Lost Roman Map has ATLANTIS at Eye of Sahara Africa! (Richat Structure)

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
there are multiple scientific studies indicating the sedimentary material was dumped across that area and into the ocean around 12 thousand years ago, which happens to be during the Younger Dryas period when scientist know large floods did occur around the world, something they suspect was caused by a sudden surge of melt-water that was trapped behind ice. It's pretty clear that some extreme event occurred during that period and the Richat Structure appears to be right in the path of the worst of it.

Yes. I've seen your claim.
Now I've seen your claim that there is evidence for your previous claim.
What I haven't seen is you backing up your claims.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

What did they do, get little crabs to carry their boats to the coast like Jack Sparrow escaping Worlds End?

Well it probably wasn't a flood event which occurred over night, it may have taken weeks or even years for Atlantis to become entirely uninhabitable. I imagine they would have traveled to dryer lands in order to re-settle but there would have been a strong motivation to start constructing boats after the flood and once they realized the oceans were rapidly rising. It wouldn't be hard for them to build boats if they were capable of building megalithic structures.

So you think Atlantis, with its maritime economy and gigantic naval forces, developed all that HUNDREDS OF MILES from the ocean? Or, is it that Plato got all that information wrong when he wrote about the place?
Do you see my point yet?
Are you refusing to see it?

Harte

originally posted by: bluesfreak

No it wasn't lying it was fiction crafting, i.e., writing a book to make a political point

Please prove this statement beyond any reasonable doubt to the forum .
I have seen no evidence presented anywhere that proves this statement conclusively.
You are making a statement that you cannot prove and are placing yourself into the ‘belief’ category that you so despise.
Some say Solons tale is the recounting of a ‘truth’ (Plato states it is the truth) and others like yourself say it is not. Neither have any more credence than the other so stop pretending it’s a ‘done deal’ with Atlantis, as it really isn’t , despite your ‘belief’.

Ps- please tell the forum just how many expeditions have been funded to explore , oh I don’t know, the Azores plateau actually LOOKING for evidence on the seabed that humans lived there ?
Please explain the peer reviewed papers from 1947 that clearly show late Pleistocene shallow water fossils and shorelines around the area of the ‘Atlantis’ seamounts , proving, surprisingly to those involved that this area had been above water during the late Pleistocene, and that limestone cobbles had been weathered sub-aerially- ie in the air, not under water.
Isostatic uplift and rebound are where your arguments fail spectacularly - sea level plotting around this area must take into account what happened to the sea bed after ice sheet melting on a triple plate junction that was affected from at least two joints as ice melted .
a reply to: Hanslune

Timaeus and Critias (in that order) are the next Dialogues after The Republic in Plato's series. Do you know what The Republic is about?
The conversation in The Republic is referenced in Timaeus (though not the Dialogue's name.) This reference, with its context, cements the story as political allegory.
In Timaeus, Plato has Critias introduce the tale thusly:

Now, therefore, —and this is the purpose of all that I have been saying, —I am ready to tell my tale, not in summary outline only but in full detail just as I heard it. And the city with its citizens which you described to us yesterday, as it were in a fable,we will now transport hither into the realm of fact; for we will assume that the city is that ancient city of ours and declare that the citizens you conceived are in truth those actual progenitors of ours, of whom the priest told. In all ways they will correspond, nor shall we be out of tune if we affirm that those citizens of yours are the very men who lived in that age. Thus, with united effort, each taking his part, we will endeavor to the best of our powers to do justice to the theme you have prescribed. Wherefore, Socrates, we must consider whether this story is to our mind, or we have still to look for some other to take its place.

www.perseus.tufts.edu...

Harte

There’s also this too. A declination of the bodies.

And what was the tale about, Critias? said Amynander. About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought to have been the most famous, but, through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors, it has not come down to us. Tell us, said the other, the whole story, and how and from whom Solon heard this veritable tradition. 'You Hellenes are ever children.' He replied:—In the Egyptian Delta, at the head of which the river Nile divides, there is a certain district which is called the district of Sais, and the great city of the district is also called Sais, and is the city from which King Amasis came. The citizens have a deity for their foundress; she is called in the Egyptian tongue Neith, and is asserted by them to be the same whom the Hellenes call Athene; they are great lovers of the Athenians, and say that they are in some way related to them. To this city came Solon, and was received [22] there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world—about Phoroneus, who is called 'the first man,' and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened. Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Phaëthon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals;

Your point is that the others listening to the tale found it fantastic and mind blowing . .

