Death is not the end

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Deetermined

Acceptance is not conformity. Acceptance is recognizing that every belief that molds this system is valid. Rather than competing for control over which belief should reign dominate in a never ending tug of war, simply let go of the rope. Let go of the need to overpower or eliminate any belief you are resistant to. Renounce that unwanted belief by removing your attention from it. When you do this, it will dissipate from your experience.

That sounds like some philosophical way of saying, as long as I believe everything to be true, it is....but it's not. Fooling oneself may lead to the cliche of "ignorance is bliss", but eventually, ignorance will hurt you more than help you.

a reply to: glend

If God didn't already "know Thyself", then He wouldn't be the all knowing God that He already is. He doesn't need our perspective on anything. We need His perspective to see how lost and imperfect we are, so that we finally see why we need Him to save us from that perpetual state of imperfectness.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Quintilian

That's true if consciousness arises from the brain but that theory is debatable.

Wat is your definition of consciousness?

a reply to: Quintilian

My simple definition is that consciousness is awareness. It transcends thought so imo it transcends the brain.

a reply to: LeeMich83

*** Personal view, not trying to be preachy. ***

While I would like to believe there's some meta-energy to our existence, I don't see life or consciousness as anything too mystifying.

For me, there is no divine self and not even consciousness lives on after the blood stops pumping.

What does live on is analogous to a stamp. A stamp that fades over time. Your impact lives on.

Like that snowflake shooter will live on after death more than most. As a psycho tranny or martyr of anger. She is "reincarnated" every time her act has an effect thereafter. Reincarnated into every thread that she inspired. Her cruelty will make sure her "karma" lives on in the pain of victim's families. Even as it is sublimated or transmuted into metaphorical alchemy gold, or some political form of mica.

Does the psycho suffer for its actions? In my mind, no. And the deed can't cross over or reincarnate her as a meal worm. Unfortunately, it remains locked onto material cause and effect until it completely dilutes itself.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Quintilian

My simple definition is that consciousness is awareness. It transcends thought so imo it transcends the brain.

So an iphone then? It is aware of its location, what time it is and so on (ask Siri, she'll tell you).

The computer in your car that's aware of a huge array of things, and then makes all sorts of decisions at speeds humans can't really fathom, to allow you to drive safely and effectively?

I don't find this a very good definition, it seems vague and a bit wishy washy at best. Strangely, even academics struggle with this.

a reply to: Quintilian

So are you claiming that you don't have awareness? If you do believe that you have awareness, are you comparing your awareness to that of an iphone or the computer in your car? Are you claiming that your human awareness is the same as a programmed computer? I'm not arguing that point (in your case). I'm simply looking for clarification.

a reply to: [post=26942700]LeeMich83[/po

I read somewhere that every atom in our body has probably cycled through 6 or 7 different stars in the history of the universe. That means we were all once part of a star shining in someone else's sky. In billions of years, the sun will swallow the earth when it swells to a red giant, and eventually that material will be ejected back into space in shells of gas. So according to science, we started as atoms in space, and we will eventually be that again. If it is in fact true, that makes our brief life even more amazing.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Quintilian

So are you claiming that you don't have awareness?

Not at all. Nowhere am I claiming this.

If you do believe that you have awareness, are you comparing your awareness to that of an iphone or the computer in your car? Are you claiming that your human awareness is the same as a programmed computer? I'm not arguing that point (in your case). I'm simply looking for clarification.

I'm claiming that the term "awareness" is a very poor description, or proxy, for consciousness. There is something far more intricate going on than simply vague ideas of "awareness", that in reality we can attribute also to an iphone among many other things.

awareness
noun
knowledge or perception of a situation or fact.

There is something being overlooked here, but it's difficult to get out of the forest to see the trees.

At any rate if you hold the idea that consciousness is simply "awareness" then all I can do is disagree with your definition and it's probably not worth debate. We''ll simply be talking (or writing lol) past each other.

originally posted by: Thrumbo
Death is terrifying.

As one gets older it is not so terrifying anymore. I find the images of a never-ending heaven almost as terrifying as a never-ending hell.

originally posted by: Quintilian

At any rate if you hold the idea that consciousness is simply "awareness" then all I can do is disagree with your definition and it's probably not worth debate. We''ll simply be talking (or writing lol) past each other.

