US Hegemony and its Perils

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Good night.

Best sleep it off.

Unless, you might have a response that might make coherent sense?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Vroomfondel

OK.

Of course, the Nimitz CSG is not in the least bit intimidating. To anyone.

I see.

Why do you have to take a simple statement and turn it into something ridiculous?

The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

I said it won't intimidate China the way it does smaller countries. Show me where I said it won't intimidate anyone...

I will never understand why people choose to make such petty arguments.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

So they aren't intimidated, so what?

What are they going to do about it, piss and moan perhaps write a tersely written statement on the government website.

All the US has said is it will defend Taiwan and ultimately Japan,South Korea, Guam, and the Philippines. Just because China doesn't like it, doesn't mean the US should alter its thoughts on the subject. After all how long have we had a communist country 90 miles off our coast?

All of that Asia/Pacific doctrine form the US has been established for quite a while, has it not?

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

No one said anything about the US pledging to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Guam and the Philippines. This thread is about US military hegemony (read) dominance. It has nothing to do with our pledge to protect our allies. As stated in the OP, China doesn't have to do anything wrong to find itself at war with the US. The US won't stand for any challenge to its dominance on the world stage. We send carrier groups around to intimidate other countries and ultimately exploit the smaller ones, supposedly over human rights violations. Yet we never seem to get it done with China regardless of how bad the human rights violations are. Its no secret China isn't the best when it comes to human rights. So why haven't we stopped them? Those millions of people suffering daily don't matter? Or is it something else, like maybe China won't be as easy to push around...

We have been the big kid on the block for a long time. But like many big kids on the block, we stopped being a defender of the innocent and started being a bully when it suited us. Like the OP said, the US is not a country that enjoys minding its own business. When the opposition is smaller, weaker, less technologically advanced, we have no problem pushing them around. But this isn't some dinky third world country we are talking about. This one can push back. So, what are we going to do besides spend $6-$8 million dollars a day to run a carrier group around in circles?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

So they aren't intimidated, so what?

What are they going to do about it, piss and moan perhaps write a tersely written statement on the government website.

All the US has said is it will defend Taiwan and ultimately Japan,South Korea, Guam, and the Philippines. Just because China doesn't like it, doesn't mean the US should alter its thoughts on the subject. After all how long have we had a communist country 90 miles off our coast?

All of that Asia/Pacific doctrine form the US has been established for quite a while, has it not?

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

No one said anything about the US pledging to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Guam and the Philippines. This thread is about US military hegemony (read) dominance. It has nothing to do with our pledge to protect our allies. As stated in the OP, China doesn't have to do anything wrong to find itself at war with the US. The US won't stand for any challenge to its dominance on the world stage. We send carrier groups around to intimidate other countries and ultimately exploit the smaller ones, supposedly over human rights violations. Yet we never seem to get it done with China regardless of how bad the human rights violations are. Its no secret China isn't the best when it comes to human rights. So why haven't we stopped them? Those millions of people suffering daily don't matter? Or is it something else, like maybe China won't be as easy to push around...

We have been the big kid on the block for a long time. But like many big kids on the block, we stopped being a defender of the innocent and started being a bully when it suited us. Like the OP said, the US is not a country that enjoys minding its own business. When the opposition is smaller, weaker, less technologically advanced, we have no problem pushing them around. But this isn't some dinky third world country we are talking about. This one can push back. So, what are we going to do besides spend $6-$8 million dollars a day to run a carrier group around in circles?

Respectfully don't hate the player, hate the game.

So instead of bitching, moaning, and agreeing with Beijing what should the #1 Superpower in the world do to make Vroomfondel, Xi, and Putin happy? Respectfully you don't think China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea would do the same or worse if the situation was reversed?

One could also rationalize the opposite of your hypothesis, that perhaps after America got pulled into WWI and WWII somebody somewhere said screw that sheit, perhaps if we get involved soon enough perhaps we can avoid huge worldwide wars and have a bunch of little semi-manageable regional ones.

Altruistic, perhaps but again American doesn't want to rule the world they just want to make a huge profit off of it, capitalism baby. It's why we have so many doctors and lawyers per capita cause they get paid beaucoup bucks. Thats the game of which I speak of. Ain't nothing wrong with it either,sure Ive seen a capitalist screw people out of their money over and over but it's been a while since they were killing people just because of who they were and where they lived. see Chechens and the Uhgyers, or I suppose you believe Beijing and Moscow on that as well.

Respectfully I know it sounds sarcastic as hell, but seriously what would make you sing God Bless America with genuine and authentic emotion?

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

So they aren't intimidated, so what?

What are they going to do about it, piss and moan perhaps write a tersely written statement on the government website.

All the US has said is it will defend Taiwan and ultimately Japan,South Korea, Guam, and the Philippines. Just because China doesn't like it, doesn't mean the US should alter its thoughts on the subject. After all how long have we had a communist country 90 miles off our coast?

