into law at the end of 2021 is spending about 100 B$ per year for 10 years on the infrastructure repair that you care so much about. The CHIPs act that was signed into law in August of 2022 makes available another 280 B$ to revitalize and onshore computer chip manufacturing in the US. That means that the implied argument that we somehow have to choose between the Ukraine war and taking care of our country is bogus. We are easily wealthy enough to do both.

So, if you want Putin to win this war because Trump wants Putin to win, and you support Trump, you should honestly say so.

Or if you're an isolationist and don't think the US should be interested in anything outside our own boundaries, you should honestly say so.

But don't hide behind the fiction that we can't afford it.

a reply to: 1947boomer

Did I mention Trump at any point in my OP?

a reply to: 1947boomer
You post citing the CFR ?
What a joke .
You were joking , yes ?

sorry I can't back the following up with links right now,
but from what I've been reading for the last year and a half,
of all the money that the US earmarks for the Ukr,
80% of that money remains in the US --
it goes to US defense contractors and the Pentagon,
to "pay" for the moth-balled equipment that we have been sending to the Ukr thus far.

20% of the money DOES actually go to the Ukr.
As I understand now,
with the overall collapse of their economy,
the day to day operation of their government is paid for courtesy of US tax payers.
And of course, don't forget 10% for the big guy!

There is zero accountability of equipment and money that enters the Ukr...
every step in the chain ostensibly taking their 5% along the way,
either cash directly into pocket,
or equipment "disappeared" for sale onto the black market of international arms sales.

Discussions I've followed have spent a lot of time analyzing the difference
between the US system and the Russian system of Arms Procurement.

The US is Capitalist and Profit-centric.
The last real industry that the US has is weapons sales.
But profit-centrism encourages price inflation.
What's the difference between a $5000 hammer sold to the Pentagon,
and a $10 hammer everywhere else in the world?
(A: $4990 profit for the MIC hammer manufacturers).

At the dissolution of the USSR, much of the manufacturing and resource-extraction industries (oil for example)
became the pet cash-cows of the newly created Russian Oligarch class.
From what I've been reading the last year,
the military industry of Russia has largely remained state-owned.
Russia is no longer Communist,
but their defense manufacturing sector remains nationalized
(read: not profit driven).

Thus, the strange not-a-war we are seeing in Ukr
is a trial-by-fire of which works better:
nationalized weapons manufacture, vs
the much vaunted innovation of the greed-based capitalist system.

I haven't heard recent numbers,
but at one point Russia was firing 60,000 artillery rounds a day, vs
the Ukr could at most fire 20,000 rounds a day.
The Ukr has since pissed through nearly the entire stockpiles of artillery rounds
from every western country that the US could coerce into giving up their rounds.
But fear not!
The US recently announced that they are ramping up production,
and in another 2 years, they will be able to produce 30,000 rounds per month.
(which is still not 60,000 rounds a day).

The US has spent decades investing in fragile high-tech but extremely profitable (to the MIC) toys.
Russia largely played the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) card,
and invested in heavy metal and WWI style artillery
-- not flashy, not high-tech... but cheap and lethal.

The war (technology) is evolving rapidly,
so anything said 3 months ago becomes obsoleted,
as to weapons systems and tactics.

The biggest change from nearly all previous wars
(Azerbayjan vs Armenia aside)
is the utility of drones.
Everyone was talking about when would the US give Ukr some F-16's?
Meanwhile,
both airforces and navies are about to be obsoleted.
Why spend a billion $ on a fighter-plane or surface-ship,
when a drone costing merely thousands of dollars can autonomously hole said asset?

Time and technological development will tell.

Bottom line:
there is no way to realistically compare the $ figures that the US spends or gives to Ukr,
with what Russia is bringing to the field.
Time will tell which side has played their hand more effectively.

Who cares? It's only taxpayer money. We don't have the right to know what congress does with it. We should be ashamed for even hinting at it. One congresswoman suggested that if you want to know how the Ukraine aid is being spent, then you must be a Putin sympathizer.
We musn't audit the Biden administration’s military assistance to Ukraine!

Whoops! We made an error. It's OK, it was only $6 billion.


Although he always claims he's fighting corruption, Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been involved in scandals, and it's common knowledge that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.

Even some honest Ukranian officials say the money should be accounted for! But the democrats won't have it!


In Ukraine, many of the same groups lobbying for greater international support against Russia’s invasion are also speaking out about the need to make sure that money gets to its intended recipients. “Huge money always comes with corruption,” said Vita Dumanska, leader of the Chesno movement, a Ukrainian anti-corruption group. “We can’t keep silent on this.”

a reply to: ColeYounger

According to this the funding agreed by Congress is $113 billion but the amount delivered to Ukraine is , as of last month , $17 billion.

The total amount of funding under the first two bills
for FY 2022 amounted to $53.8 billion, under the
following two bills for FY 2023 – $59.7 billion, in
total for both FY 2022 and FY 2023 – $113.5 billion.

The Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act is
formulated in such a way that it provides essentially
unrestricted possibilities for providing military
resources to Ukraine, subject only to discretion of the
U.S. President.

The $113.5 billion figure, or figures close to it ($110,
$111, $112 billion) have often been cited as the total
amount of security assistance to Ukraine.However, such
statements are incorrect. Why?

First, the $113.5 billion figure includes funding for
operations that are not direct assistance to Ukraine.
For example, deployment of new U.S. forces to Europe,
replenishment of U.S. military stocks, refurbishment
of a new building for the U.S. embassy in Kyiv, and
provision of food aid to poor countries.
centerforsecuritypolicy.org...

twitter.com...

The author of the paper , Andrei Illarionov , is Putin's former chief economic adviser who last night was designated as a foreign agent by the Kremlin.

I'll try to clarify my motive for this thread.

This is what I'm seeing:
We know congress approved $113 billion. That's not in dispute. What's it for? "Aid and assistance".

Depending on what source you reference, you'll find widely ranging figures on how much the U.S. is actually spending. ATS members are linking sources here in this thread. Again, the figures vary. It reminds me of all the "data" on the Covid vaccine. "It's 75% effective." "It's 82% effective" "It's 90% effective."
If you questioned the narrative, you were a bad person. Yesterday, in this very thread, an ATS member accused me of being a Trumper for questioning the Ukraine aid. They also said my OP was dishonest.

With Ukraine, the figures vary, much like the Covid "data" varied. I'm seeing we've spent $20 billion, or $40 billion, or $80 billion. Some reports will use terms like "real dollars" or "absolute-dollar equivalents".

How much are "we" willing to spend? I guess there's no limit. General Milley says we'll help Ukraine "for as long as it takes". Biden agrees. We will not waver.

I'm seeing the left using the exact same tactics they used during the Covid debacle. If you so much as suggest that there should be some accountability with billions of taxpayer dollars, then you're a Putin ally. You're a disinformation spreading, anti-democracy, conspiracy theory-believing Trumper.

a reply to: ColeYounger

The problem is after 2014 it was always going to happen , if not now then in 2 years , 5 years or whenever but Russia have been becoming more militaristic over the last decade or so with Satellite killer technology in development and Hypersonic missiles ready to go , their invasion of Ukraine after Annexing Crimea was only a matter of time.

The question is do we acquiesce to Russia's expansion or do we stand against it , acquiescence would just ensure they move on to Moldova and at a time of their choosing face off against NATO countries , we have no choice but to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.

Russia's economy is starting to bear the brunt of the loss of its workforce and sanctions that have been incurred , as the Russian population start to suffer with inflation and high interest rates more pressure is on the Kremlin to solve their problem.

a reply to: ColeYounger

we buy 1000 of the exact same model aircraft,
wether it works or not, even after 50 x-plane aircraft,
we DO NOT use the best parts from each one in our jets
highly over priced and made whether the army wants them or not,

while russia makes changes/upgrades to nearly every one,
and builds HEAVY DUTY, WITH SIMPLICITY in mind

just imagine if russia spent $850 BILLION PER YEAR?
war with china will be a slaughter... OUR SLAUGHTER

chairman xi, can swipe a pen, and instantly......
use a SMALL CITY of 5 million people to build a
military production city from scratch..... IN 10 DAYS...
building s-500 anti-aircraft missiles, SWARMS of su-57 jets,
and millions of hypersonic tzircon missiles, and submarines....

I GIVE US A MONTH.... war will be no contest... WE LOST!

and in that months time.....
our politicians are STILL SQUABBLING,,,
which state gets contracts?

and then there are the reports like this:
Organ trafficking, paedophile networks - The hell of children abducted by Ukraine's 'White Angels'

I know we are drowning in propaganda, but these reports just keep coming. The behavior described is consistent with the Epstein-fanclub that currently seems to be running all the Western countries.

Then we've got Elensky running around to western countries begging supplies with his sales pitch: "I'll get Ukraine's men killed, so that western (European & American) men don't have to." Sure this is a fine marketing spiel, but it reveals the underlying inhumanity of the leader of a Country actively coercing the death and destruction of his nation's people.

The same Elensky has shut down all opposition media, political opponents, and cancelled elections: a Jewish person who is criminalizing how Christians may or may not organize their religious institutions. The linked article is entirely consistent with the observed immorality.

Be proud of what your tax-dollars are supporting.

This next is not Ukraine related, but the behavior described is.



This is Shawn Ryan interviewing Michael Herrera regarding a UFO encounter by a squad of US marines in Indonesia. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Michael Herrera and the other interviewees in this series of interviews have given depositions before US Congress.

SPOILER: the UFO is reversed engineered technology being used by WHOM? running a private military for human trafficking.

When you start connecting all the dots, and observing the irrational behavior of "our elites"... then you realize that the observed craziness is entirely rational, extremely profitable, yet positively abhorant and inhuman. These are the folks who are happy to piss away billions in taxpayer dollars in an entirely engineered conflict. May Hell make more room just for them.