Can this one philosophical sentence be put together any better?

a reply to: godservant

If you are seeking to simplify it to one sentence?

I get blind, the more I see

A line of lyrics from one of my songs

Full lyrics below, if you are interested in the longer version

---

Erica Owns The Sky - All Or Nothing Kinda Fears

It's getting cold as the night moves in
I'm a long, long way from home
Feelings fade with the breath of the wind
All senses dazed and numb

A painted stare that forever is me
Jaded by uncertainty
Cause I'm damned if I do
And I'm damned if I don't

I'm such a tragedy

Pre-chorus:
If you see the devil on the road tonight
Forgive him if you please
When the whole world seems against you
Gotta see your madness free

Feeling lucky just to breathe

Chorus:
Content misery
Dying can't feel better
In every try, exists a fail
I get blind, the more I see

Listen to me
As I tell you something
That's been on my mind
We need to get right down to the root of the problem

Empty whispers tease my ears
These all or nothing kinda fears
Haven't tasted joy for years
These all or nothing kinda fears

Picture memories of my lives gone by
Suppressed by harder years
A million pieces, yet still further to break
With barely time to breathe

I still believe in a happier me
Bathing in serenity
But if you can't ride the wind, then your can you fly?
And you can't live on Earth, if your heads in the sky

Pre-chorus
Chorus

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks there's something wrong
Maybe I've been seeking more than what I've got for way too long
Still I live in hope that the answers will be seen
To these all or nothing kinda fears

Chorus

We need to get right down to the root of the problem
We need to get right down to the root of the problem

These all or nothing kinda fears

How are we ever gonna be free in a world where no-one cares?

a reply to: godservant

Can this one philosophical sentence be put together any better?

It can.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. - William Shakespeare

A fool is known by his speech, and a wise man by his silence. - Pythagoras

Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. - Cato the Elder

Learning makes the wise wiser and the fool more foolish.
–John Ray

Cheers

😊🍻

a reply to: RAY1990

I've just invented a gubblewubble in my mind, I'd define it for you but it's impossible without lending vocabulary that describes other things. You're just going to have to trust me that I've made this 100% original thing that literally can't be defined...

Sounds like in your head it's well defined, I can not deny you this independence, I think phantasy and faith are very special traits about humans.
I'd give you time to work it out and see if it walks. You'll invent a vocabulary im sure....

If everything is borrowed do the narratives even matter?

Not really, I guess it depends mostly on your reaction to the narrative, and if it leads you to understanding. Maybe diffrent narratives work differently on different people.

Maybe everything is lies except the necessity for narrative that leads to understanding.

I can see platos shadow puppeteer say that, if he was telling the truth for once...

originally posted by: Compendium
a reply to: godservant

If you are seeking to simplify it to one sentence?

I get blind, the more I see

A line of lyrics from one of my songs

Full lyrics below, if you are interested in the longer version

---

Erica Owns The Sky - All Or Nothing Kinda Fears

It's getting cold as the night moves in
I'm a long, long way from home
Feelings fade with the breath of the wind
All senses dazed and numb

A painted stare that forever is me
Jaded by uncertainty
Cause I'm damned if I do
And I'm damned if I don't

I'm such a tragedy

Pre-chorus:
If you see the devil on the road tonight
Forgive him if you please
When the whole world seems against you
Gotta see your madness free

Feeling lucky just to breathe

Chorus:
Content misery
Dying can't feel better
In every try, exists a fail
I get blind, the more I see

Listen to me
As I tell you something
That's been on my mind
We need to get right down to the root of the problem

Empty whispers tease my ears
These all or nothing kinda fears
Haven't tasted joy for years
These all or nothing kinda fears

Picture memories of my lives gone by
Suppressed by harder years
A million pieces, yet still further to break
With barely time to breathe

I still believe in a happier me
Bathing in serenity
But if you can't ride the wind, then your can you fly?
And you can't live on Earth, if your heads in the sky

Pre-chorus
Chorus

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks there's something wrong
Maybe I've been seeking more than what I've got for way too long
Still I live in hope that the answers will be seen
To these all or nothing kinda fears

Chorus

We need to get right down to the root of the problem
We need to get right down to the root of the problem

These all or nothing kinda fears

How are we ever gonna be free in a world where no-one cares?

All I got is... "Wow!"

To the OP:
I thought I would elaborate on my previous response...

To conquer truth, you must surrender lies.

This is an original sentence, not a quote.

I took the challenge of what you asked and expressed the meaning of those words, and only those words, as succinctly as I could. This was not a statement on the overall broad meaning of truth, but a direct response to the question.

