On the use of lucid dreaming as a weapon of our informational warfare..

Hi ATS,

I've long been someone who experiences vivid & seemingly scripted dreaming, often these dreams can be prophetic in nature, whether they are small scope or more far reaching in their implications. On some occasions a small detail in my own day to day life is predicted, some advantage that I need to pay attention to. On other occasions, these dreams seem to refer to serious & large scale events, perhaps politics, terrorism, or limited military incursions afflicting the nation I hail from.

Recently I have begun to experience lucid dreaming more often - perhaps 5% of my nightly dreams are now fully lucid in nature, and it's quite striking that these lucid dreams often seem to benefit from a theme which frames the narrative which then develops as the dream progresses. For example, the dreams appear to be generally associated with the concept that the so-called Apocalypse is literally upon us, and that decisions that I & others make in the weeks, months & years to come, will greatly influence futures both personal & societal. In particular I have been struck by the suggestion of my dream life which indicates that supernatural abilities will become a literal reality, and highly impactful in the tapestry of history which is unfolding around us in our waking lives.

I have long suggested that organisations such as the World Economic Forum bear the guilt & the blame for the despair of our current situation, we are manipulated by forces so powerful that it seems we have no hope of a future which even remotely resembles the glories & freedoms of the past. 'They' clearly intend to depopulate; 'They' clearly intend for those who remain to breed less, to live like slaves in a system which has no respect for their individual life, their creativity, their inherent Soul. 'They' intend that we simply roll over & die, without a fight, without even a cry of anguish - simply to silently fall by the wayside, as they dance on triumphantly, laughing at the suffering of the underclass as they wink out of existence.

Is there anything that we can do as a society of friends, as those who recognise the inherent need & right of the human race to exist, to solve the world's problems not with death & persecution, but with ingenuity, creativity, innovation & the marvels of modern technology? And how do we begin to organise in a manner that systematises our resistance in a fully righteous & capable way? What recourse & resources do we possess which might help us to answer the question of how we fight back against a system of tyrants who believe in life & liberty only for the insanely wealthy, with all others doomed to quickly fade from this world, a problem left behind in a bygone age of weakness & frailty, as they march onward into their Brave New World Order...?

When I contemplate these questions, I find myself leaning towards a spiritual interpretation of our capacity for resistance & overcoming faith in our right to exist, before God & all Creation, with outrage at the way in which we are being erased from this world. We do not possess the political, governmental or corporate basis for resistance in any meaningful way - and so, we must start from our strength, which is our collective Soul. I believe that mechanisms such as lucid dreaming could present an opportunity to solidify & codify our resistance, with meaningful strength & direction coalescing from the Great Beyond, with our insight & cohesion as a collective spiritual force, with God leading the way as we seek a means of overcoming their tyranny. If we specify our prayers, if we focus in on the means of receiving spiritual guidance - which, historically, has always been the medium of dreams - our dreams will light up our lives & direct our strength & innate human potential. A civilisation can rise on the strength of a single dream, and wars have been won by the inspiration of a leader who manifests most clearly the accepted dream which serves to guide the realm in all its affairs. I believe we may have to get really, really serious about our dreams, to deliberately & determinedly focus in on the search for higher meaning, truth, guidance to enlighten & strengthen us, even to purify us in the face of a perverse enemy, an enemy that will stop at nothing to still the beating heart of the human race writ large.

