what is evidence

ok so i noticed theres this mental illness floating around called bullying, why do people feel the need to do such a thing? they bully you to get you away from your beliefs, biases, hopes, dreams, thoughts, ideas, opinions, preferences, religion, politics, etc., and of course they definately bully you into not believing in the uap phenomenon, but why would one believe? for me ive paid attention to these 4 evidentiary points, there may be more but here they are

1. 1st hand witness testimony, this is both by credible observers and or multiple observers of the same event, such as police, military, pilots, etc. and events such as phoenix, ariel, westall, and redelsham, etc.

2. govt documents and or govt officials, over the decades documents have been uncovered to suggest the phenomenon is real and should be taken serious in which the govt has recently acknowledged such a thing and the amount of officials who would know some things over the years have expressed their beliefs of uap presence

3. sensors, radars, and satelites, these systems allow you to see real objects and track them to see what there data represents, such as speed, manuevers, heat, etc., not to exclude landing radiation readings and potential health effects on their surroundings

4. video, film, and photos captured by the public and by the govt and not just by us but around the world

this has helped me come to my personal belief that theres something to this uap thing, and if anyone asks wheres the evidence just use these points and cases to enlighten of the situation, all these people searching for the truth and asking there govt to come clean and do the right thing and on top of it all we have all these bullys nipping at our heals, what for? are you going to win a prize or something? i think people should try to help us, bring some knowledge, wisdom, expertize, facts, analysis, or twit your congress people or something, tell them to declassify the uap subject altogether

id sure like to see more best of type of evidence such as what are your top 5 uap related documents? top 5 video captures? top 5 govt officials statements? top 5 cases? etc. and see where everybodys at in their individual uap diclosure journey, im sure many are struggling and struggling badly but everyone will arrive at the truth one day im sure, so maybe down below you can share your top 5s, thanks for listening to my thoughts, opinions, biases, and ramblings

a reply to: saskwatch

I used to be a liberal, but I wanted to be accepted on ATS and get stars so I totally understand what you're saying.

this has helped me come to my personal belief that theres something to this uap thing, and if anyone asks wheres the evidence just use these points and cases to enlighten of the situation, all these people searching for the truth and asking there govt to come clean and do the right thing and on top of it all we have all these bullys nipping at our heals, what for? are you going to win a prize or something? i think people should try to help us, bring some knowledge, wisdom, expertize, facts, analysis, or twit your congress people or something, tell them to declassify the uap subject altogether

It's a war of ideas, it goes for all things. Don't ask me why some people eat sleep # and die for it in every waking moment of their time. It perplexes me, but at the same time, after you identify it, who does it and why, nothing they say means anything much at all.

If they're for something or against something all the time, they're not speaking from themselves anyway.

a reply to: saskwatch


The reality or not of UFO phenomena is really about humanity finding and knowing its true place in the Universe. It is remarkable similar to the old argument of "God is dead" where you could find yourself standing nakedly alone in the Universe if you ventured into that taboo territory. Even there, today, most folks can't face the facts. UFOs are the monsters under the bed for some folks and their governments. Everybody has an opinion and nobody seems to have actual proof. Thus, as I've said several times over the years on ATS, the UFOs are a self-created myth, created entirely by themselves and substantiated by governments that know the truth but find themselves powerless.

What will come to pass is that the ETs undisputedly will be given the role as our gods of science, our cultures will demand it, as they formerly had in times past. As for you, the public, believe what your cognitive dissonance will allow because it has no bearing on what is happening anyway as it is with the old "God is dead" argument.

What ?
No one is saying that UFOs/USOs/UAPs don't exist.
It's when folks try to bind it with the ET home phone idea .
Everything flying is a UFO until one identifies it .

"I used to want to believe"

a reply to: saskwatch

Evidence of events that we do not understand is one thing (and we have many of those), what we lack is evidence of what they are.

There are some good cases with multiple witnesses or physical evidences, like photos/videos (confirmed as not manipulated) or radar data, but, as far as I know, none of those evidences point to an origin or cause of that specific event.

Bullying is so awful - and it's why most people say nothing if they see something questionable.
Even photos are the subject of scrutiny and disbelief for years.
When I told my own father about the huge UFO I had seen, he just brushed it all off and laughed saying, "I don't believe in those things". Which is even worse than the bullying.
Everyone has a right to their own beliefs though.
Interestingly - right now on our Travel channel, they are showing a 2 hour special on 'Alien Abduction: Betty and Barney Hill'.
Barney Hill is saying how he thought 'it was a satellite' at first, very interesting.

a reply to: RonnieJersey

I agree. I remember writing a whole thread on an under-the-weather evening some months back about how sick and tired I am of the hostility towards UFO/high-strangeness witnesses and experiencers.
In recent years, the stigma seems to have died down significantly, but it is still there. It's especially bad in some scientific communities, which is unfortunate, because even a skeptical and doubtful researcher needs to approach witnesses and their experiences with an inquiring and compassionate attitude. Even if a researcher does not believe what the witness believes, a researcher can still learn something about the witness's alleged encounter and use it for further studies. You get more bees with honey.

