Ukraine did in fact ban the Russian language in schools.

originally posted by: merka
Food for thought, do you think this would still have happened if Russia had focused on maintaining friendly relations with Ukraine, rather than Russia declaring war on Ukraine by invading and annexing Crimea in 2014?

I mean the Canadian scenario isnt the same unless we assume that the French already invaded Quebec and annexed part of it while declaring that Canada is a fake state and that they will nuke them if they dont go away from all their French land.

Or maybe the Canadians would just say we're sorry and live happily with their new French overlords.

Food for thought, do you think this would still have happened if Russia had focused on maintaining friendly relations with Ukraine

Here is a food for thought maybe just maybe the US/UK using countries agaisnt Russia and instated encouraged friendly relations with Russia instated?

Maybe just maybe instated of sending those "elected representatives" to countries and demand regime changes or installed Pro American governments or those countries that would be friendly to US/Elitists Agenda.

Maybe if only those "elected representatives"

Would spend so much more time on the failing infrastructures and broken health care systems? in their home back yards instated of pulling this dominance game?

a reply to: vNex92


So still no evidence?

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

Have any evidence for that long running russian propaganda?

Just people I have talked to locally that are from that part of the world. As for trying to make any sense of what is going on around the internet about this, gonna take a lot of work sorting out the facts from the fiction with how information is used as a weapon during times of war.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

Have any evidence for that long running russian propaganda?

Just people I have talked to locally that are from that part of the world. As for trying to make any sense of what is going on around the internet about this, gonna take a lot of work sorting out the facts from the fiction with how information is used as a weapon during times of war.

Ah, so the 'opinion' of someone you know that are actually from that part of the world. Still not 'evidence', but getting closer.


Do any of them have any evidence?

Can they point us to a local newspaper where something might have been published about it?

Or maybe point us to this so far imaginary law?





Not trying to pick on you, I'm actually seeking some kind of evidence to get past the propaganda and opinions on this.

Out of personal curiosity, cuz it still wouldn't have been any of russia's business.

Or justify 2 invasions.

Or threats to nuke the planet.

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

Well done in waiting for some evidence before jumping to conclusions. I did manage to find some current Ukrainian legislation around this issue:

On Principles of the State Language Policy

As for how this document has changed over the years, Wikipedia has a brief view on some of its turning points.

Language policy in Ukraine

As for how this played out on the ground, I guess you just had to be there to really know. With how many of these culture clashes go on around the world, have heard some rough stories. When checking this out, one thing I did not know before was Martial law was called in Ukraine in 2018 for 30 days. Same conflict.

Big deal. They teach in English in the southern Texas border towns despite most of the population being Spanish speaking. Assimilate or vacate

a reply to: kwakakev


Thank you, I found the 'evidence' I was looking for in citation 15 on your 2nd link, which clearly states the 2012 law was never repealed and was still in force from 2012 to 2018.

russia invaded Ukraine using this propaganda in 2014, and apparently this propaganda was not true, according to your source.

Not that it would be any of russia's business or justification for invasion anyway.

a reply to: WeDemBoyz


Exactly.

Plus it was just fake russian propaganda anyway.

Their own source just 'proved' it.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

I think you are missing the larger point. This is more equal to the USA saying that English is the national language, then Mexico siezing Florida, arming spanish speakers in Arizona and Southern California who then turn around and stir crap up, which results in the USA sending troops in and declaring martial law, which then mexico sends "Volunteers" in to fight the military, which the Volunteers are better equiped then the Army. (If the USA army were weak). Then after years of fighting, the USA trying to go in, resulting in Mexico sending a Special Force to help take it, Push all the way to Washington DC and Florida, before going back and taking Texas, Arizona, and California, then holding a referendum which those areas join, while the USA manages to take back California, some of Arizona, and Some of Texas.

Here is the question though. If Mexico would have "Annexed" Florida, because most spoke spanish there, then launched the attack on Cali, Arizona, and Texas, how well would the USA react to this. How do you think they would treat spanish speakers?