They see us as an underclass of slaves to be worked to the bone for the benefit of their luxury; however, we are a spiritual force of nature when we combine our strengths, our passions & our determination. If we ably seek out direct inspiration, in the same way that prophets of old sought a word or a vision of the LORD Almighty, then we will find our slingshot, our means to be David in the face of the mockery & ignorance of Goliath, our enemy. As for my part, I have decided that I will adopt a single-minded focus on determining what gifts, what supernatural aid may come to us in our hour of need, which is surely upon us, as we face the censorship of the modern behemoth, public-private partnerships (rooted in a bizarre pseudo-communism, a seemingly left wing ideology of corporations & governments of the nations, coming together to preach peace, climate action & ever-increasing 'tolerance', among other tools designed to blot out the light of the human spirit). In fact they seem to carry an air of true fascism, though they try to hide it with their platitudes & virtue signalling. In truth, I believe that we face an evolved, nuanced form of fascism, that by comparison the fascism of the 1930'-1940's was more fundamentally honest, a natural extension of the science that was being explored in the decades immediately prior to its appearance. Don't get me wrong, I am not glorifying the fascism of the Second World War - but I am saying that it was more fundamentally honest, and that in the rank & file it was even humble as an expression of traditional values, though manipulated & taken to unfortunate extremes. In many ways the fascism we now face, under its obscuring banner of pseudo-communism, is a more creeping, insidious form of the philosophy, more perfidious, more to be feared, ever the more to be resisted. We face a global tide of this inherently deceptive worldview & its machinations, and if ever the human race had to pick a time to stand up in defence of the last flickering flames of freedom then that time is now - because before too long, 'They' will have acted in concert, in their worldwide trysts of persecution & infiltration of all that is good & holy in the governance of mankind, in order to stamp out the very last embers of freedom - and they are doing it as a wolf wearing the frozen, smiling mask of a grandmother who cares...

And so I ask you to join me - begin to use the universal tool of dreaming, lucidly, aware, expectant of a solution, or a raft of solutions, which will surely come to us if we approach this as a matter of the utmost priority, a matter in which we cannot afford to neglect the tools which are available to us in our quest for the information that could turn the tide of this warfare, our fight to retain freedom in the face of tyranny of the most destructive nature, creeping & silent as it is, obscured behind the parade of rainbows & handshakes in back rooms, behind the smiles of the wolf, behind the open secret that most are too blinded to see, even though it is out in the open, in their own words, recorded for the sake of posterity.

RISE, together.


FITO.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

My lucid dreams are my brain basically taking out the garbage. It has to do something because it never truly sleeps, poor creature. Could you imagine? No wonder it has to die eventually.

So, it hashes up some random scenarios based on influences and things it has identified and defined in my life; people, places, things, events. Then, they play out kinda like a role playing game where a scenario is unfolding and I have to react to what's going on. Looking for something I lost is pretty common, so is trying to escape from some sort of bad guy.

It'll throw curve balls like phones and computers not working, not being able to punch people who are attacking you (slow motion molasses punches, you know what im talking about), and evil antagonists who end up not being so powerful, despite being terrifying at the time. I always get away, never die, win, or hit the wake up button when all hope is lost.

I had one recently where I was going to jail for killing someone and would've got life in prison or the death penalty. Sounds bad, but it wasn't really my fault. The cops are a common bad guy in some of my dreams, must be from bad experience in my past. I had to hit the wake up button on that one, letting it play out would've definitely sucked. There's also a lot of work related parts of my dreams, it has to creep in there because it's stressful and I spend 8 hours there, 5 days a week.

Edit: If I thought about a bunch of "big ideas" all day like when I was younger and didn't work, my dreams would be weird scapes of big idea scenarios playing out. That'd be much more exciting and I do miss it. I digress, however, that dreams are a product of whats in your brain.

a reply to: Thrumbo

You raise some excellent points about the quixotic nature of our dreams, and the sorts of things that affect them, the frustrations (molasses punches are a real pain in the rear...) But I diverge from you in your opinion that the content of such dreams is entirely based upon/ limited to the workaday stuff that occupies our mind. From recent reading & some (admittedly limited) experience of lucid dreaming, I believe there is more than a little power available to be had by tapping into our dreams. I tend to dream vividly every night, but usually the dreams - which can last for hours - are scripted like the plot of a Never Ending Story, rather than straightforwardly lucid - so that I'm not just dreaming 'a dream', I'm engaging with the continuation of my evolving dreamscape 'grand narrative', which is to say, someone has been speaking to me in my sleep, telling me a tale of mystery & intrigue, for a total of thirty five years to date.

The dreams always build on one another, and they are frequently delivered out of sequence, so it takes me eighteen years to finally understand the mystery of what was revealed to me when I was five years old, for example. If I had to describe the overarching theme of the past thirty five years of nightly travels, I'd say that someone has been weaving an apocalypse, a frieze which, when viewed as a whole, tells the tale of what happens when Justice is finally laid out for all the world to see, when all the scales are balanced, when everyone unashamedly evil receives their dues, when the righteous & downtrodden are vindicated & uplifted, when God steps into the picture & flips the narrative, when angels walk with men & women everywhere, when the Thunder sings, when glory rests upon the Mountain & those who seek after Truth will find their succour & sheath their swords at the final call.