All of that Asia/Pacific doctrine form the US has been established for quite a while, has it not?

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

No one said anything about the US pledging to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Guam and the Philippines. This thread is about US military hegemony (read) dominance. It has nothing to do with our pledge to protect our allies. As stated in the OP, China doesn't have to do anything wrong to find itself at war with the US. The US won't stand for any challenge to its dominance on the world stage. We send carrier groups around to intimidate other countries and ultimately exploit the smaller ones, supposedly over human rights violations. Yet we never seem to get it done with China regardless of how bad the human rights violations are. Its no secret China isn't the best when it comes to human rights. So why haven't we stopped them? Those millions of people suffering daily don't matter? Or is it something else, like maybe China won't be as easy to push around...

We have been the big kid on the block for a long time. But like many big kids on the block, we stopped being a defender of the innocent and started being a bully when it suited us. Like the OP said, the US is not a country that enjoys minding its own business. When the opposition is smaller, weaker, less technologically advanced, we have no problem pushing them around. But this isn't some dinky third world country we are talking about. This one can push back. So, what are we going to do besides spend $6-$8 million dollars a day to run a carrier group around in circles?

Respectfully don't hate the player, hate the game.

So instead of bitching, moaning, and agreeing with Beijing what should the #1 Superpower in the world do to make Vroomfondel, Xi, and Putin happy? Respectfully you don't think China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea would do the same or worse if the situation was reversed?

One could also rationalize the opposite of your hypothesis, that perhaps after America got pulled into WWI and WWII somebody somewhere said screw that sheit, perhaps if we get involved soon enough perhaps we can avoid huge worldwide wars and have a bunch of little semi-manageable regional ones.

Altruistic, perhaps but again American doesn't want to rule the world they just want to make a huge profit off of it, capitalism baby. It's why we have so many doctors and lawyers per capita cause they get paid beaucoup bucks. Thats the game of which I speak of. Ain't nothing wrong with it either,sure Ive seen a capitalist screw people out of their money over and over but it's been a while since they were killing people just because of who they were and where they lived. see Chechens and the Uhgyers, or I suppose you believe Beijing and Moscow on that as well.

Respectfully I know it sounds sarcastic as hell, but seriously what would make you sing God Bless America with genuine and authentic emotion?

You have attributed some very anti-American sentiment to my post that I do not have nor did I express.

I am not aligned with China and Putin and, respectfully, screw you for implying I am.

At no point was I bitching moaning or agreeing with Beijing. FFS, all I said was that trying to intimidate China the way we intimidate smaller weaker nations isn't going to work well. What part of that makes me a communist sympathizer???

If you could see past your ego and try to understand what I wrote and why maybe things would go a little better for you. You start your response with, "Respectfully don't hate the player, hate the game." Then you hate on me for three full paragraphs. Different rules for you? You special?

My first post in this thread:

The US typically uses human rights violations as its basis for some sort of action, military or otherwise. China, well known for what westerners consider human rights violations, could easily debase the US by being very public in some human rights violations, daring the US to intervene. We won't, for the same reasons we never have before - China isn't some little third world country we can manipulate to our advantage.

My second post in this thread:

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

My third post in this thread:

I said it won't intimidate China the way it does smaller countries. Show me where I said it won't intimidate anyone...

My fourth post in this thread:

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

Show me where this happened:

bitching, moaning, and agreeing with Beijing what should the #1 Superpower in the world do to make Vroomfondel, Xi, and Putin happy?

That was one majorly bombastic leap you made there.

I love my country, served my time in the military, and spent a portion of my day properly folding a torn flag for delivery to my local VFW and replacing it with a brand new one that I ensured was made in the USA - as all our flags should be. If you want to accuse someone of hating on America or siding with China I suggest finding someone else.

Respectfully I know it sounds sarcastic as hell, but seriously what would make you sing God Bless America with genuine and authentic emotion?

Finding out you went somewhere else.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

So they aren't intimidated, so what?

What are they going to do about it, piss and moan perhaps write a tersely written statement on the government website.

All the US has said is it will defend Taiwan and ultimately Japan,South Korea, Guam, and the Philippines. Just because China doesn't like it, doesn't mean the US should alter its thoughts on the subject. After all how long have we had a communist country 90 miles off our coast?

All of that Asia/Pacific doctrine form the US has been established for quite a while, has it not?

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

No one said anything about the US pledging to defend Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Guam and the Philippines. This thread is about US military hegemony (read) dominance. It has nothing to do with our pledge to protect our allies. As stated in the OP, China doesn't have to do anything wrong to find itself at war with the US. The US won't stand for any challenge to its dominance on the world stage. We send carrier groups around to intimidate other countries and ultimately exploit the smaller ones, supposedly over human rights violations. Yet we never seem to get it done with China regardless of how bad the human rights violations are. Its no secret China isn't the best when it comes to human rights. So why haven't we stopped them? Those millions of people suffering daily don't matter? Or is it something else, like maybe China won't be as easy to push around...