Using the contrasting verbs, "conquer" and "surrender," offers the dichotomy associated with truth and lies. Each are also strong actions that, in most cases, are the result of two opposing forces that collide. Neither are always easy to achieve, and to surrender implies that you lost or failed. Hence, the difficulty you expressed with, "the more you have to unlearn as you find more and more of what you learned was not even true."

I suppose it is a constant struggle, and the mountain we must all climb to avoid the falling rocks.

Anyway, the words are yours if you want them.

a reply to: godservant

originally posted by: Terpene
99% of knowledge is 3rd hand...

Uh, that’s something like 666%!!

LOL!!

I only minored in math so I still remember enough algebra to be dangerous!

a reply to: godservant

"Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain." - Homer Simpson

originally posted by: godservant
The problem with knowing is the more you learn, the more you have to unlearn as you find more and more of what you learned was not even true.

Can this one philosophical sentence be put together any better?

Sure.

Soonish, AI™ will become individualized, and figure-out which words and phrases are the most impactful to us.
It will then use that formula, to tell us things that seem like incredibly accurate and wise statements.

Not much hope that it won't be used against us, someday.

But how much time will it take for AI™ to figure-out, that what we are really attracted to is not the words, but underneath the words ?

Yeah : it'll probably figure that out pretty quick too ...

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
...
Truth is never one dimensional. Truth has many facets, and I don't think we ever see all the many sides of it as can be presented.
...

The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14)

So with that in mind, let's have a closer look at this subject of truth and knowledge (Latin: scientia, from which the English word "science" is also derived).

Science—Mankind’s Ongoing Search for Truth; Part 1 (Awake!—1993)

“YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32) These oft-quoted words of wisdom were spoken by a man whom millions view as the greatest man who ever lived.* Although the speaker was referring to religious truth, in certain respects truth in any field of activity can set people free. [*: Christ Jesus. ...]

Scientific truth, for example, has freed people from many false ideas, such as that the earth is flat, that the earth is the center of the universe, that heat is a fluid called caloric, that foul air causes epidemics, and that the atom is the smallest particle of matter. The practical application of scientific truths in industry, as well as in the fields of communication and transportation, has freed people from unnecessary drudgery and, to a degree, from the limitations of time and distance. Scientific truths applied in preventive medicine and health-care have helped free people from premature death or a morbid fear of disease.

Science​—What Is It?

According to The World Book Encyclopedia, “science covers the broad field of human knowledge concerned with facts held together by principles (rules).” Understandably, there are various kinds of science. The book The Scientist claims: “In theory, almost any kind of knowledge might be made scientific, since by definition a branch of knowledge becomes a science when it is pursued in the spirit of the scientific method.”

...

Learning by Trial and Error

Religion and science are both examples of mankind’s desire to know the truth. But there is a significant difference between how religious truth is sought on the one hand and scientific truth on the other. A searcher for religious truth will probably turn to the Holy Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, the Vedas, or the Tripitaka, depending on whether he is a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, or a Buddhist. There he will find what is considered by his religion to be a revelation of religious truth, possibly deriving from a divine source and therefore viewed as a final authority.

However, the searcher for scientific truth has no such final authority to turn to​—neither a book nor an individual. Scientific truth is not revealed; it is discovered. This necessitates a system of trial and error, with the searcher for scientific truth often finding himself in a fruitless endeavor. But by systematically following four steps, he pursues a fruitful search. (See box “Arriving at Truth the Scientific Way.”) Nevertheless, scientific victories are celebrated on the ruins of scientific defeats as formerly accepted views are rejected to make way for new ones viewed as more nearly correct.

Despite this hit-and-miss method, scientists have over the centuries built up an amazing amount of scientific knowledge. Although often mistaken, they have been able to correct many inaccurate conclusions before serious damage was done. In fact, as long as faulty knowledge stays within the realm of pure science, the danger of inflicting serious harm is minimal. But when attempts are made to transform seriously flawed pure science into applied science, the results can be disastrous.

...

The Search for Truth (2020)

...

CAN YOU FIND TRUTH?

You may wonder, ‘How is it possible to find out the truth about anything?’ After all, finding out the truth about many things seems to be getting more and more difficult. Why?

Many people do not trust governments, businesses, or the media to tell them the truth. They find it difficult to distinguish facts from opinions, half-truths, and outright lies that are presented as reliable information. In this climate of distrust and misinformation, people disagree not only on how to interpret the facts but also on what the actual facts are.

Despite such challenges, it is possible to find truthful answers to life’s most important questions. How? By applying skills you use in everyday life.

YOUR SEARCH FOR TRUTH

To some extent, you search for truth every day. Consider Jessica’s situation. “My daughter’s peanut allergy is so severe,” she says, “that even a trace amount of peanut protein can be fatal.” Jessica needs to know that the food she buys will be safe for her daughter. “My first step is to read food labels carefully to check the ingredients. Then I do further research and even contact the manufacturer to confirm that there is no risk of cross contamination. I also consider other reliable sources that can vouch for the company’s reputation for following safe food practices.”