Yes, these are grand, sweeping ideas, and I feel privileged to have been exposed to their grandeur. You may not know, but I have a disability which leaves me in constant, unrelenting, frequently severe pain - it affects my whole body, in nerves, joints & muscles, and it is variable day by day in that I never know what symptoms I will face - lower back, sciatica, left shoulder, both hands, left hip, and so on. This has led me to be incapable of holding down a normal job, I'm on a ton of medications & I'm potentially going to be in receipt of a couple of new treatment options in the not-too-distant future, after years of being told there is nothing that can be done to alleviate the impact of my condition. The side effect of all of this is that yes, I have extra time in which to think, to read, to reflect, to meditate/pray, and I believe that none of it has been an accident. God has utilised my condition to keep me humble, to increase my compassion, to increase my anger at injustice wherever it is found, and so on. Has He also used it to position me so that I'm a suitable vessel to receive the dream narrative which has enlightened my mind these past few decades? Quite possibly so. As I say, I feel privileged to have received the wealth of information & insight that is the upshot of these nightly travails. But it's not just sunshine & rainbows - I frequently experience horrendous, harrowing nightmares that I cannot wake up from - to the point of experiencing severe torture over the course of an hour or more - being stabbed repeatedly with 'real' knives by real monsters, generative of real, acute pain at a severe level (and I'm no stranger to pain, so I'm not exagerrating).

Why has this happened? To ensure that I am unapologetically & painfully aware that Humanity has an Enemy which is intelligent, organised, ruthless & without remorse. So I know what we're facing as a people, as a world - and it's NOT just rich perverts who intend to rule over us plebeans. I believe that all of this serves a purpose, and the dreams are CRITICAL to our potential for success - because they demonstrate a layer of Reality, and a God concerned with our fate, ordinarily obfuscated, yet ultimately far more powerful than the fools at the World Economic Forum could ever hope to become or even understand. I believe God stands with us at the brink of a new beginning, and that He will enable us, empower us, to draw on abilities & forces which no mortal mind has ever (in living memory) encountered or actuated within themselves. Time is marching on, and so should we be - and it begins with our dreams; the understated, occulted power source which can act as the channel for God to flow into our world in ways that are rare indeed, if ever seen before by human eyes ("These, and even greater things shall ye do in my name").

At this time we face an unparalleled threat to the life, liberty & enduring wellbeing of all peoples, as we witness not just regular injustice, but the deliberate nosediving of Western society, the willful enforcement of the suicide of an entire hemisphere, for the sake of the preservation at extreme standing of wealth & power of a relative handful of tyrants dreaming maniacally of the depopulation & subjugation of the entire world at their feet. God is calling us to battle, indeed, to a campaign of warfare, and I sincerely believe that the only weapon powerful enough to turn the tide, is the humblest & yet the most mysterious of human experiences, the dream in the night. Every prophet served God by dreaming the answers to the questions of sincere seekers - and God is poised ready to answer our prayers in this manner once more in mighty power, of this I am convinced.

It could be no other way, when a whole world faces a threat of such monstrous proportions.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

it begins with our dreams; the understated, occulted power source which can act as the channel for God to flow into our world in ways that are rare indeed, if ever seen before by human eyes ("These, and even greater things shall ye do in my name").

I don't think I have am able to do "lucid dreaming" anymore - even when I could, it was very rare - so, I'm not sure whether I would have a 'part' in the spiritual warfare as you envision...

...but, what you've written does seem rather valid to me, and I was struck by the quoted section above, because for years, I have had such a strong feeling (like intuition) that there is something God 'needs' humans to do 'in order for Him to be empowered' to intervene in this world.

And I think you are correct that time is growing short, because it seems to me that the powers of evil are becoming stronger...
...at times it almost feels as if there's a spiritual pollution sort of blocking out the 'Light of God'.

