NATO vs Russia Iran China

a reply to: Kester

Not only is Russia a powerful force, they can mobilize and train 10 times the number of troops in half the time that NATO can.

That’s just pure hyperbole, and would be if you were just comparing Russia to America. We have more than double their population.

But if we’re comparing them to all of NATO, the number proves to be invented on the spot.

Not to mention, NATO is equipped to such a degree, number in troops isn’t as important.

Russia can’t project in the same manner because NATO has ten times the amount of aircraft carriers and other vital war machines.

a reply to: Kester

because there are agreements, bonds and alliances between countries. for example, if a major earthquake hits california and 1/3 of america would be affected, international clearly defined aid and rescue measures would be initiated instantly. this is how it works in the civilized world. russia has no right to attack ukraine. cowards duck away. brave ones stand by the attacked.

the real question is: why did russia attack ukraine?

a reply to: Kester

This guy saying hundreds of foreign idiots showed up thinking they would get to shoot Russians with little or no risk or discomfort is possibly the most realistic commentary I've heard about this war.

ETA: Nevermind, I just got to the part where he talks about the two trucks of NATO equipment disappearing into thin air. That's even more believable. Send them another $20B.

originally posted by: JAY1980

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Kester

Glad to see republicans support more aid for Ukraine

Warmongers!

That British 'volunteer' is just so typical of what's going in the destabilisation of eastern Europe. There will be whole front lines full of these so termed 'volunteers.'

Case example.....................

I worked with a Dutch man a few decades ago. He'd been a 'volunteer' in the Croatian Yugoslavia War. He told me there were hardly any Croatian forces doing the actual fighting. They came in from the rear and forced the Serbs out of Krajina. The actual fighting was done by 'volunteers' from all over.

So I asked him how come he came to volunteer. He said he'd see a job advert in a Dutch newspaper asking for ex servicemen to fight as mercenaries. Told me they were very well paid for defeating the Serbian army.

These wars are fought be western mercenaries, making out they are volunteers. Be interesting to find out who was providing the money. The Dutch man said he had no idea of coarse.

a reply to: nickyw

The US, and NATO by extension, have for 60 years now been incapable of tying tactical objectives to foreign policy objectives.

The west's group think bubble at the general officer level has produced a force incapable of anything except prolonged quagmires.

Which may have been the goal all along. But will cause the US to lose a major war sooner than later.

a reply to: watchitburn

I think NATO have watched the soviets so hard they've ended up becoming them and the current state of the NATO alliance in particular looks more like the soviet block and the Biden admin looks more like Gorbys term before the fall.. I don't think its planned more they've so obsessed about the reds they've become their obsession hence the ability of others like Iran and the CCP to outfox them.

I don't think the USA will lose a war as there is an $80tn hole looming that'll do the same kind of damage as 80 Ukraine's, its why the enemies of the US are making their move in this window, as they know whats coming and if we where honest so would we..

caveat the last couple of years has been like watching the fall of the soviets all over again with too few reforms and too many obsessions..

a reply to: malte85

Transcend.o rg

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves
SPOTLIGHT, 28 Feb 2022

Ben Norton | Multipolarista – TRANSCEND Media Service

Notes from a 1991 meeting prove that the US, UK, France, and Germany assured the Soviet Union that NATO would not expand east. It’s part of a growing body of evidence that the West broke its promise to Russia.


NATO Summit

21 Feb 2022 – A newly discovered document provides more evidence that Western governments broke their promise not to expand NATO eastward after German reunification.

Notes from a 1991 meeting between top US, British, French, and German officials confirm that there was a “general agreement that membership of NATO and security guarantees [are] unacceptable” for Central and Eastern Europe.

Germany’s diplomatic representative emphasized that the Soviet Union was promised in 1990 that “we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe” river, in eastern Germany.

The document, which was formerly classified as secret, comes from the British National Archives.

It was made widely known this February by the German newspaper Der Spiegel, but was actually first published by US political scientist Joshua Shifrinson in 2019.

Well, here's something: German Foreign Ministry official explaining in March 1991 that NATO "made it clear" to Sovs it wouldn't expand "beyond the Elbe" and so couldn't "offer membership of NATO to Poland and the others." Validates my @Journal_IS thesis: t.co...! pic.twitter.com/f5bO8okZYz

— Josh Shifrinson (@shifrinson) August 11, 2019

The document describes a meeting between senior officials from the United States, United Kingdom, France, and Germany in the city of Bonn on March 6, 1991.

The subject of the gathering was “Security in Central and Eastern Europe.”

German diplomat Jürgen Chrobog is quoted in the notes saying, “We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe. We could not therefore offer membership of NATO to Poland and the others.”

The 2+4 negotiations were talks in 1990 that allowed for the reunification of Germany, featuring capitalist West Germany and socialist East Germany (the 2) along with the United States, Soviet Union, Britain, and France (the 4).

Chrobog’s comments in the notes, therefore, confirm that the Western powers had promised the USSR in 1990 that they would not expand NATO eastward after German reunification.

Further clarifying this fact, the document adds that there was a “general agreement that membership of NATO and security guarantees [are] unacceptable” for countries east of Germany.

NATO expansion document promise UK US Germany

NATO has added 14 member states east of Germany since end of First Cold War
Since the end of the First Cold War and the overthrow of the Soviet Union,14 countries in Central and Eastern Europe have joined the US-led NATO military alliance – all countries east of Germany, in flagrant violation of the promise not to expand.

In 1999, the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland joined NATO.

In 2004, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined as well.

In 2009, Albania and Croatia joined.

In 2017, Montenegro joined.

In 2020, North Macedonia joined.

NATO has also discussed the possibility of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine joining in the future.

In December 2021, the Russian Federation demanded that NATO agree to a series of security guarantees, including a promise not to add any more members. The United States and NATO rejected Moscow’s demands.

NATO expansion map

A map of NATO expansion

More evidence that NATO broke its promise not to expand east of Germany
The newly discovered 1991 diplomatic record is part of a growing body of evidence that the Russian government’s accusation that NATO broke its promise is indeed correct.

As Multipolarista previously reported, declassified documents from the governments of the United States, Britain, France, Germany, and the former Soviet Union and Russian Federation prove that NATO pledged not to expand east.

The National Security Archive at George Washington University in Washington, DC published records showing that US Secretary of State James Baker reassured Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev “not once, but three times” that NATO would expand “not one inch eastward,” in a February 9, 1990 meeting.

Baker admitted that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”

US Secretary of State Blinken claimed the military alliance “NATO never promised not to admit new members.”

This is a lie contradicted by multiple Western government documents, showing NATO promised the USSR not to expand "one inch eastward" past Germanyt.co...

— Multipolarista (@Multipolarista) January 27, 2022

All the troops, nukes and aircraft carriers mean nothing when the bio/chem starts to fly. You think this is going to be a "clean" war? Don't count on it....

They still don't get it: NATO works for the U.S. and is the one who gets the raw end of the deal.