Do you find the Lack of Discipline disturbing

a reply to: quintessentone

Well that can be viewed from a lot of different angles, since we are a society that also promotes violence.

Not just in movies, TV shows, and video games, but in our constant relationship to wars here and abroad.

So spanking or not spanking a child, does little in what we teach them about the acceptance of violence.

In some cases we teach children that striking someone is necessary and acceptable. That includes spanking.

Though discipline is not solely about spanking. My parents were the masters of effective discipline, and their creative punishments, never involved spankings. I sure as hell wish they had. But my Dad always said he wanted us to have time to "think" about our transgressions. So our punishments were always labor intensive, and took a long time to finish.

Trust me. You never repeated whatever you did to earn your punishment from my parents.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

A true story. There once were two sisters and when the older sister did something against the rules where the punishment was spanking, when the parents discovered the broken rule and asked who did it, the older sister blamed the younger sister and the parent spanked the innocent younger sister amid the non-stop protesting of innocence.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

A true story. There once were two sisters and when the older sister did something against the rules where the punishment was spanking, when the parents discovered the broken rule and asked who did it, the older sister blamed the younger sister and the parent spanked the innocent younger sister amid the non-stop protesting of innocence.

That is not what I would call an act of discipline.

Discipline involves training, rules, codes of behavior, and lots of time, patience, listening, and love.

I did not know what hurt more, the hours of labor, or the hour long lectures I had to listen to from my parents, along with my painful attempts at my defense dissertations.

Not all parents are good at being parents, and are lousy disciplinarians. I find that children that grew up with little or poor discipline have more problems with it than those that grew up with parents that were better at it.

Though I I have several friends that grew up in homes where the discipline was heavy on punishment and teaching was non existent, and they proved to be really good at parenting. I guess they learned the hard way.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I know in my case when I was expecting my first child I studied Early Childhood Education and any other expert parenting material available to me. I then compared these experts' different views and suggestions and decided on adopting those parenting methods where the majority of the experts had consensus. It worked out well, and physical punishment was ill advised by all of them.

I learned one thing growing up....

Drunken parents don't know the difference between discipline and torture. The stories I could tell....

news article; 'Progressive Discipline' in Canada schools

news.yahoo.com...

“You should have seen their bruises. The guy’s back is totally messed up. The girl still has arm issues,” Margaret, a teacher with over a decade of experience in Ontario’s public schools, told National Review.

Worried about the potential repercussions, the teachers who were assaulted were not able to physically restrain the student, nor did senior school administrators expel him.

“All he got was an in-school suspension. His mom came to pick him up, asked if he wanted dumplings, and they left. There were no consequences,” Margaret said.

school officials decided to go new-age touchy-feely mumbo jumbo and now kids can hit and break stuff with no repercussions.

idiots. some people you just can't reach with words. kids need discipline.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Research also shows that using violence, smacking a child anywhere, is showing them it's OK to use violence to handle your issues.

Research shows that research can be used to show whatever the researcher - or the one paying the researcher - to show.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: quintessentone

So spanking or not spanking a child, does little in what we teach them about the acceptance of violence.

In some cases we teach children that striking someone is necessary and acceptable. That includes spanking.

Though discipline is not solely about spanking.

I totally agree with this, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that kids should be spanked for any and every little micro-transgression.

Also, every child is different. Some respond very well to things like 'time-outs', some just don't, and this is from my own personal experience.

My parents were the masters of effective discipline, and their creative punishments, never involved spankings. I sure as hell wish they had. But my Dad always said he wanted us to have time to "think" about our transgressions. So our punishments were always labor intensive, and took a long time to finish.

Trust me. You never repeated whatever you did to earn your punishment from my parents.

I remember those... one of ours was picking up rocks in a wheelbarrow from the fields surrounding our house. Sometimes it took all day, or more, to clear the are assigned, and this would of course always be on our weekends off from school.

But, did it work on me? Well, I can tell you, I cleaned up many acres of fields around our house of rovks and debris.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

A true story. There once were two sisters and when the older sister did something against the rules where the punishment was spanking, when the parents discovered the broken rule and asked who did it, the older sister blamed the younger sister and the parent spanked the innocent younger sister amid the non-stop protesting of innocence.

I never spank my kids for something that deserves a spanking based on the testimony of one of the others. I only spank when I see them doing it, and I always take the opportunity to test them too...

I'll ask each of them what happened, and the one that lies to me gets a double-spanking, with a very clear explanation of WHY. Of course, this can only be done when you know they are lying.

Raising kids is the hardest work I've ever done.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
news article; 'Progressive Discipline' in Canada schools

news.yahoo.com...

“You should have seen their bruises. The guy’s back is totally messed up. The girl still has arm issues,” Margaret, a teacher with over a decade of experience in Ontario’s public schools, told National Review.

Worried about the potential repercussions, the teachers who were assaulted were not able to physically restrain the student, nor did senior school administrators expel him.

