Documentation of The Holocaust

a reply to: randomuser

Thx for starting a 2nd thread, as I wanted to reply to the original as well.

Regarding Rudolph Höss's testimony, don't know what kind of records he had to show, but I do know that the memoirs and diaries of WWII German generals are considered quite suspect, in particular Halder's and Guderian's. I would trust even less that of a person who ran a death camp or slave labor camp.

Also, not all Jews and other minorities even made it to concentration camps. There was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, and various massacres of civilians in Poland and the Soviet Union, which no doubt included many Jews as well.

Moreover, I'd imagine there were pre-war and post-war censuses in the various European countries, and that a head count of civilians killed could be inferred from the difference between pre-war and post-war demographics.

Frankly I don't understand why anyone is so interested in challenging the numbers at this point in time. Give or take a million or two, does it matter? Horrific things were done to various groups in WWII, as has been done throughout history.
Heck, why not challenge the number of people that the Mongols killed instead if you're so concerned about specific numbers of deaths in history?

It's telling that the account for the OP of the original thread was created the day the thread was.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: randomuser

I agree the Nazis were hell bent on the destruction of everyone and everything which challenged their authority. However, these examples are nothing more than anecdotes by people who were persecuted but somehow survived this mass genocide to tell their stories. If they're there to tell the story then chances are the holocaust wasn't as effective as the claims.

Before tarnishing me with THAT brush, i have zero sympathy nor do i support the persecution of anyone for their religious beliefs or race. The fascist coonts can rot in hell as far as i'm concerned.

I see an analogous connection between the following two photos:

I fully realize that you are referring to the mask and the sieg heiling, but both groups were forced by their societal authorities to wear clothes too. The horror! What fascism! I'll bet that all the people in the top pic also have id's/driver's licenses on them.

During a respiratory disease pandemic which was still being studied and not fully understood, it seemed a prudent public health measure to make people wear masks, particularly in settings like the above. To equate it to unquestioned loyalty to a totalitarian regime is ridiculous.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

Sure, it’s not like governments restricted any freedoms during the pandemic, which people blindly followed. Except of course the freedoms to work, travel, or leave yer own bloody home. You might not remember the mask nazis or the fact you couldn’t work or travel without papers. They even tried to force vaccines on people. Nothing fascist about that?

Hell, you couldn’t even go see a dying relative in their last days.

Remind me how these prudent measures implemented by governments helped the healthcare systems. They’ve never been better eh?

The part where this thread is not closed for review is why the conspiracy remains.

Earthlings...

a reply to: Grenade

You're right, we should have abolished all governments and let anarchy and social darwinism deal with a pandemic.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: Turquosie

I just don't understand how people in America can compare what happened during covid to the freakin' HOLOCAUST.

Talk about priviliged and out of touch with reality!

It just blows my mind.

Something something education system in America falling short.

This blows my mind as well... ignorance is the first word that comes to mind.

a reply to: strongfp

Where did I say that?

I just want to know what books they were burning and why?

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Grenade

You're right, we should have abolished all governments and let anarchy and social darwinism deal with a pandemic.

Did you miss the part where virtually all of the dystopian measures that got people jailed, fired, house arrest, sicker, dead, etc. were ass-backwards wrong and useless, if not more harmful for non-Covid reasons ?
This is really kind of an important issue in assessing what happened.
To just give masks a free pass as a fabulous world-saving miracle …… terribly foolish.
We long ago established that 99.99 % of them had no value, helped in no way.
But probably caused huge physical, psychological, social negatives, especially for children.
Vaccines that weren’t vaccines, and continually redefined as having less and less useful outcomes.
Ventilators which appear to have killed more folks than the Covid itself.
Yes, be sure to continue to applaud for all of this …. Brilliant !!

originally posted by: BeNotAfraid
The part where this thread is not closed for review is why the conspiracy remains.

Earthlings...

Ruh-Roh Commandant Karen has arrived. Or is it Covid Karen ?

a reply to: stevieray

Cut! No, the lines are, "You sound vaccinated. Drink your corn and trust the plan."
Seriously, the best part of any conversation on conspiracy theories is having at least three sides to the argument.

Party on.

a reply to: stevieray

There's a saying that I love to reiterate to myself once in a while to keep me in check. Everything in hind sight is 20 / 20.

Let's look at the objective facts of the covid pandemic. Was and is there a virus that reached pandemic status within the last three or so years? Yes.
Was that virus a new strain of an already existing family of viruses, yes,.
Did the majority of the population agree that this virus existed, and posed a public health problem / emergency? Yes, almost everyone at the beginning didn't need a doctor or government to tell them that.

At the beginning of it all we knew there was a virus spreading like wildfire, and we looked to people who we thought would know best to deal with it. There was a problem, and we as humans constantly are looking for solutions to problems.

At the beginning and during the whole thing there wasn't set in stone protocols, or facts that we knew, there was alot of what might, or what if, or should we try this, or Let's do this to get this outcome. It doesn't matter what we think we know now, or what we do now, we didn't know back then. The majority of people agreed that basic public health measures should become blanket measures.

National socialist Germany had a bunch of problems, problems that we know had existed leading up to the masses falling for the religious culture of nazism, it was a myriad of issues that stemmed from Germanys over the top militarism, and obsession with keeping a Mercantilist economic strategy which blew up in their face in ww1 snd leading them into economic, social, and cultural decay and destruction, a man made problem that everyone lived through, but couldn't come to accept that objective fact and just collectively gave up in a mass psychosis like state looking for anyone to fix their issues.

So there was a problem in Germany, and their solution?
Listen to a bunch of hooligans and political demagogues, who pointed out what deemed was the problem - but wasn't - and conveniently had the absolute solution to that problem.

