A spiritualist view on Social Media

So I’m almost 31. Which means I’ve been through the # storms of broke teens to struggling 20’s, to and from uncertainty and assurance so many times my head has spun and has had to recalibrate itself.

That being said, I’ve increasingly became a spiritual person in the past few years. I know we’re in a material world, with material wants. I feel like *most* of us know this. Like we know it and yet still, we continue to want and to need things that aren’t true wants or necessities.

Our debt to credit ratios are astronomical. We’re given more money than we’ll ever earn so that we will always owe and be forced to work for things we don’t need. Social media is geared to increase aggression and disagreement because nothing increases activity online quite like an argument. And and if you’re online arguing or constantly checking feeds, you’re feeding their advertisement income which is how these feeds thrive.

There’s no ethical standards when it comes to gains. We’re just subjected to it, unable to stop ourselves as we engage with other angry people who we don’t know, who we argue with for the sake of doing so.

So we constantly feel broke, argumentative, confused, alone, and yet feel as if that’s how it’s supposed to be because that’s the way things are.

But it’s NOT how things are.

People don’t honestly go around in the real world, arguing with everyone who has a different opinion. We listen, we accept it’s their view and we move on. So this shoving our opinions down strangers throats online via twitter or FB or whatever is *false*. It’s a misinterpretation of how we as people truly behave. But I think this misinterpretation is really altering perception and it’s scary.

People always seem to be on edge. Traffic stops result in weapons drawn. Racism, sexism, mysogny, whatever - it’s screamed at the rooftops of roofs that aren’t exactly real yet people feel the consequences of it internally.

What do you guys think? This # is a tactic of control? They want us to be so split up and divided because we’re easier to control? I mean do you really give a crap how someone dresses or what they believe they are as to whether they identify with a unicorn or a snail? Does it effect you, what other people choose to do with their lives? Because if it doesn’t, why are you wasting your energy?

Social media is cancer.

a reply to: ConMi27

You've nailed it. Keep searching for truth. You are on the right path, my friend. ⭐⭐⭐

a reply to: ConMi27

Before the internet and social media, there were newspapers and magazines that ran letters columns. It was taken for granted in the journalism and publishing trades (I worked in them, so I know) that the people who patronized these columns –– that is to say, the people who habitually wrote ‘letters to the editor’ -- were a different breed from the average reader. It seemed, from the letters themselves, that a large proportion of their writers were cranks, obsessives, grievance-peddlers, hatemongers, scammers and lunatics. And this was fine with the press, because the letters were 'good copy' and helped boost the circulation of the papers and magazines they were printed in.

When talk radio became popular, it was quickly taken over by callers-in of the same kind. Again, their ranting and raving helped boost listenership figures, so DJs and station managers were happy to encourage them. Howard Stern, to give a famous example, made his vast fortune largely by leading the crazy, the hateful, the obsessed and the deranged to say ever more outrageous things on air while his listeners gasped, groaned and giggled away –– much to his profit.

Now we have the internet, and social media with it. But human nature hasn't changed, and the people who dominate the pages of social media are still -- you guessed it -- the same (mercifully rare) people who used to deluge editors and DJs with their nonsense back in the old days. On Twitter and elsewhere, they are now among the main producers of social-media 'content'. Ordinary folk are too busy working, raising families, hanging out with real friends in the real world, etc, etc, to be posting all day on social media.

So please don't be fooled. The world hasn't gotten worse. People haven't lost their spirituality or their moral values all of a sudden. It's just that the damaged and the deplorable now have a global audience for their ugly utterances, and they're smearing the rest of us by association. They have piled on to social media so enthusiastically, they have fooled us into thinking that real people in the real world, too, are like them. But as your own experience will surely have revealed to you, we most certainly are not. The majority of us are hard-working, well-intentioned and perfectly capable of love.

Social media isn't a cancer, though it can be very good at spreading social cancers about. That can't be helped; spreading information and ideas is what social media is designed to do. If you stop focusing on the negative aspects of this, the positive ones immediately come clear: the power to start and build social movements, the power to influence and change minds, the power it gives people to help each other in a million different ways. Don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

a reply to: ConMi27

I mean do you really give a crap how someone dresses or what they believe they are as to whether they identify with a unicorn or a snail?