“All he got was an in-school suspension. His mom came to pick him up, asked if he wanted dumplings, and they left. There were no consequences,” Margaret said.

school officials decided to go new-age touchy-feely mumbo jumbo and now kids can hit and break stuff with no repercussions.

idiots. some people you just can't reach with words. kids need discipline.

I don't know what leadership is/was in that school you mentioned but in the schools I am in any child in crisis, and when a child is in crisis they lash out and trash rooms, but there are safety nets in place for these children that need major help and they are immediately withdrawn from school for treatment.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: quintessentone

So spanking or not spanking a child, does little in what we teach them about the acceptance of violence.

In some cases we teach children that striking someone is necessary and acceptable. That includes spanking.

Though discipline is not solely about spanking.

I totally agree with this, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that kids should be spanked for any and every little micro-transgression.

Also, every child is different. Some respond very well to things like 'time-outs', some just don't, and this is from my own personal experience.

My parents were the masters of effective discipline, and their creative punishments, never involved spankings. I sure as hell wish they had. But my Dad always said he wanted us to have time to "think" about our transgressions. So our punishments were always labor intensive, and took a long time to finish.

Trust me. You never repeated whatever you did to earn your punishment from my parents.

I remember those... one of ours was picking up rocks in a wheelbarrow from the fields surrounding our house. Sometimes it took all day, or more, to clear the are assigned, and this would of course always be on our weekends off from school.

But, did it work on me? Well, I can tell you, I cleaned up many acres of fields around our house of rovks and debris.

Well when parents are stressed and/or have not dealt with their issues/problems then it does not take much from a child to trigger anger and violence in the parent for something that would be deemed by others as a minor infraction.

The point I was trying to make was that using physical violence as a discipline tool is a slippery slope when parents aren't disciplined or in control of their emotions or stress levels.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Raising children is indeed hard work.

Things were done different way back when. Spankings, and punishment came with a long, and I do mean a long discussion. Not just my parents, but I remember even with my friends, before punishment came a long talk about who, what, when, where, any and everyone that was there, what was done, by whom, why, and what “what were you thinking”.

Spankings were not quick responses done out of just anger.

But respect was a big thing back then and it was something that was earned.

I remember the phrase words.

“This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.”

“If I don’t punish you someone else will, and it will be far worse.”

“You are headed down the wrong path child, if I don’t show you the right one, there will be no coming back.”

My favorite:
“I brought you into this world, and I will take you out of it.”

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: tanstaafl

Raising children is indeed hard work.

Things were done different way back when. Spankings, and punishment came with a long, and I do mean a long discussion. Not just my parents, but I remember even with my friends, before punishment came a long talk about who, what, when, where, any and everyone that was there, what was done, by whom, why, and what “what were you thinking”.

Spankings were not quick responses done out of just anger.

But respect was a big thing back then and it was something that was earned.

I remember the phrase words.

“This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.”

“If I don’t punish you someone else will, and it will be far worse.”

“You are headed down the wrong path child, if I don’t show you the right one, there will be no coming back.”

My favorite:
“I brought you into this world, and I will take you out of it.”

The discussions and teaching a child is what is being touted as the best parenting tool these days, not both discussion (one-sided?) and a spanking.

The most recent research out of the University of Texas compiled over five decades of study data. The experts came to a rather startling conclusion: Spanking causes similar emotional and developmental harm as abuse to children.

According to the study, the more children are spanked, the more likely they are to defy their parents and experience:

antisocial behavior
aggression
mental health problems
cognitive difficulties

www.healthline.com...-you-use-spanking-as-a-form-of-punishment?-

The source includes pros and cons so ultimately it's up to the parents to choose but not all children are the same, some may not fare well from physical punishment.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I think most of it can be summed up as the loss of respect.
As a senior in this world, I have watched it dribble away since the time of JFK, RFK and MLK.

What occurs in your home, is what your children see and they naturally try to emulate you because it is all they really know about society initially.

As the gatekeepers of American culture we have allowed terrible people to be in charge of this world and very few actions to be taken against them.

We are in serious trouble unless we can muster up the realization that we are on the precipice, and leaning forward.

I am leaning toward education being the problem but at the end of the day this would just be my opinion based on my perception or perceptions of the world around me and the people in it. I will admit I was one of those that paid others to do my work in school and only took the tests. That is now biting me in the seat cushion and hashing my mental comfort now so relearning the art of writing. Feedback negative and positive is welcome as I am aware I could use practice and refinement. Perspective from others are a super useful way to work on self awareness.

Back to my thought, Our perception of the world and how we treat others is a reflection of how we see ourselves and treat ourselves. Self hate is one of our more damaging traits! Lack of Knowledge, access to knowledge and a proper education system to help develop critical thinking to make use of all that knowledge. Whoever controls education and the path humanity walks can be the difference between freedom and oppression.

Children are the foundation of humanity and its future. School should be a lifetime endeavor with jobs and careers being extensions or brief stops for skills needed to move on, teaching to view work as a hobby or challenge. Education needs to be rethought and transformed and the current ways replaced. Educate everyone! Each child learns at their own pace and needs a unique tailored education that leads into a career that fits a needed missing piece in the bigger picture that makes up humanity and the road set before them. Education should be a self-sustaining, not for profit system. The future starts with the foundation and that is the children of humanity, without them there is no future.