And I will just say - as a down to Earth, 59 year old wife & mother - I never would have thought that I would be even thinking such 'concepts' as above, let alone writing them out on the internet, but stranger things have happened..

I've always had extremely vivid dreams, good, bad and mundane. Occasionally, when I was younger, I'd have prophetic dreams which was frustrating as I couldn't change anything. I've never tried lucid dreaming though. I'll give it a shot and I think your hypothesis is intriguing!

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
... In fact they seem to carry an air of true fascism, though they try to hide it with their platitudes & virtue signalling. In truth, I believe that we face an evolved, nuanced form of fascism, that by comparison the fascism of the 1930'-1940's was more fundamentally honest, a natural extension of the science that was being explored in the decades immediately prior to its appearance. Don't get me wrong, I am not glorifying the fascism of the Second World War - but I am saying that it was more fundamentally honest, and that in the rank & file it was even humble as an expression of traditional values, though manipulated & taken to unfortunate extremes.

Sure sounds like you're trying to say something positive about fascism. History testifies to the fact that fascist regimes have been anything but "fundamentally honest" though. Propaganda (a form of deception and spreading falsehoods) has been one of their main tools to manipulate the people they govern and ensure their obedience and worship of the state. Most of it nationalistic propaganda.

Fascism: Government by dictatorship, marked by State control of the economy, social regimentation, and an ideology of belligerent nationalism; Nazism: Fascism as practiced by the National Socialist German Workers’ Party under Hitler.

The word “Fascism” generally conjures up images of black-shirted Italian military squads and of swastika-bearing, brown-uniformed German storm troopers. But other countries have had their experiences with Fascism too.

During the 1930’s, Fascism gained prominence in Hungary, Romania, and Japan. During the Spanish Civil War, Fascist support helped Francisco Franco gain control of Spain, although most historians do not view Franco’s dictatorship (1939-75) as having been genuinely Fascist in nature. The Argentine dictatorship established by Juan D. Perón (1943-55), on the other hand, was.

Worshiping the State

“Fascism” comes from the Italian word fascio and refers to an ancient Roman symbol of authority. Called fasces in Latin, it was a bundle of rods from which the blade of an ax projected, an apt symbol of the unity of the people under the supreme authority of the State.

Although some of the roots of Fascism go back to the time of Niccolò Machiavelli, not until 1919, or 450 years after that one’s birth, did Benito Mussolini use the word for the first time. The political corruption of his day, Machiavelli claimed, could only be overcome by an authoritarian ruler, one who would exercise power ruthlessly but with prudence.

A Fascist government needs just such a strong, opportunistic, and charismatic leader if it is to be effective. Appropriately, both Mussolini and Hitler were known simply as “the leader”​—Il Duce and der Führer.

Fascism elevates the State above all other authority, both religious and civil. French jurist Jean Bodin of the 16th century, English philosopher Thomas Hobbes of the 17th, as well as 18th- and 19th-century German philosophers Johann Gottlieb Fichte, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, and Heinrich von Treitschke, all glorified the State. Hegel taught that the State occupies a position of supremacy and that the individual’s supreme duty is to be its loyal supporter.

By their very nature, all governments must exercise authority. But Fascist states are designed to exercise it to the utmost, demanding blind obedience. Viewing humans as little more than slaves of the State, Treitschke said: “It does not matter what you think, so long as you obey.” Typically, Fascism replaced the cry, “Liberty, equality, fraternity,” heard during the French Revolution, with the Italian slogan, “To believe, to obey, to fight.”

Fascism Glorifies War

To fight? Yes! “War alone brings up to their highest tension all human energies and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have the courage to meet it,” Mussolini once said, adding: “War is to the man what maternity is to the woman.” He called perpetual peace “depressing and a negation of all the fundamental virtues of man.” In saying these words, Mussolini was simply mirroring the views of Treitschke, who contended that war was a necessity and that banishing it from the world, besides being profoundly immoral, “would involve the atrophy of many of the essential and sublime forces of the human soul.”

Against this background of war and dictatorship, we may not be surprised to learn that many historians trace the beginning of modern Fascism back to Napoléon I of France. Dictator during the early 1800’s, he was admittedly no Fascist himself. Nevertheless, many of his policies, such as the establishment of a secret-police system and the skillful use of propaganda and censorship to control the press, were later adopted by the Fascists. And certainly his determination to restore the glory of France is typical of the obsession with national greatness for which Fascist leaders have become known.