Hmmm.... you have so minimized and belittled the totality of the issues involved, and the genuine concerns of so many (including medical professionals and the victims of this ideology/activism), that I'm now wondering if you're really this ignorant or if you're just gaslighting.

Either way, perhaps take a good long look at yourself before presuming to tell others how they're being fooled and manipulated by social media.....

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ConMi27

I mean do you really give a crap how someone dresses or what they believe they are as to whether they identify with a unicorn or a snail?

Hmmm.... you have so minimized and belittled the totality of the issues involved, and the genuine concerns of so many (including medical professionals and the victims of this ideology/activism), that I'm now wondering if you're really this ignorant or if you're just gaslighting.

Either way, perhaps take a good long look at yourself before presuming to tell others how they're being fooled and manipulated by social media.....

Hmmm - seems you are doing exactly that which you accuse of ConMi27

originally posted by: VigilantAlways

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ConMi27

I mean do you really give a crap how someone dresses or what they believe they are as to whether they identify with a unicorn or a snail?

Hmmm.... you have so minimized and belittled the totality of the issues involved, and the genuine concerns of so many (including medical professionals and the victims of this ideology/activism), that I'm now wondering if you're really this ignorant or if you're just gaslighting.

Either way, perhaps take a good long look at yourself before presuming to tell others how they're being fooled and manipulated by social media.....

a reply to: VigilantAlways

Hmmm - seems you are doing exactly that which you accuse of ConMi27.

Interesting takeaway there. I just called out the misrepresentation and misinfo being used to shame and coerce certain people, and you consider that the same as the one misrepresenting and spreading misinfo.

Really??? Okay...

I honestly know that there is a spiritual journey in life when one breaks away from most of modern day conveniences.
Here is a link that I will cycle on soon here in Japan. Although it really for the most part a money making thing for whomever I choice just to go along with the ocean breeze and camp at the Temples and Shrines if possible.

wikitravel.org...

I have a cycling blog if you want to follow me. Just PM me.

originally posted by: ConMi27
...
That being said, I’ve increasingly became a spiritual person in the past few years.

Being a spiritualist (as mentioned in the thread title), or into spiritualism, does not make one a spiritual person though. Even though the terms may sound similar, they don't mean the same thing. As defined by the dictionary, spiritualism is the belief or the religious movement based on the belief that departed spirits hold intercourse with mortal humans by means of physical phenomena, as by rapping, or during abnormal mental states, as in trances or the like, commonly manifested through a medium; it is the theory that mediumistic phenomena are caused by spirits of the dead.

Spiritualism is about four thousand years old, but it has staged a vigorous modern reappearance in the West. The American spiritualistic movement had its beginning in 1848 with the young Fox sisters of Hydeville, New York, who later moved to Rochester, New York, to continue with their mediumship there, attracting nation-wide attention. However, for about a hundred years before the start of the American phase of spiritualism, Germany and Switzerland had their spiritualists who developed or believed in psychic phenomena almost identical with those connected with the American movement. They had spirit vision, spirit writing, foreknowledge of coming events from the spirit realm, and daily direct communication with inhabitants of the spirit realm. From America the movement spread into England, the two most active spiritualists there being D. D. Home, a remarkable medium, and W. Stainton Moses, an Episcopal minister and an Oxford man. For years these two startled England. At seances Mr. Home used to pick up live coals from the fire by the handful and carry them around without being burned. He trained many of his pupils to do the same thing, and he himself was even known to wash his face in fiery flames unharmed. The phenomena of spiritualism became so notorious that they led to investigation, serious, scientific investigation. Many came away from these investigations convinced—clergymen, philosophers and other men of learning and of science. As to their conclusions regarding spiritualism The Encyclopedia Americana (volume 25, 1929 ed.) says:

“The conclusions of the higher intelligences who have expressed themselves as being convinced of the reality of Spiritualism may be summed up as follows: Through mediumship is proved the continuity of life beyond the grave; it is no longer a religious dogma but a living fact. Spiritual intelligences are as anxious to communicate with us as we with them, but the lower and grosser intelligence seem to be the nearest to us, and most likely to be heard from in communication, and they like to impersonate great individuals and personal deceased friends of those present. This is held to account for much of the ‘information’ that comes through, and is valueless. For many years the Banner of Light, published in Boston, was the leading organ of this cult. In common with other Spiritualist papers it has disappeared. They have apparently given way to Psychological publications and New Thought periodicals. While the great public includes a vast number who are virtually Spiritualists, they are less and less known by that name, but are affiliated with New Thought, Mental Science, Theosophy, Oriental cults, Psychical Research and other modern movements. Spiritualistic teaching is largely in accord with the writings in the Bible.”

In harmony with this last statement of the Americana, it is the claim of many spiritualists that this psychic religion is based on the Bible or that the Bible supports and agrees with spiritualism. Especially is this true of Catholic and Protestant clergymen who have become spiritualists. They claim that the Bible teaches survival after death or the immortality of the human soul, which is the teaching upon which spiritualism rests. For this reason it is also called Immortalism, and was first called so by a Protestant clergyman. In 1909 the New York World published an interview with this clergyman, namely, Bishop Samuel Fallows of the Reformed Episcopal church, Chicago, Illinois, in which he said: “There are great truths in Spiritualism. Many Spiritualistic phenomena we cannot understand, but we have to admit them. I have called the new science ‘Immortalism’ because it depends for its existence upon the immortality of the soul, in which we all believe, and the preservation of identity beyond the grave. Immortalism is simply Spiritualism with all the fraud and trickery eliminated. On account of these frauds Spiritualism has been shunned by many right thinking people, but immortalism will claim their most earnest attention.” Four years earlier he said: “As a Christian and a believer in the Bible, I must believe in communication between the two worlds—that in which we live and that to which our friends have gone. . . . I believe in apparitions, however, and think it possible that there are persons possessed of a certain mysterious psychic power which enables them to make of their spirits a channel, as it were, through which the earth-bound spirit can communicate with the friend from the other side.”—The Watch Tower, June 1, 1905; December 1, 1909.

Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of his translation of The New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: “I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God’s spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication, and experienced things that shook me to the depths of my soul. . . . My experiences are related in a book that has appeared in both German and English and bears the title, Communication with the Spirit-World: Its Laws and Its Purpose.” (Page 15, ¶ 2, 3) In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber’s translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover. In the Foreword of his aforementioned book ex-priest Greber says: “The most significant spiritualistic book is the Bible.” Under this impression Greber endeavors to make his New Testament translation read very spiritualistic.

Spiritualism claims that there are good spirits and bad spirits and that it does not want to have anything to do with the bad spirits but tries to communicate only with the good spirits. At 1 John 4:1-3 the Bible says: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” Greber’s translation of these verses reads: “My dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to learn whether they come from God. For many false spirits have emerged from the abyss and gone out into the world, and are speaking through human mediums. This is how you can find out whether a spirit comes from God: every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ appeared on earth as a man, comes from God. While every spirit who seeks to destroy belief in Jesus as our Lord incarnated does not come from God, but is sent by the adversary of Christ. You have been told that such spirits would come, and they are already appearing in the world.” Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation.

However, when the apostle John says, “Try the spirits,” or, “Test the spirits,” he does not mean for us to dabble in spiritualism and get in touch with the spirits by means of spirit mediums, ouija boards or planchettes or other spiritistic paraphernalia and try out which is a good spirit and which is a bad one. By “spirits” here John is referring, not to invisible spirit creatures, but to the purpose, the intent or the motivation of the prophesying or public declaration made by men respecting God and Christ. Hence An American Translation reads: “Do not believe every inspired utterance, but test the utterances to see whether they come from God, for many false prophets have come out into the world.” And the New World Translation reads: “Do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” To test these inspired utterances or inspired expressions of the prophets or mouthpieces of various religions to see whether they are inspired by God’s spirit or not, we do not have to go to spiritualist séances or mediums. Long ago Jehovah God inspired his prophet Isaiah to say: “Bind up the testimony, seal the teaching among my disciples. And when they say to you, ‘Consult the mediums and the wizards who chirp and mutter,’ should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? To the teaching and to the testimony! Surely for this word which they speak there is no dawn. They will . . . be thrust into thick darkness.” (Isa. 8:16, 19-22, RS) Obediently those who seek true, reliable information concerning the human dead and future events go to Jehovah’s teaching and testimony as found in the Bible.