Your daily search for truth may not be as critical as Jessica’s, but like Jessica, you may use the following approach to find answers to questions you have:

- Get the facts.

- Do additional research.

- Make sure your sources are credible.

This same process can help you find truthful answers to life’s big questions. How?

A UNIQUE BOOK OF TRUTH

When searching for Bible truth, Jessica used a similar approach to the one she uses when researching her daughter’s food allergies. She says, “Careful reading and diligent research helped me find the truth in the Bible.” Like Jessica, millions of people have learned what the Bible says about these questions:

- Why are we here?

- What happens at death?

- ...

...

Throughout history, people from many backgrounds have considered the Bible to be a reliable source of truth. Today, millions follow its teachings. Yet others dismiss the Bible as being irrelevant or fictitious. What do you think? Can you find truth in the Bible?

How can you determine if the Bible merits your trust? Consider an illustration: If a friend consistently told you the truth over many years, you would likely consider him trustworthy. Has the Bible, like a trustworthy friend, consistently told the truth? Consider some of these historical examples:

The Bible-Accurate History, Reliable Prophecy part 1 of 3

originally posted by: whereislogic
... They find it difficult to distinguish facts from opinions, ...

That was from one of the articles in my previous comment, which takes me back to an excellent scene from the movie Inside Out:

So true. People get them mixed up and confused all the time.

a reply to: whereislogic

Our human brain and mind accept truths based on the results we receive at the time of inquiry.

Water is a liquid that is very cold to the touch.

Water is a liquid that is very hot to the touch.

Both sentences are true depending on who is reporting their findings, when, and what they were looking for.

John is a wonderful man. He is the pillar of the community, and he is very loving. Says the people in his family and community, and from everything they have personally witnessed, it is their truth.

John is monster that stalks young boys in the inner city streets at night, torments them, and kills them.

Says the young men that were lucky enough to escape his grip. This is what they experienced and their truth.

Truth, your truth, and what is true for another, may look quite different.

That even goes for biblical truth. That is why we have so many different religions. Each person believes their own biblical truth, and some feel so strongly about it that they are willing to kill for it, and some are willing to die for it.

originally posted by: godservant
The problem with knowing is the more you learn, the more you have to unlearn as you find more and more of what you learned was not even true.

I have not unlearned some of my truths/reality but rather it was more of something like diving deeper into additional truths about that specific reality, such as living many decades enough to notice humans/society repeating the same things over and over, such as politicians always going into our pockets for more tax money instead of thinking outside the box for different solutions. This I learned decades ago and have since found it to be a recurring truth. Just one example. Other learned truths after diving deeper showed the truth to be false, at least within my limited understanding, and hoping that programmed biases did not interfere in that learning.

I suppose what I could offer as an original quote from myself is:

Within a perceived truth lies hidden truths that must be excavated and observed over time then accepted without doubt as unchanging human failings or alternatively as human greatness of spirit and mind.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: whereislogic

Water is a liquid that is very cold to the touch.

Water is a liquid that is very hot to the touch.

Both sentences are true depending on who is reporting their findings, when, and what they were looking for.

The only part of those general statements about water that is actually true/factual (in all situations, under all conditions) is that water is a liquid. The other part is influenced by the condition of the water (among other things), primarily the temperature, and therefore cannot be stated as a fact/truth in a general statement about water (or in that case it's invalid, it's not a fact/truth in all situations, which is what it means if you make a general statement about water, it has to be true in all situations and under all conditions, that is, if you want to claim that it's true about "water", without any specification as to the condition of the water, or in this case, also the one touching the water; therefore the argument is that it's true for water in general, that's how those sentences above are phrased). Or in other words, as soon as you start your sentence with "water is ...", then whatever follows must be true in all situations, under all conditions, because you are making a general statement about water. If you want to claim afterwards that it's true that is.

Many believe that truth is relative​—in other words, that what is true to one person may be untrue to another, so that both may be “right.” This belief is so widespread that there is a word for it​—“relativism.” Is this how you view the matter of truth? If so, is it possible that you have adopted this view without thoroughly questioning it? Even if you have not, do you know how much this philosophy affects your life?

Also, you would hardly be the first person to question the idea of absolute truth. Some ancient Greek philosophers made the teaching of such doubts virtually their life’s work! Five centuries before Pontius Pilate's famous cynical “what is truth?” question to Jesus, Parmenides (who has been considered the father of European metaphysics) held that real knowledge was unattainable. Democritus, hailed as “the greatest of ancient philosophers,” asserted: “Truth is buried deep. . . . We know nothing for certain.” Perhaps the most revered of them all, Socrates, said that all that he really knew was that he knew nothing.