By 1922 the Fascists in Italy were powerful enough to install Mussolini as prime minister, a position he quickly used as a stepping-stone to being a dictator. As far as wages, hours, and production goals were concerned, privately owned industry was subjected to rigid government control. In fact, private enterprise was encouraged only to the extent that it served government interests. Political parties other than the Fascist were outlawed; labor unions were banned. The government skillfully controlled the media, silencing opposers by means of censorship. Special attention was given to indoctrinating the young, and personal liberty was seriously curtailed.

Fascism, German Style

“Despite the coincidence of their paths to power,” says the book Fascism, by A. Cassels, “Italian Fascism and German Nazism were markedly different in temperament and in their vision of the future.”

Besides the aforementioned German philosophers who served as forerunners of Fascist thought, others, like 19th-century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, helped create a brand of Fascism uniquely German. Not that Nietzsche was a Fascist, but he did call for a ruling elite, a race of supermen. In doing so, however, he had no one race or nation in mind, least of all the Germans, for whom he had no particular liking. But some of his ideas were close to what National Socialist ideologists considered ideally German. So these ideas were appropriated, while others, not agreeing with Nazi doctrine, were discarded.

Hitler was also strongly influenced by German composer Richard Wagner. Extremely nationalistic and patriotic, Wagner viewed Germany as destined to perform a great mission in the world. “For Hitler and Nazi ideologists Wagner was the perfect hero,” says the Encyclopedia of the Third Reich. It explains: “The composer epitomized Germany’s greatness. In Hitler’s view Wagner’s music justified German nationalism.”

Author William L. Shirer adds: “It was not his [Wagner’s] political writings, however, but his towering operas, recalling so vividly the world of German antiquity with its heroic myths, its fighting pagan gods and heroes, its demons and dragons, its blood feuds and primitive tribal codes, its sense of destiny, of the splendor of love and life and the nobility of death, which inspired the myths of modern Germany and gave it a Germanic Weltanschauung [world view] which Hitler and the Nazis, with some justification, took over as their own.”

The thinking of both Nietzsche and Wagner was shaped by Comte Joseph Arthur de Gobineau, French diplomat and ethnologist, who, between 1853 and 1855, wrote Essai sur l’inégalité des races humaines (Essay on the Inequality of Human Races). He argued that racial composition determines the fate of civilizations. Diluting the racial character of Aryan societies would ultimately lead to their downfall, he warned.

The racism and anti-Semitism that developed from these ideas were characteristic of German-style Fascism. Both policies were less significant in Italy. In fact, evidences of anti-Semitism in Italy were considered by many Italians to be an indication that Hitler was replacing Mussolini as the dominating force behind Fascism. Indeed, as time passed, Hitler’s influence on the policies of Italian Fascism grew.

In striving to achieve national greatness, Italian Fascism and German Fascism looked in opposite directions. Author A. Cassels explains that “where Mussolini might exhort his countrymen to emulate the deeds of the ancient Romans, the Nazi revolution of the spirit aimed at inciting the Germans, not only to do what the distant Teutonic giants had done, but also to be those same tribal heroes reincarnated in the twentieth century.” In other words, Italian Fascism sought to regain bygone glory, as it were, by dragging Italy, an industrially underdeveloped land, into the 20th century. Germany, on the other hand, sought to regain former glory by retreating into a mythical past.

What Made It Possible

In most countries, Fascists have come to power after a national disaster, an economic collapse, or a military defeat. This was true in both Italy and Germany. Although on opposing sides during World War I, they both emerged from the struggle greatly weakened. Nationalist discontent, economic dislocation, and an intensification of the class war plagued both countries. Germany experienced runaway inflation, and unemployment soared. The democratic principle was also weak, still hampered by the military and authoritarian tradition of Prussia. And everywhere loomed the specter of the feared Soviet Bolshevism.

Charles Darwin’s idea of evolution and natural selection was another significant factor in the rise of Fascism. The book The Columbia History of the World speaks about the “reawakening of Social Darwinism in the ideologies of the Fascists, expressed both by Mussolini and by Hitler.”