Personally , i don’t believe the Richat is Atlantis, - wrong place , way too large.
One thing we never see is a map where the sea level is that end of ice age 400 ft estimate lower, coupled with bathymetric data showing what the Mid Atlantic ridge would have looked like if it was a mile or more higher .
The triple plate junction is affected by what happens to it further north, like weighing scales . Canada has risen a mile or so since the weight of the ice sheets , Scotland by half a mile in some places I believe .
If one end rises, the other sinks. Two of the plates that join to the Azores were affected by isostatic rebound .
a reply to: Harte

a reply to: Hanslune

@ approx. 12:20 into the video, the author references the Holocene volcano, Emi Koussi...and suggests that lava flows from a major eruption, dated to approx. 14-12k years ago (radiocarbon dating on diatom beds), are shown from satellite imagery to be disrupted by evidence of a major water flow which "blasted it's way through the Sahara"...towards the Richat Structure from the North and East...AFTER those earlier lava flows were deposited.

Satellite images suggest the path of this huge water flow continued through the Richat Structure site, towards the coast...and ultimately depositing into the ocean at the position of the Mauritania Slide Complex.

Taken together, the evidence suggests this event took place approx. 11,000-12,000 years ago.

a reply to: Guyfriday

I understand you are suggesting a alternate location for the Ringed City. I can only say if after reviewing your position and I found it to be a likely candidate you would find me supporting you, 100%. Not because Im interested in fame and fortune, but because you were right. And in as much as possible I would assist and support your position.

At this point I can only suggest you reconsider your target. All your research is just as valid, now, apply it to the Richat, and see if it fits.

This location is receiving a lot of flaming arrows, I wonder why......... Could it be, we are over the target???

Please consider, we could use the help..

originally posted by: Nyiah
I'll make a deal with the OP.

I'll watch the video, on the condition that you explain HOW such a site hundreds of miles inland AND uphill in an era of lower sea levels -- meaning their coast was FURTHER OUT from today's -- was also supposed to be the fabled pro sea-farers' island in the ocean.

Ball beith in your court, go.

As I shared in another post.

During the African Humid Period there was a abundance of water. So much so there was a inland sea in the area,shallow and large. The area has very poor runoff which created this condition. The main port for the City was at Ajoujk. The area between that City and the coast was a natural bay that became filled in by the flood mud that created the underwater slide. This, is the mud referenced by Plato.

I have read a ancient account where the Ringed City is called "The City of Locks". Though, I have not located the exact location of these locks, might have been, but if one looks at the terrain and the ancient rivers, one might be able to fix their logical location.

That is how a sea fairing nation can exist so far inland, and up hill.

Possible ship swamped by mud, not able to sail. Stuck in the mud that was once a bay..

originally posted by: McGinty

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: McGinty
a reply to: Hanslune

Apart from Plato describing it as concentric circles and this formation being concentric circles

Yep and what size did he state, where did he state it was and what happened to it? You are only taking on one aspect of the story and ignoring the rest. How to you rationalize doing so?

Don't need to rationalise it, it's an opinion, not a statement of fact. I

ndeed other aspects don't fit Plato's tale, his rumour, his second, or third, or fourth hand information. But IMO since the ring aspect is so iconic and unique, as is the eye of africa, i'm willing to believe that by the time the tale reached Plato it had morphed somewhat, as tales do and misrepresented much of its content. Locations and events may well alter, but it's easy for me to accept a detail such as the rings might remaining.

Often in science we think we have the facts and then an observation comes along and we have to rethink it. IMO the rings and the eye are such an observation; too close, too unique and too coincidental to ignore.

Yeah except folks have been to that site and strangely enough there is no stone city there surrounded by cut out rings with canals to the sea.

originally posted by: bluesfreak

No it wasn't lying it was fiction crafting, i.e., writing a book to make a political point

Please prove this statement beyond any reasonable doubt to the forum .