This assault on the idea that truth can be known has continued down to our day. Some philosophers, for instance, say that since knowledge reaches us through our senses, which can be deceived, no knowledge is verifiably true. French philosopher and mathematician René Descartes decided to examine all the things he thought he knew for certain. He discarded all but one truth that he deemed incontrovertible: “Cogito ergo sum,” or, “I think, therefore I am.”

Relativism is not limited to philosophers. It is taught by religious leaders, indoctrinated in schools, and spread by the media. Allan Bloom wrote in his book The Closing of the American Mind: “There is one thing a professor can be absolutely certain of: almost every student entering the university believes, or says he believes, that truth is relative.” Bloom found that if he challenged his students’ conviction on this matter, they would react with astonishment, “as though he were calling into question 2 + 2 = 4.” (the irony is that that's an absolute/factual/truthful statement, an absolute truth)

The same thinking is promoted in countless other ways. Of course, some might argue that much of this relativism represents open-mindedness and therefore has a positive impact on human society. Does it really, though? And what about its impact on you? Do you believe that truth is relative or nonexistent? If so, searching for it may strike you as a waste of time. Such an outlook will affect your future.

As some of your commentary already more or less indicated, many religious organizations claim to have the truth, and they offer it eagerly to others. However, between them they offer a dizzying profusion of “truths.” Is this just another evidence that all truths are relative, that there are no absolute truths? No.

In his book The Art of Thinking, Professor V. R. Ruggiero expresses his surprise that even intelligent people sometimes say that truth is relative. He reasons: “If everyone makes his own truth, then no person’s idea can be better than another’s. All must be equal. And if all ideas are equal, what is the point in researching any subject? Why dig in the ground for answers to archeological questions? Why probe the causes of tension in the Middle East? Why search for a cancer cure? Why explore the galaxy? These activities make sense only if some answers are better than others, if truth is something separate from, and unaffected by, individual perspectives.”

In fact, no one really believes that there is no truth. When it comes to physical realities, such as medicine, mathematics, or the laws of physics, even the staunchest relativist will believe that some things are true. Who of us would dare to ride in an airplane if we did not think that the laws of aerodynamics were absolute truths? Verifiable truths do exist; they surround us, and we stake our lives on them.

So let us leave the murky waters of relativism and examine briefly what the Bible describes as the pure waters of truth. (John 4:14; Revelation 22:17) In the Bible, “truth” is not at all like the abstract, intangible concept over which philosophers debate.

When Jesus said that his whole purpose in life was to talk about the truth, he was speaking of something that faithful Jews had valued for centuries. In their sacred writings, the Jews had long read of “truth” as something concrete, not theoretical. In the Bible, “truth” translates the Hebrew word “ʼemethʹ,” which signifies that which is firm, solid, and, perhaps most of all, reliable.

The Jews had good reason for viewing truth in that way. They called their God, Jehovah, “the God of truth.” (Psalm 31:5) This was because everything Jehovah said he would do, he did. When he made promises, he kept them. When he inspired prophecies, they were fulfilled. When he uttered final judgments, they were carried out. Millions of Israelites had been eyewitnesses of these realities. The inspired penmen of the Bible recorded them as indisputable facts of history. Unlike other books viewed as sacred, the Bible is not set against a backdrop of myth or legend. It is firmly grounded in verifiable facts​—historical, archaeological, scientific, and sociological realities. No wonder the psalmist says of Jehovah: “Your law is truth. . . . All your commandments are truth. . . . The substance of your word is truth”!​—Psalm 119:142, 151, 160.

So that's why I included a link at the end of my previous comment with the evidence for a number of these verifiable facts. But since you probably haven't taken a look at that yet, I'll leave it at that for now.

a reply to: Terpene

Tulpa?

Just thinking what would happen if one was created that refused to be defined, if anything refused to be defined really... The ultimate catalyst for change?

Narratives, I'd consider them important once a person embodies them just like the defined forms of energy they consume and borrow, it's temporary ownership.

I can see platos shadow puppeteer say that, if he was telling the truth for once...

I don't recall whispers from the backroom ever being mentioned. I'd assume in Plato's hypothetical that the shadow casters knew a few things about the human brain and conclusions. It's always going to boil down to what you do with "it" and the conclusions are often limited, in my mind anyways.

One could say the game is rigged from the start or maybe the choices are made to be simple? Idk. It's nice to see people improve roads and sentences but I often wonder about the ones looking for unuttered words and untrodden paths, I imagine it's the kind of places a gubblewubble hides.

I see it as a conundrum given the affect shadows have, limited choices and all that.

Having forgotten what you learned is not a problem when it gets you righteous through the day.

a reply to: godservant

One never unlearns what one has learned, you simply adapt your understanding.