The Encyclopedia of the Third Reich agrees with this appraisal, explaining that social Darwinism was “the ideology behind Hitler’s policy of genocide.” In harmony with the teachings of Darwinian evolution, “German ideologists argued that the modern state, instead of devoting its energy to protecting the weak, should reject its inferior population in favor of the strong, healthy elements.” They argued that war is normal in the struggle for survival of the fittest, that “victory goes to the strong, and the weak must be eliminated.”

Has the Lesson Been Learned?

The days of black-shirted Italian military squads and of swastika-bearing, brown-uniformed German storm troopers are over. Yet vestiges of Fascism still remain. In 1988 Newsweek magazine warned that in practically every Western European nation, “the forces of the far right are proving once again that barely disguised racism and an appeal to nationalistic and authoritarian values can still gather surprising support.” No doubt one of the most dynamic of these movements is Jean-Marie Le Pen’s National Front in France with a message basically “the same as that of National Socialism.”

Is it sensible to place trust in neo-Fascist movements? Do the roots of Fascism​—Darwinian evolution, racism, militarism, and nationalism—​form a sound foundation upon which to base good government? Or would you not agree that like all other kinds of human rule, Fascism has been weighed in the balances and found wanting? (Dan 5:27)

Fascism​—Is Its Foundation Sound?

Darwinian Evolution: “An increasing number of scientists, most particularly a growing number of evolutionists . . . argue that Darwinian evolutionary theory is no genuine scientific theory at all.”​—New Scientist, June 25, 1981, Michael Ruse.

Racism: “The chasm between human races and peoples, where it exists, is psychological and sociological; it is not genetic!”​—Genes and the Man, Professor Bentley Glass.

“Human beings of all races are . . . descended from the same first man.”​—Heredity and Humans, science writer Amram Scheinfeld.

Militarism: “The ingenuity, labor, and treasure poured out on this . . . insanity truly stun the mind. If nations did not learn war any more, there would be nothing mankind could not do.”​—American author and Pulitzer prize winner Herman Wouk.

Nationalism: “Nationalism divides humanity into mutually intolerant units. As a result, people think as Americans, Russians, Chinese, Egyptians or Peruvians first, and human beings second​—if at all.”​—Conflict and Cooperation Among Nations, Ivo Duchacek.

“So many of the problems that we face today are due to, or the result of, false attitudes​—some of them have been adopted almost unconsciously. Among these is the concept of narrow nationalism​—‘my country, right or wrong.’”​—Former UN Secretary-General U Thant.

a reply to: whereislogic

I totally understand your point (which you made to an abundance of clarity by copy/ pasting a direct quote from somewhere, it seems?)

However, please understand that I simply misrepresented my thoughts somewhat in error, and was not seeking to mislead, neither did I somehow try to reduce the blame of Naziism for being generative of evil actions & beliefs during/ after the war, or the system of political philosophy we know as fascism more generally.

When I said that early fascism was more fundamentally honest than the malaise we presently face, and described humble family values perverted (manipulated & taken to unfortunate extremes), I meant exactly what I said & I was not putting forth or omitting any personal bias or favour for fascism in any form, though I certainly should have expounded upon exactly what I meant.

You will note that I said that fascism was largely an evolution of the science which had been developing in the decades before it arose in Germany in the 1930's. What I left unsaid, which I now realise was the crux of the matter & should have been emphasised as it was not obvious to anyone reading my words in the OP, is my own extensive understanding of that which had transpired in Germany since the late 1800's.