But, someone will protest, the spiritualists themselves claim to go to the Bible also. Yes, but this is all as a bait, as a disguise, to calm the conscience and to entice one into spiritualism as something Biblical, Scriptural, having God’s approval and being thoroughly Christian. It follows the tactics of false apostles of Christ, of whom the true apostle Paul wrote: “Such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness.” (2 Cor. 11:13-15, NW) So the hidden aim is to get you to believe less and less in the Bible and to rely more and more on your experiences with observed phenomena of spiritualism, to get you to perverting the Bible and believing just the opposite of what it teaches, yes, to destroy your faith in the Bible. This is illustrated in the case of the prominent British spiritualist Arthur Findlay. In his book The Rock of Truth or Spiritualism The Coming World Religion (thirteenth impression, 1949) he says:

“All impartial students of the past can come to no other conclusion than that the belief in the inspiration of The Holy Bible, though it has given strength and help to millions, has nevertheless been one of the greatest hindrances to the progress of humanity. This being so, is it not strange that this book is still called ‘Holy’ and ‘The Word of God’ in any civilized place of worship? . . . How different indeed would much of the world have been had the Bible never been considered inspired, and how much happier Christendom will be when all come to look on it as they do other books, admiring its beauties, but ignoring its mistakes and falsities. In view of past mistakes, and the crimes and atrocities it has committed in the name of its founder, the Church today should be humble and penitent instead of arrogant and reactionary.”—Pages 120, 131.

In the index of this book we read these references under the heading “Bible”: “Advocates barbaric cruelties; evidence of divine inspiration lacking; not Word of God; now taken less seriously; of no historical value; other faiths just as efficacious; stories cannot be verified; stories preached as if true; study of, waste of time; stumbling block to Spiritualism; to be read as other books,” etc. We also read under the heading “Jehovah”: “Not the creator; ordered war”; and under the heading “Jesus”: “Many lived similar lives; no historical evidence that he lived; resurrection of, doubtful tradition; The Talmud, account of; virgin birth, death and resurrection copied from other saviour-gods; virgin birth thought of later,” etc. Page references accompany such topical entries.

The evidence is clear that the spirits with whom this leading spiritualist communicates are against the Bible and its Author Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ. Why so? Because the Bible and Jehovah and Jesus Christ are against those spirits; which Mr. Findlay admits, when he says the Bible is a “stumbling block to Spiritualism.” We do not have to dabble in spiritualism to find out whether those spirits with which this religion communicates are good or bad spirits. They are all bad spirits, for they are all acting out a lie, the way the “ruler of the demons,” Satan the Devil, did at his beginning in Eden. As admitted by Bishop Fallows, who coined the word “Immortalism” to take away the reproach upon mediumistic communication with spirits, spiritualism rests upon the teaching of the immortality of the human soul, hence of survival after death of the human body.

Only one writer of the Bible, the apostle Paul, mentions immortality, and his three mentions of it do not refer to the human soul at all, but refer to the resurrected Jesus Christ and to the resurrected faithful followers of Christ. The apostle Paul himself states that the human soul is the human creature himself, not some unseen, untouchable, spiritual something that resides inside the human body, in it but not of it, and able at the body’s death to depart and take up separate residence in the spirit realm. Paul quotes the inspired description of the creating of the first human soul, at Genesis 2:7, by saying: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” (1 Cor. 15:45, 53, 54, NW; 1 Tim. 6:14-16) The human soul is not immortal and therefore cannot survive the death of its body.