Easy he made statement that are clearly - with evidence - not true - did Athens or Sais exist at that time? Nope, any evidence Atlantis exist? Nope, need I continue? Is it possible Atlantis existed? Yes (but then most things are possible), is it probable? Nope not at all? Is it plausible? No.

I have seen no evidence presented anywhere that proves this statement conclusively.
You are making a statement that you cannot prove and are placing yourself into the ‘belief’ category that you so despise.

No evidence - no evidence of Atlantis

Some say Solons tale is the recounting of a ‘truth’ (Plato states it is the truth) and others like yourself say it is not. Neither have any more credence than the other so stop pretending it’s a ‘done deal’ with Atlantis, as it really isn’t , despite your ‘belief’.

So, where is the evidence for Atlantis? I cannot 'prove' a negative.

Ps- please tell the forum just how many expeditions have been funded to explore , oh I don’t know, the Azores plateau actually LOOKING for evidence on the seabed that humans lived there ?

en.wikipedia.org...

Please explain the peer reviewed papers from 1947 that clearly show late Pleistocene shallow water fossils and shorelines around the area of the ‘Atlantis’ seamounts , proving, surprisingly to those involved that this area had been above water during the late Pleistocene, and that limestone cobbles had been weathered sub-aerially- ie in the air, not under water.

Pls link to that out of date paper please

Isostatic uplift and rebound are where your arguments fail spectacularly - sea level plotting around this area must take into account what happened to the sea bed after ice sheet melting on a triple plate junction that was affected from at least two joints as ice melted .

No idea what you are talking about see not above

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

This location is receiving a lot of flaming arrows, I wonder why......... Could it be, we are over the target???

Please consider, we could use the help..

Do you ever consider that you aren't the center of the world?

How would Harte and I know where Atlantis actually is? Think about it?

- if it actually existed?

If I knew where it was I would have had a spectacularly successful career as an archaeologist. ASE you need to tone the paranoia down a bit you are sounding really weird.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: Hanslune

@ approx. 12:20 into the video, the author references the Holocene volcano, Emi Koussi...and suggests that lava flows from a major eruption, dated to approx. 14-12k years ago (radiocarbon dating on diatom beds), are shown from satellite imagery to be disrupted by evidence of a major water flow which "blasted it's way through the Sahara"...towards the Richat Structure from the North and East...AFTER those earlier lava flows were deposited.

Yeah, so? You are suggesting a volcano 2400 kms away did something to the Richat? First you might want to find a scientific paper that supports what that guy is saying....

Okay provide the papers that show this waster deluge existing and doing what you claim.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: Hanslune

@ approx. 12:20 into the video, the author references the Holocene volcano, Emi Koussi...and suggests that lava flows from a major eruption, dated to approx. 14-12k years ago (radiocarbon dating on diatom beds), are shown from satellite imagery to be disrupted by evidence of a major water flow which "blasted it's way through the Sahara"...towards the Richat Structure from the North and East...AFTER those earlier lava flows were deposited.

Yeah, so? You are suggesting a volcano 2400 kms away did something to the Richat?

That is not at all what I suggested.
A sloppy response on your part.

Respectfully. If you are willing to invest any time or effort in a response...at least try to pay attention to that to which you're responding.

a reply to: 727Sky

based upon my research, there are few if any extant ancient Roman maps.

a reply to: Hanslune

This is what I say about Jimmy, well that’s the polite version.

Easy he made statement that are clearly - with evidence - not true - did Athens or Sais exist at that time? Nope, any evidence Atlantis exist? Nope, need I continue? Is it possible Atlantis existed? Yes (but then most things are possible), is it probable? Nope not at all? Is it plausible? No.

He’s plainly talking about proto Athenians , those that lived in those areas at that time . Same goes for Sais. He’s quite plainly talking about areas with the ‘modern’ (to them) names for ease of understanding . Surprised you can’t get that from the text .
Plato is talking about an island chain that is opposite the POH.
There is an island chain under the sea, called the mid Atlantic ridge .
Do take a minute to read up on isostatic adjustment then, if you don’t understand what I’m talking about .
Take a look at what might happen to the Azores if the euro plate and the North American plate adjust downwards as the ice melts from the northern hemisphere , lifting the northern sections .
It might have taken a thousand years of melt , isostatic adjustment , more weight on the sea floor with the melted icecaps , to trigger a sudden collapse .