There had been a trend developing apace & at breakneck speed, of the whole genetic fitness/ superiority of refined breeding, in the biological sciences (eugenics, which is & always was repugnant - but it was hardly a German or purely historical phenomenon, as the modern 'science' of bioethics is nothing other than eugenics renamed in a post-war PR exercise). There was a concurrent massive push for mental hygiene in psychology/psychiatry. In archaeology there was a vast amount of work being done in examining & unmasking the ancient textual sources of the Babylonians, the Assyrians & the Sumerians, which was pushing accepted history back ever further, and many of the myths of the Bible were being shown to be copies or very similar versions of earlier myths from those cultures I've mentioned. Furthermore, and although not a science, it was certainly a huge trend affecting the spirituality of the elites, we have the occultism of the Thule Gesellschaft, and organisations such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which boasted the British weirdo Aleister Crowley as one of its main proponents. In tandem with archaeological outworkings, this was providing a place for elitist spiritual seekers to dive into an alternative spirituality which was twisted into a racial superiority mindset that married up with the eugenics 'science' of the day, filling the void which a growing loss of faith in the Bible & traditional Christian tradition had led to, which later spread & infected the masses as they followed the cultural biases of the day.

All of these factors basically meant that the development of the peculiar form of fascism expressed in Nazi Germany was a situation which the majority of Germans fell into very rapidly, following along with the blitzkrieg of propaganda designed by the elitists & academics who had been heavily into the trends I have elucidated above.. Those ordinary Germans are the ones I describe as fundamentally honest & humble, family values people. The propaganda was tailored specifically to indoctrinate GOOD PEOPLE, because like it or not the ordinary Germans didn't just suddenly become evil - the whole thing, root & branch, was a phenomenon of immense complexity reduced within a short window of time to produce a very niche outworking in the national psychology of both the elites & the people who followed what their bosses had to say.

At the top, there certainly was a core of supremely vile, evil people, and in no way would I ever have intended to represent that these people were in any way innocent of the blame for the Second World War, or the despicable actions which the SS & other elite cadres were responsible for. And of course at every level of society in every nation are the opportunistic brutes who will glory in violence for its own sake, and they too are in no way innocent of blame for their actions..

But I don't blame the fundamentally decent, honest German people for that. And neither do I blame them (or even the elites) for World War One, because that was a family feud between very spoiled Royals in several nations.

So in light of this specific post, I hope you will agree that I simply forgot to explain the backdrop of why I had chosen to word my OP as I did. It was a silly oversight, not an indicator of secret fascist leanings. I am a moderate conservative, a libertarian, and I do not support fascism as a political philosophy - neither do I have any stock in eugenics, or Aryan occultism. I'm a solid, ordinary Christian from the United Kingdom, I am fundamentally honest in everything I say & do, on point of principle. I adhere to the Golden Rule, I wish harm upon none (though I believe in the right to self-defence in warfare) & I would never willfully misrepresent the views that I hold. I hope you are suitably reassured.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

And so I ask you to join me

I suspect we don't dream the same dreams, I highly suspect it's based on our 'conflicting' beliefs. So ai hope my reply doesn't come across as negative or sarcastic... It's genuinely not my intent.

I'll start with freedoms of old. I'm English so the best way to describe is from a Britannic POV. This land has had waves of newcomers with new dreams and different minds, the first destroyed the forests but the history I truly know is the waves of the Christians that acquired holy sites via building upon them, they rerouted rivers and water ways, enclosed the fields and to this day 'privatised' and secluded huge swathes of this land. During the last 1000 years they've absolutely reimagined these green isles. That's their effects on the land.

They had an effect on the people too, a serious effect which I'll happily leave out for today.

Now we have the modern world where people still think their dreams are somehow more sacred or correct than anyone else's, they claim enemies and friends and suspect they may have brothers and sisters who'd stand to arms when the great unified beast comes to encompass us all...

Yet my dreams? They tell me my ancestors have seen this before and we'll do it again. Tired they may be but destroyed despite all the efforts against them, their ways and their land? Hardly... Despite the best efforts of many.

This might be everyone's fight you're alluding to yet I can honestly say I'm unaware of which side of the line I'll be. I love Christians but they have a fundamental believe in the end times. I don't and neither do my dreams or the gifts and memories I've acquired. Depending on how others react depends on how some will attack.

From my vantage point I see a lot of potential enemies but very few allies. My mind says wait and see. If I need to fight I'll be aiming to pick off the biggest and the baddest left. I aim to preserve things beyond our individual little dreams.

The collective dreams? Some of us dream of very different things and the warning signs? They say what's left will thrive.

RISE, together.