We have been the big kid on the block for a long time. But like many big kids on the block, we stopped being a defender of the innocent and started being a bully when it suited us. Like the OP said, the US is not a country that enjoys minding its own business. When the opposition is smaller, weaker, less technologically advanced, we have no problem pushing them around. But this isn't some dinky third world country we are talking about. This one can push back. So, what are we going to do besides spend $6-$8 million dollars a day to run a carrier group around in circles?

Respectfully don't hate the player, hate the game.

So instead of bitching, moaning, and agreeing with Beijing what should the #1 Superpower in the world do to make Vroomfondel, Xi, and Putin happy? Respectfully you don't think China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea would do the same or worse if the situation was reversed?

One could also rationalize the opposite of your hypothesis, that perhaps after America got pulled into WWI and WWII somebody somewhere said screw that sheit, perhaps if we get involved soon enough perhaps we can avoid huge worldwide wars and have a bunch of little semi-manageable regional ones.

Altruistic, perhaps but again American doesn't want to rule the world they just want to make a huge profit off of it, capitalism baby. It's why we have so many doctors and lawyers per capita cause they get paid beaucoup bucks. Thats the game of which I speak of. Ain't nothing wrong with it either,sure Ive seen a capitalist screw people out of their money over and over but it's been a while since they were killing people just because of who they were and where they lived. see Chechens and the Uhgyers, or I suppose you believe Beijing and Moscow on that as well.

Respectfully I know it sounds sarcastic as hell, but seriously what would make you sing God Bless America with genuine and authentic emotion?

You have attributed some very anti-American sentiment to my post that I do not have nor did I express.

I am not aligned with China and Putin and, respectfully, screw you for implying I am.

At no point was I bitching moaning or agreeing with Beijing. FFS, all I said was that trying to intimidate China the way we intimidate smaller weaker nations isn't going to work well. What part of that makes me a communist sympathizer???

If you could see past your ego and try to understand what I wrote and why maybe things would go a little better for you. You start your response with, "Respectfully don't hate the player, hate the game." Then you hate on me for three full paragraphs. Different rules for you? You special?

My first post in this thread:

The US typically uses human rights violations as its basis for some sort of action, military or otherwise. China, well known for what westerners consider human rights violations, could easily debase the US by being very public in some human rights violations, daring the US to intervene. We won't, for the same reasons we never have before - China isn't some little third world country we can manipulate to our advantage.

My second post in this thread:

Oh, we can go there and run practice drills all day long. The thing is, it won't intimidate China the way it does other smaller countries with vastly differing military budgets than ours.

My third post in this thread:

I said it won't intimidate China the way it does smaller countries. Show me where I said it won't intimidate anyone...

My fourth post in this thread:

So what are WE going to do about it? The same thing we always do - parade our ships around and rattle our sabers. All I said was that works with smaller countries with just a fraction of our military budget but it won't work that way with China.

Show me where this happened:

bitching, moaning, and agreeing with Beijing what should the #1 Superpower in the world do to make Vroomfondel, Xi, and Putin happy?

That was one majorly bombastic leap you made there.

I love my country, served my time in the military, and spent a portion of my day properly folding a torn flag for delivery to my local VFW and replacing it with a brand new one that I ensured was made in the USA - as all our flags should be. If you want to accuse someone of hating on America or siding with China I suggest finding someone else.

Respectfully I know it sounds sarcastic as hell, but seriously what would make you sing God Bless America with genuine and authentic emotion?

Finding out you went somewhere else.

Thank you for your service, that alone makes it easier to understand your obvious frustrations.

Sure I went over the top, apologies. But honestly, when I read the BS on the China government website, it made my eyes roll so far back in my head I can't fathom any American reading it saying, suggesting, or inferring it's correct in any way shape or form. Im, not some patriotic redneck BTW, no offense to those who are, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Respectfully and I do mean it, the question remains so what should America do? Quite a few people get pissy when China sails up and down China straight proclaiming it all to be under China's rule.

a reply to: putnam6

Apology accepted and thank you. I apologize for my sharp tongue as well.

From my perspective it wasn't a question of whether China was right or not, they weren't, but just that we aren't going to intimidate them as easily as we would a much smaller country with a small fraction of our military and economic power. This isn't li'l kimmy playing soldier in his big boy pants. We could sanction China every way possible and it wouldn't change things much. They can be self sufficient if need be. Of course that would mean a portion of their population would die to attrition, but, in the end that would just end up solving many of their problems as a nation. And frankly, they wouldn't care about the loss of life as much as enjoy the benefits thereof.

In my gut I don't feel as though intimidation will work on China. If we go that route sooner or later they will call the bluff and then we will be forced to make a very tough decision. At least for now I think we would be best staying with a propaganda war with China/NK. Let xi and kimmy act like fools on the world stage. We should stand silently resolute and wait for the right moment. With any luck, that moment will never come.