Yes, indeed, the Bible is a “stumbling block to Spiritualism,” for from its first book to its last it teaches that the human soul is mortal and dies, ceasing to exist. (Gen. 12:13; 17:14; 19:19, 20; 37:21 and Rev. 8:9; 12:11; 16:3, NW) The Bible teaching concerning the mortality of the human soul reaches its most pointed expression in Jehovah God’s own warning: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezek. 18:4, 20) This plain-spoken, unchanging teaching of all the Scriptures blasts the very foundation from under the spiritualist movement. It proves that the spiritualists do not communicate with the immortal souls of the human dead in a spirit world but do communicate with the demons, bad spirits, and that spiritualism is simply a deceptive misnaming of demonism. When spirits take on a false identity, pretending to be spirits of the human dead in order to support the lie that the dead are not dead, but their souls are immortal and have survived after death, as the spirit did who impersonated the prophet Samuel to King Saul by the spirit medium of Endor, then they are all bad. They are lying spirits, even if they do make some correct predictions of the future, for they are acting under a false identity, doubly deceitful. (1 Sam. 28:3-20) They are denying the need of the resurrection under God’s kingdom for the human dead to live again.

a reply to: ConMi27

So, I'm almost 50, and yes you are on the correct path. I must say, your phrasing and list of concerns is a clear result of psychological warfare. It is good that you recognize this, and it is good that you are being proactive about improving yourself. The world around you will also improve.

Keep trading ideas here. It is of mutual help, really, amongst the high caliber thinkers and the inevitable troll.

Oh, and cancer has treatments and cures. "Social media" is just communication. Choose your conversation.

As we say in my circles, Godspeed.
Welcome to Above Top Secret dot com.
#ExploreSpirit

I agree 100%, social media is a cancer.
Funny how the real world, at least in mine, is so different from what media tells me it is.
One of my closest friends is a liberal democrat. We actually have political discussions! And are still friends! (How can that be, right?)

I like talking to someone, face to face, or on the phone at least. I stay away from Social media for the most part. It's better that way.
And I sure don't believe anything the media says. It's bad for your health. LOL

Are you another Michigander?

a reply to: ConMi27

And just in case someone wanders into this thread that is actually interested in what true spirituality entails in contrast to spiritualism as explained in my previous comment:

In Search of Spirituality

IN HIS famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need.” (Matthew 5:3) You probably agree with that statement. People everywhere recognize the need for spirituality in their life and assume that once found, it will bring them happiness. What, though, is the meaning of the term “spirituality”?

One dictionary defines spirituality as “sensitivity or attachment to religious values” and “the quality or state of being spiritual.” Thus, such terms as “spirituality,” “being spiritual,” or “being spiritually-minded” are viewed as synonymous. To clarify the term further, think of this comparison: An individual who is skillful in commercial affairs is said to be business-minded. Similarly, someone who keenly values spiritual or religious interests is called spiritually-minded.

How, then, is true spirituality achieved? Though just about every religion claims to know the path to spirituality, the directions given are about as numerous as the religions themselves. A Protestant claims to be saved at a revival meeting. A Catholic seeks communion with God at Mass. A Buddhist pursues enlightenment through meditation. A Hindu strives for release from the cycle of rebirths through self-denial. Are all of these on the path to true spirituality? Are any?

For many, the answer to those questions is no. They hold that spirituality means to “believe without belonging,” that is, to believe in a god or a deity without belonging to a church. Others feel that spirituality refers, not to a religious experience, but to a desire for inner peace and for meaning in life. They assert that those seeking spirituality need not look to religion at all. Rather, they need only to look inwardly, to their innermost feelings. One writer says: “True spirituality is something that is found deep within oneself. It is your way of loving, accepting and relating to the world and people around you. It cannot be found in a church or by believing in a certain way.”

Clearly, people differ greatly in their ideas about spirituality. Thousands of books claim to show the way to a spiritual life, yet all too often readers are left feeling unfulfilled and confused. There is one book, however, that does contain reliable guidance on spiritual matters. It is the book that shows evidence of being inspired of God. (2 Timothy 3:16) Let us see what that book, the Bible, says about the meaning of spirituality and the value of it.