May the road rise with you, hopefully our paths can cross and we can walk together. My path is muddy... Is yours cobbled?

a reply to: RAY1990

You know, I totally 'get' what you're saying...
...but you do realize that a huge amount of 'harms' you describe was done to the lands and peoples of Great Britain by the Norse invaders, and Vikings were 'definitely not' Christians!

And of course, long before the Vikings - the Romans (before Christianity existed!) invaded, gutted a lot of the forests in order to drive out the Druids, and also did much of the 'corralling of lands and rerouting of waters' you describe, not to mention enslaving the local 'Brits'...

It's very important to refrain from believing 'history' as current media/culture portray it, and do the research yourself...and the same goes for Christianity as well -

- yes, there are 'unsavory' aspects (and actions) to a lot of it's history, but the Faith in and of itself is not to blame for what various peoples and Rulers/governments (or 'classes' such as the Nobility) who subscribed to that Faith have done thru time.

Also, most of the world's religions have some form of 'End Times' beliefs, as well as belief in spiritual warfare between Good and evil 'forces' - it is not at all just a 'Christian thing'!

Look up Ragnarok - that would be the one some of your Anglo-Saxon ancestors probably believed in.

My point is - no matter what your spiritual 'beliefs', if any - all people who appreciate the beauty of this world and her children, have enemies in common...

...and thus, we should 'rise together' (in spirit if nothing else) to oppose those enemies.

p.s. you do realize that the author of the OP is also British?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Something I forgot -
FITO - I've sent you a PM

a reply to: lostgirl

It's very important to refrain from believing 'history' as current media/culture portray it, and do the research yourself...and the same goes for Christianity as well -

I agree I don't think I'll ever stop researching history, a theme I often see is people and culture often come to similar conclusions despite wildly different paths, I'm still trying to prove myself wrong...

And of course, long before the Vikings - the Romans (before Christianity existed!) invaded, gutted a lot of the forests in order to drive out the Druids, and also did much of the 'corralling of lands and rerouting of waters' you describe, not to mention enslaving the local 'Brits'...

The Romans did some damage but historically the clearing of forests goes much further back, I've never looked at a definitive date although I'd guess it started around the time Beaker people arrived here.

You know, I totally 'get' what you're saying...
...but you do realize that a huge amount of 'harms' you describe was done to the lands and peoples of Great Britain by the Norse invaders, and Vikings were 'definitely not' Christians!

The Vikings were raiders and pirates, it's what the name means and the evils (if you want duality) of the past are well represented by all peoples those days, the culture and history that spawned Norse society had strong links with the British isles. Archeologically speaking there seems to be links back and forth between Scandinavia and the British isles that go back upto 4000 years maybe longer. I can get some links if you're interested...

Point being the Vikings coming over was probably more of a homecoming if you wish to think of it abstractly. In terms of language and evolution it all spawns from Proto-Indo-European linguistics.

yes, there are 'unsavory' aspects (and actions) to a lot of it's history, but the Faith in and of itself is not to blame for what various peoples and Rulers/governments (or 'classes' such as the Nobility) who subscribed to that Faith have done thru time.

I find that too, I even find Christian architecture beautiful too yet I can't shake the feeling those buildings do more than look pretty and inspire better ways of life.

Practicing Christians are pretty awesome on a day to day basis, I've known a few and still do.

Also, most of the world's religions have some form of 'End Times' beliefs, as well as belief in spiritual warfare between Good and evil 'forces' - it is not at all just a 'Christian thing'!

There's plenty of stories of better god's intervening on a nutty war god high on mightiness too, there's stories within stories and stories that crossed time and space... They've been repeated through the lands, tongues and even the pages of time. I have to thank Christian scribes for the latter one!

The definition of end times somewhat varies when it comes to the older stories. In Ragnarok there's a rebirth. I do wonder if we see things through the lense of our faiths...

...and thus, we should 'rise together' (in spirit if nothing else) to oppose those enemies.

I'm with you in spirit, the word rise reminded me of a Public Image song of the same name that I somewhat quoted. I'll quote it again and say "anger is an energy" I did say I didn't mean for my post to be negative, I feel I failed at that.

I do realise the OP is British, I've read a few of their threads and value his/her opinion. I'm sure everyone's compass points the same way if we stand in the same spot, to speak metaphorically.