Our education starts the moment we are born. The perception we use to see the world is now starting to develop. The data we take in from our 5 senses start processing the environment around us. The Humans that raise us, spend time with us and teach us until school starts are based on their own knowledge sets, how they were educated and how they perceive the world.

Will you be taught emotional intelligence which should always have been a thing? Will you be taught to hate or show compassion? Will you be taught more sins than virtues as you go along, more virtues then sin? To do anything without a balance can unintentionally lead to bad things regardless of intentions.

What will help shape who you are as you grow from a newborn? Education, knowledge and how you accumulate it matters, is it factual knowledge or is it fabricated as a means of control?. So many factors go into who we become as adults and those changes never stop. We constantly change according to the knowledge we hold.

a reply to: quintessentone

I don’t have a lot of faith in the supposed experts, looking at the problems our society have with the youth of today.

They can’t blame their behavior on spankings.

The majority of these children have never had to deal with being told “no” let alone ever having been spanked.

The majority of the ridicuously insane meltdowns, I have seen, have been caused by an electronic device was taken from them. I think they should be looking at what those devices are doing, because they are causing more problems than a spanking has ever caused.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: quintessentone

I don’t have a lot of faith in the supposed experts, looking at the problems our society have with the youth of today.

They can’t blame their behavior on spankings.

The majority of these children have never had to deal with being told “no” let alone ever having been spanked.

The majority of the ridicuously insane meltdowns, I have seen, have been caused by an electronic device was taken from them. I think they should be looking at what those devices are doing, because they are causing more problems than a spanking has ever caused.

I absolutely believe in the psychological science because it just makes sense and we all see the results of toxic parenting, other than spanking.

Respect should be reciprocal between parents and children, but rarely is because the parents hold all the power and control.

Dr. Childs says these are traits to look for if you believe you may have toxic parents:

Self-centered behavior: As Dr. Childs mentioned before, it’s a big sign when parents put priority on their needs over that of their children.

Physical abuse: This, Dr. Childs says, is physical abuse that goes beyond certain disciplinary actions, like spanking. “This is abuse that is disproportionate to what the child did. It’s unwarranted,” she says.

Verbal abuse: Yelling, screaming, name-calling and blaming are all examples, she notes.

Emotional abuse: One example, Dr. Childs says, is stonewalling your child if they’ve done something wrong; in other words, giving them the silent treatment for hours or even days at a time.

Blaming the child: Making something feel like it’s a child’s fault, particularly if it’s nothing they can control like marital problems, is another form of toxic behavior.

Manipulation: “We’ve all had those guilt trips from our parents,” Dr. Child says, “but that’s normal. The manipulative kind of behavior goes beyond that, an extreme form so that the parent always gets what they want.”

Inability to respect boundaries: Just as with friends and colleagues, an inability to respect boundaries is another sign of toxic parenting.

It can damage relationships outside your family, too. “If we don’t understand how to treat people and how to be in reciprocal relationships, where there’s a give and take, then it can spread beyond your family, too,” she adds.

health.clevelandclinic.org...

If your children or grown children have distanced themselves from you then that should be a clue that your parenting style is not working.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
The discussions and teaching a child is what is being touted as the best parenting tool these days, not both discussion (one-sided?) and a spanking.

"The most recent research out of the University of Texas compiled over five decades of study data. The experts came to a rather startling conclusion: Spanking causes similar emotional and developmental harm as abuse to children.

Yeah, like NightSkyeB4Dawn, I don't put much stock in what so-called 'authorities' or 'experts' say these days. In fact, I lean more toward the right thing/truth being the polar opposite of what 'the experts agree on'.

These same so-called experts you apparently worship are the same ones that are providing validation for all of the CRT/gender identity BS.

No thanks, I'll just use my noggin and make up my own mind.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
The discussions and teaching a child is what is being touted as the best parenting tool these days, not both discussion (one-sided?) and a spanking.

"The most recent research out of the University of Texas compiled over five decades of study data. The experts came to a rather startling conclusion: Spanking causes similar emotional and developmental harm as abuse to children.

Yeah, like NightSkyeB4Dawn, I don't put much stock in what so-called 'authorities' or 'experts' say these days. In fact, I lean more toward the right thing/truth being the polar opposite of what 'the experts agree on'.

These same so-called experts you apparently worship are the same ones that are providing validation for all of the CRT/gender identity BS.

No thanks, I'll just use my noggin and make up my own mind.

What the psychologists are saying these days is that they agree with the conclusions other experts agreed upon over the last 50 years.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: tanstaafl
What the psychologists are saying these days is that they agree with the conclusions other experts agreed upon over the last 50 years.

Yes, that game is why/how everyone believed in the flat earth for so long.

Like I said, you can keep your 'experts', I'll just do my own thinking, thank you very much.