The government didn't tell me or you, or anyone else that a virus was ripping through our communities, and they barely had a solid solution to fixing that problem.

Stop comparing yourself and a virus to those that were deemed "the problem" before and during ww2. The problem was a virus, and we tried to fix it. The inconvenience was the people who don't like being told what to do didn't accept government solutions that the majority of society hired those people to handle one day.

Now, continue to complain about how it was all handled after the fact, I do it all the time, but I can't realistically try and magically go back in time and tell those people trying to fix the problem what to do or stop idiot politicians from making false promises and statements about something they clearly didn't understand.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: MrInquisitive

Sure, it’s not like governments restricted any freedoms during the pandemic, which people blindly followed. Except of course the freedoms to work, travel, or leave yer own bloody home. You might not remember the mask nazis or the fact you couldn’t work or travel without papers. They even tried to force vaccines on people. Nothing fascist about that?

Hell, you couldn’t even go see a dying relative in their last days.

Remind me how these prudent measures implemented by governments helped the healthcare systems. They’ve never been better eh?

How about we agree that the Holocaust and slavery are the worst government programs ever, and Covid has no competitors for the third slot.
The more that comes to light, the smaller the gap for Covid.
Yeah, things like millions of people dying alone, While family were locked outside. Millions of careers and livelihoods and businesses wrecked. Untold damage to millions of children, many different ways. Millions killed by ventilators alone. Millions of falsified deaths to get that govt cheese and $. The medical and scientific worlds turned into a 4th Reich.
But let’s instead describe it all as a greater effort than WW2.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: stevieray

There's a saying that I love to reiterate to myself once in a while to keep me in check. Everything in hind sight is 20 / 20.

Let's look at the objective facts of the covid pandemic. Was and is there a virus that reached pandemic status within the last three or so years? Yes.
Was that virus a new strain of an already existing family of viruses, yes,.
Did the majority of the population agree that this virus existed, and posed a public health problem / emergency? Yes, almost everyone at the beginning didn't need a doctor or government to tell them that.

At the beginning of it all we knew there was a virus spreading like wildfire, and we looked to people who we thought would know best to deal with it. There was a problem, and we as humans constantly are looking for solutions to problems.

At the beginning and during the whole thing there wasn't set in stone protocols, or facts that we knew, there was alot of what might, or what if, or should we try this, or Let's do this to get this outcome. It doesn't matter what we think we know now, or what we do now, we didn't know back then. The majority of people agreed that basic public health measures should become blanket measures.

National socialist Germany had a bunch of problems, problems that we know had existed leading up to the masses falling for the religious culture of nazism, it was a myriad of issues that stemmed from Germanys over the top militarism, and obsession with keeping a Mercantilist economic strategy which blew up in their face in ww1 snd leading them into economic, social, and cultural decay and destruction, a man made problem that everyone lived through, but couldn't come to accept that objective fact and just collectively gave up in a mass psychosis like state looking for anyone to fix their issues.

So there was a problem in Germany, and their solution?
Listen to a bunch of hooligans and political demagogues, who pointed out what deemed was the problem - but wasn't - and conveniently had the absolute solution to that problem.

The government didn't tell me or you, or anyone else that a virus was ripping through our communities, and they barely had a solid solution to fixing that problem.

Stop comparing yourself and a virus to those that were deemed "the problem" before and during ww2. The problem was a virus, and we tried to fix it. The inconvenience was the people who don't like being told what to do didn't accept government solutions that the majority of society hired those people to handle one day.

Now, continue to complain about how it was all handled after the fact, I do it all the time, but I can't realistically try and magically go back in time and tell those people trying to fix the problem what to do or stop idiot politicians from making false promises and statements about something they clearly didn't understand.

You could’ve just said “my story and my victims are better than yours”. The hindsight excuse, while redefining 90 years ago in your terms. Great.
We’re comparing outcomes, not every little detail of the prequels.
Covid created a whole lot of authoritarian, more like dictatorial, conditions around the globe. Which still stand in many ways, many places.
Amazing that you call it all “simply needed”.
I promise that you can find Hitler saying this in many a speech.

a reply to: stevieray

I simply see the covid response as a huge flop for the most part, and just adds more evidence to Ayn Rands philosophy towards over the top altruism, and how we definitely aren't ready for a pandemic at all.

a reply to: stevieray

My post went right over your head...

I can assume you subscribe to the idea that problems only began once government started to deal with the pandemic and not the fact that a virus was ripping through the human population regardless if they got involved or not.

Hence my first post in this thread.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: stevieray

My post went right over your head...

I can assume you subscribe to the idea that problems only began once government started to deal with the pandemic and not the fact that a virus was ripping through the human population regardless if they got involved or not.

Hence my first post in this thread.

No, I distinguish between the uncertainty / unknown, and the incredibly illegal / unconstitutional nonsense that popped up everywhere. The latter shouldn’t have happened, despite the former.
There isn’t a disclaimer in the constitution that says “all of this cancelled in the event of a scary sickness”.
We see daily now, references to the next pandemic.
Since we let it all happen the first time, should we just run it again ?
I promise you it will be produced and directed to be just as scary.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: stevieray

I simply see the covid response as a huge flop for the most part, and just adds more evidence to Ayn Rands philosophy towards over the top altruism, and how we definitely aren't ready for a pandemic at all.

This makes sense.

a reply to: stevieray

The pandemic didn't just happen in the US... there's people outside of the US who don't care about your constitution, there's people who don't care about constitutional rights during a major public health emergency that live in the US.

And yes, there will be another pandemic, we live synonymously alongside with viruses, it will happen again. And we do need to learn from this huge flop.

This thread is now closed pending a staff review.