True Spirituality​—How Can You Find It?

“TO BE carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace,” wrote the apostle Paul. (Romans 8:6, King James Version) With those words, the apostle was pointing out that being a spiritual person is more than a matter of personal preference or inclination. Essentially, it is a matter of life and death. ...

...

“The Mind of Christ”

In addition to pointing out the importance and benefits of being spiritually-minded, the apostle Paul had much to say about what true spirituality is. To the Christians in the ancient city of Corinth, Paul explained the difference between a physical man, that is, a person who follows the impulses of the flesh, and a spiritual man, a person who cherishes spiritual things. Paul wrote: “A physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him.” On the other hand, Paul explained that the spiritual man is characterized by having “the mind of Christ.”​—1 Corinthians 2:14-16.

Having “the mind of Christ” basically means having “the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had.” (Romans 15:5; Philippians 2:5) In other words, a spiritual man is one who thinks as Jesus does and walks in His footsteps. (1 Peter 2:21; 4:1) The more a person’s mind resembles that of Christ, the deeper his spirituality is and the closer he is to gaining “life and peace.”​—Romans 13:14.

How to Get to Know “the Mind of Christ”

To have the mind of Christ, however, one must first know that mind. Therefore, the first step in developing spirituality is to get to know Jesus’ way of thinking. But how do you come to know the mind of someone who lived on earth 2,000 years ago? Well, how, for example, did you learn about the historical figures of your country? Likely by reading about them. Similarly, reading a written history of Jesus is an important way to get to know the mind of Christ.​—John 17:3.

In Jesus’ case, there are four vivid historical accounts​—the Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Reading these accounts carefully will help you to perceive Jesus’ way of thinking, his depth of feeling, and the motivation behind his actions. When you take time to reflect on what you read about Jesus, you build a picture in your mind of the kind of person he was. Even if you already consider yourself a follower of Christ, such reading and reflection will help you to “go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”​—2 Peter 3:18.

...

And that explains why the spiritualist (Arthur Findlay) quoted towards the end of my previous comment* is so against the Bible and discourages people from believing it is telling the truth about Jesus Christ and his way of thinking, his depth of feeling, and the motivation behind his actions (*: see in particular the bolded paragraph). Because the spirits (demons) he is in contact with do not want anyone to know the mind of Christ, let alone to have it. They do not want people to develop true spirituality and want to deceive them with their counterfeit version of spirituality, wanting them to take an interest (and dabble) in spiritualism and mysticism instead, thinking it makes them spiritual persons. Even though spiritualism is against the mind of Christ as the Bible clearly shows, so they twist it to pretend the Bible supports or condones spiritualism (see previous comment again for examples on how they do this).

More succinct articles (also more intended for people with very little knowledge of the Bible's true teachings, which often includes members of Christendom that have been taught twisted teachings that are claimed to be biblical but actually contradict or oppose the Bible's true teachings):

What Does It Mean to Be a Spiritual Person?
You Can Satisfy Your Spiritual Need (Awake!—2009)

a reply to: ConMi27

Interesting. Talk to a crazy person face to face, and we walk away. Text or post to an "unknown potentially crazy person" on Soc Media? We say "Hey! Hi!"

We never know for sure online...yet any info is just considered valid. It may not be.

a reply to: chiefsmom

Michigander here, Dearborn . Howdy....😎✌️

long religious diatribes do not work well on here historically and especially lately.
Like a TV show with too many adds. You skip over them if you can.

a reply to: charlyv

Yep, waste of good server space

a reply to: charlyv


Is it possible that now Jesus is speaking thru the www. cyberspace thru anointed members and their anointed leaders?

religionnews.com...

Prayer and meditation are for all practical purposes have become obsolete. Now we can just log on for our spiritual contact with a higher power; social media including ATS seem to be drifting more and more to the evangelical side.

Technical salvation if you will....

a reply to: olaru12

At least in church there are girls to ogle