Funny how guys like you like to believe Herodotus’ weird story of the Great Pyramid being built in 25 years ( one block every two minutes for 24 hours etc) when there is no other source for that story before him.
There’s even a weirder story by Al Masudi in the 8th century talking about them levitating stones with a ‘magic papyrus’ and metal rods that were struck against the stone, apparently there was a row either side of the stones of metal rods stuck into the ground .
Just as crazy as Herodotus if you ask me and just as much evidence .


a reply to: Hanslune

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

This location is receiving a lot of flaming arrows, I wonder why......... Could it be, we are over the target???

Please consider, we could use the help..

Do you ever consider that you aren't the center of the world?

How would Harte and I know where Atlantis actually is? Think about it?

- if it actually existed?

If I knew where it was I would have had a spectacularly successful career as an archaeologist. ASE you need to tone the paranoia down a bit you are sounding really weird.

Do you have Signorelli parapraxis often? Intentional, or otherwise?

Its so wonderful that you, without even giving it one thought, make my point, wonderfully.

How would Harte and I know where Atlantis actually is

Though in yours and Harty's case, it may not be Flaming Arrows, but, Flaming Swords...

Got ya cold.

No, its not I who believe I am the center of the world, it is you..

It is not I who am paranoid, it is you... Afraid of illegals trampling your grass?

Keep the Arrows coming, it speaks volumes....... And in time, even the blind will see....

a reply to: Hanslune

I'm not sure that after 10,000 years or so remains of anything are guaranteed. Are you? Who knows what fate might have befallen such a city and what might have happened to that location since

originally posted by: bluesfreak
There’s also this too. A declination of the bodies.

And what was the tale about, Critias? said Amynander. About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought to have been the most famous, but, through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors, it has not come down to us. Tell us, said the other, the whole story, and how and from whom Solon heard this veritable tradition. 'You Hellenes are ever children.' He replied:—In the Egyptian Delta, at the head of which the river Nile divides, there is a certain district which is called the district of Sais, and the great city of the district is also called Sais, and is the city from which King Amasis came. The citizens have a deity for their foundress; she is called in the Egyptian tongue Neith, and is asserted by them to be the same whom the Hellenes call Athene; they are great lovers of the Athenians, and say that they are in some way related to them. To this city came Solon, and was received [22] there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world—about Phoroneus, who is called 'the first man,' and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened. Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Phaëthon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals;

Your point is that the others listening to the tale found it fantastic and mind blowing . .

Personally , i don’t believe the Richat is Atlantis, - wrong place , way too large.
One thing we never see is a map where the sea level is that end of ice age 400 ft estimate lower, coupled with bathymetric data showing what the Mid Atlantic ridge would have looked like if it was a mile or more higher .
The triple plate junction is affected by what happens to it further north, like weighing scales . Canada has risen a mile or so since the weight of the ice sheets , Scotland by half a mile in some places I believe .
If one end rises, the other sinks. Two of the plates that join to the Azores were affected by isostatic rebound .
a reply to: Harte

No, the point is there aren't any others listening to the tale.
Every voice in it is Plato.
Plato said that Critias' tale was a way of transferring his previous fantasy society into the real world.

Harte

Did God catch them doing the Sodom and Gomorrah?

We all know what Sodom is but wtf is a gomorrah?

a reply to: Lysergic

I think I fought a couple of Gomorrah’s in a dungeon in the Legend of Zelda back in the day.

originally posted by: bluesfreak

Easy he made statement that are clearly - with evidence - not true - did Athens or Sais exist at that time? Nope, any evidence Atlantis exist? Nope, need I continue? Is it possible Atlantis existed? Yes (but then most things are possible), is it probable? Nope not at all? Is it plausible? No.

He’s plainly talking about proto Athenians , those that lived in those areas at that time . Same goes for Sais. He’s quite plainly talking about areas with the ‘modern’ (to them) names for ease of understanding . Surprised you can’t get that from the text .

As I've said to you before - maybe you should read what Plato wrote.
He specifically mentions the founding of Sais AND Athens.
Not "proto-Sais" or "proto-Athens."

Harte