Ben Hansen, a UFO investigator and former FBI agent, was on the Betty & Barney Hill documentary I mentioned above -
As he stated, we accept the testimony of people stating that (for example) they witnessed a murder.
Yet we ridicule those who come forward with their experiences with those from other civilizations.

a reply to: RonnieJersey

There's one difference: when testifying about a crime, people are supposed to be relatively familiar with the event, when testifying about an UFO sighting or an Alien abduction, people are talking about things they weren't familiar with.

But even in court witness testimony is 100% true, that can be seen when they are presented with some questions or when, sometimes, they admit to having lied some time after.

That's why physical evidence is better than only witnesses' statements.

a reply to: ArMaP

NOBODY here wants to fully contemplate the whole of the situation that we humans see with and beyond in the UFOs. That deeply disturbing, unconscious realization is that we are learning in an instant that we are a subspecies of life in the Universe. Not equal to and maybe with no equality to boot either. Such things are clearly beyond "reason" simply because most of us are taught by education and science (not too many years ago) that life was only here on our precious little blue dot.

That blinding feature of human thinking (officially called cognitive dissonance is why UFOs remain a myth (by their own doing) and why we are slowly being brought up to speed by our frightened governments. I hate say it, because it is indicative of the lack of reality, but anybody is a fool if they think that the US government does not know the whole of what we face.

a reply to: saskwatch

To venture is human. Ignorance is also an active behavior.
Let them go, wookie watcher.

The conversation is also evidence.
"How much evidence quantifies proof?", is my question.

a reply to: BeNotAfraid

Although the question was not directed to me, I think it's not a question of the amount of evidence but a question of the quality of the evidence.

That's why photos, videos or witnesses' accounts are evidence but not enough to get us closer to the true. It's evidence of the existence of the phenomena, not evidence of what they are or of their origin.

a reply to: ArMaP
You want "evidence?"
Let's back up 75 years.
In late summer of 1948 The US Airforce's top intelligence agency, Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) was "responsible for keeping track of all foreign aircraft and guided missiles," according Edward J. Ruppelt, captain, and later head of the infamous Blue Book. Ruppelt's book, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects was an important book on the early days of the phenomena. He tells us that the ATIC Was asked for a report from the top generals about what were the mysterious objects. They produced a paper entitled The Estimate of the Situation that concluded that the objects were not from earth. Supposedly, Gen. Twining the top Air Force General directed the report to be burned.

And that was the beginning of the official coverup of the UFO phenomena visiting our planet from other planets.

In most any court of law, evidence, good evidence, is enough for a proper outcome with a conviction. Actual proof is not necessary if the evidence is available and strong to support the charge regardless of what the deniers want to scream.

Governmental and scientific denials were never about finding evidence. It as always about denying evidence. Until the time gets late and they must start grooming the public for the acceptance of the inevitable.

originally posted by: Observer19
Ruppelt's book, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects was an important book on the early days of the phenomena. He tells us that the ATIC Was asked for a report from the top generals about what were the mysterious objects. They produced a paper entitled The Estimate of the Situation that concluded that the objects were not from earth. Supposedly, Gen. Twining the top Air Force General directed the report to be burned.

A conclusion on a report is not evidence, it's an opinion.

In most any court of law, evidence, good evidence, is enough for a proper outcome with a conviction. Actual proof is not necessary if the evidence is available and strong to support the charge regardless of what the deniers want to scream.

That's what I said above, the evidence we have is not strong, as we have evidence that the phenomena exists but we do not have any evidence pointing to an explanation of its origin.

What we need is physical evidence, not opinions.

Governmental and scientific denials were never about finding evidence.

Denials are obviously about denying, not finding the truth.

Until the time gets late and they must start grooming the public for the acceptance of the inevitable.

That's another problem with UFOlogy, too much wishful thinking.

Unless we start with basic data, analyse it without any bias and reach provable conclusions we are not getting anywhere.

It's true that most scientists ignore (or laugh about) UFOlogy, but that's mostly because of how things have been done in UFOlogy, with people ignoring real evidences and considering opinions and witnesses' reports as strong evidences, as long as it agrees with their preconceived ideas.

To me, the two biggest problems with UFOlogy are the blind believers and the blind deniers, with the first giving "ammunitions" to the second to keep ignoring UFOlogy and the real efforts of a few to try to find the truth, whatever it may be.

a reply to: ArMaP

You can't prove a negative no matter how you claim to be coldly logical about that point of view. It has no value.
I'll just close this by reminding you that cognative dissodance is a terrible thing to waste.

bullying could just be narrative control by government agencies. we really don't know how many agencies are involved, but i can bet its not just usa.

ufology also has tons of hoaxers, disinfo agents and scam artists as well. its why being objective is very important.

that aside i have been big fan of ufo/alien stuff since i was 10, i am now 30+ lol

i personally believe there is a secret faction/group that is purely controlled by aliens, its why we haven't had proper disclosure regarding ufo/uap

my reasoning is very simple, humans are upcoming advanced species(in time) so you wanna observe them(recon) as much as possible. this includes boots on ground, what better way than to have your own secret agency/group militia that keeps tab on humans.

ps: i hate the term uap, ufo sounded so cool

originally posted by: Observer19
a reply to: ArMaP

You can't prove a negative no matter how you claim to be coldly logical about that point of view. It has no value.

I don't see why do you say that as an answer to my post.

I'll just close this by reminding you that cognative dissodance is a terrible thing to waste.
I don't see the connection between cognitive dissonance and my post either.