I think you are talking more about the inner voice. Our brains actually fake us out as to what awareness we think we have, which is far less than what we believe.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Thrumbo
Death is terrifying.

As one gets older it is not so terrifying anymore. I find the images of a never-ending heaven almost as terrifying as a never-ending hell.

I agree, with the exception that I find the prospect of eternal existence in either heaven or hell (I don't really believe in either though) more concerning than death being the end.

The year 1900 probably holds no great fear for anyone here. That's because we didn't exist then. In the same way in the future, when we no longer exist (as anything more than a collection of recycled elements/atoms), there is nothing to be concerned about.

a reply to: Quintilian
You can disagree with my definition but I'm not wrong. You asked for my definition and I told you, in simple terms, my own idea. Awareness is a generalization, obviously. I could delve further into a more involved explanation and say that consciousness is the collapse of the wave function but again, that's just another theory. Essentially, one can only know they are experiencing consciousness through their own perception or awareness of it. My initial point is that awareness transcends thought. Thoughts are a process of the brain. You can be aware of your own thoughts but if thoughts cease, awareness continues on.

a reply to: Deetermined

Truth is subjective. Many truths are believable but that doesn't mean you have to believe in all truths. The only truth that matters to you is your own.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Quintilian
You can disagree with my definition but I'm not wrong. You asked for my definition and I told you, in simple terms, my own idea. Awareness is a generalization, obviously. I could delve further into a more involved explanation and say that consciousness is the collapse of the wave function but again, that's just another theory. Essentially, one can only know they are experiencing consciousness through their own perception or awareness of it. My initial point is that awareness transcends thought. Thoughts are a process of the brain. You can be aware of your own thoughts but if thoughts cease, awareness continues on.

Fair enough.

I'm not claiming that you are wrong, only that I don't accept it (I'm open to the possibility of being persuaded that I'm wrong to do this). Although I just feel that's not a very satisfactory description and misses something very important. It's also possible to be aware of all sorts of things that don't arise from "thoughts" while being an automaton (or an iphone).

I'm also not denigrating your belief (or at least not trying to). I have seen people debate and argue endlessly over this topic, without realising that they are both talking about something entirely different. When some clarification and
agreed definitions to begin with could have avoided the lot of it.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
The only truth that matters to you is your own.

And even then, they are most likely not true...

a reply to: Quintilian

You claimed that when the brain stops functioning then it isn't possible to have any experience. I disagree.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Quintilian

You claimed that when the brain stops functioning then it isn't possible to have any experience. I disagree.

Yes, I know. There doesn't seem to be any such experiences available for someone who has died (really died) as far as we know. In fact simple anaesthesia (if properly administered) seems to further indicate the role of the brain in experience. As does damage to the brain, which alters "experience" and can also diminish it, commensurate with extent of injury.

Though you did offer a little more than simply that anyway. The assumption that "awareness" necessitates and equates equates to "consciousness", as you seem to be implying, is clearly not true to begin with IMO. As the function of an iphone and many other things illustrates.

a reply to: Deetermined

"If God didn't already "know Thyself", then He wouldn't be the all knowing God that He already is."

God is all knowing in the sense that He is aware of past, present, and future. So everything He puts into action is known before the action completes.

"He doesn't need our perspective on anything."

There is no "our" only the vine. The son being the witness of the Father.

"we finally see why we need Him to save us from that perpetual state of imperfectness."

A perfect God isn't going to create imperfect beings. You in your true state already exist in a state of perfection being made in the image of God (perfection). The realm of dualities was created so we can experience that perfection through our senses. Again to know thyself.

originally posted by: socialmediaclown
a reply to: Deetermined

Truth is subjective. Many truths are believable but that doesn't mean you have to believe in all truths.

I agree with this to large extent. The "truths" we arrive at are generally accepted by agreement or consensus, rather than any genuine knowledge they are true. In any ultimate sense (or perhaps even in a mundane one) to think that we can really discern truth with our human limitations probably amounts to hubris.

The only truth that matters to you is your own.

These are the ones we should question the most IMO. Within ourselves at least. We can argue them and even believe them, but that should be tentative and open to the possibility of being wrong. Easy to say of course, but is the most difficult thing to do.