Further, the question is, why are these Russian speakers so keen on spreading Russia? Could it be because the USSR back 30 years and before spread Russians all over the USSR? Which as a result creates pockets of Russians in all these areas the create issues through Eastern Europe? If those people want to be Russian so badly, Russia is a huge nation, largest in the world, why not just move to russia and be russia? what you like having western culture? then why aren't you integrating then? This isn't just a now issue after all. For 50 years, the world was bi-polar with the USSR doing whatever it likes, and the vassal states dealing with it. Eastern Europe lived under that, and they remember. They don't like being second class citizens in Russia, why would they, when they can be regular citizens in their OWN country. Read the history of USSR, how they starved the Ukrainians, the Poles, how they absorbed Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia, how those that did not follow were punished. These countries DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF RUSSIA. They will never again want it, because the Russian "Help" was nothing but BS. They want to live in peace, grow and prosper. As long as Russia isn't acting like a tool, they will work with them, now, well there not interested. Europe isn't interested, and Ukraine, definitely isn't interested. They want there land back, and they want the Russians out so they can never again cause issues, and that includes joining NATO and the EU. They would rather deal with EU stupidity than having a Russian boot on there neck.

Camain

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

I would handle with care using Wikipedia as a sole source. It does ok on technical matters, as for political issues it does have a bias. As a starting point you could do worst, but as for the full picture warts and all it is going to take more work.

On the surface it looks like these cultural issues have been brewing for a while, a lot of tensions on both sides of the debate of language policy. For one side of a nation to be degenerated due to their culture is what apartheid is about.

I am thankful to live in a nation where there is one main language. While we do not always agree, being able to communicate clearly does make a big difference in working together. I know other parts of the world are not like this with many different dialects and local variations, some problems over misunderstandings. People that can translate are respected positions.

As for what is going on in Ukraine, looks like piggy in the middle.

a reply to: kwakakev

The percentage of native English-speakers in the US is only about 10% higher than the percentage of native Ukrainian speakers in Ukraine. Both are in the clear majority for their respective countries.

ETA: Furthermore, Ukraine has around 40 recognized minority languages or dialects. The US has around 350.

a reply to: kwakakev


It wasn't my 'source', and wiki citations were to proper authoritative sources such as Ukraine's main newspaper and their highest court.

Until someone can find any evidence to the contrary, this OP has been thoroughly debunked.

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

If find it safer in your bunker as these information bombs are going off, that's fine. If you really want to know what it is like there, go check out some Ukrainian community club, sure they will have lots of stories. Even one of its neighbors like Poland if you cannot find one will have some reports of what it has been like there.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

If find it safer in your bunker as these information bombs are going off, that's fine. If you really want to know what it is like there, go check out some Ukrainian community club, sure they will have lots of stories. Even one of its neighbors like Poland if you cannot find one will have some reports of what it has been like there.

I'be seen plenty of opinions and propaganda, they don't interest me.

Facts do.

And the fact is that what OP claimed is not true.

Ukraine did not rule the law unconstitutional until 2018, according to their own sources, and no other sources have been provided to the contrary.

Not too few, not discredited, none.




I'll gladly look through any source that you think might contain actual evidence to the contrary, but since none have been provided.... debunked it is.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

It's exactly like the Canadian example I gave. These are Ukrainian citizens they were denying their language from, not Russian citizens. UKRAINIAN. Ukraine doesn't allow its citizens to have dual citizenship from ANY OTHER COUNTRY. They denied their own citizens to speak their fluent language that they have been using for hundreds of years.

Crimeans wanted out of Ukraine and they are happy under Russia...

Russia never invaded Crimea they've always had army base their and their navy as well.

So there is so much wrong with this simple post I don't know where to start....

1. Speaking Russian was not banned, they just made the official language Ukrainian, deal with it.
2. Many countries do the same with not allowing dual citizenship.
3. They been speaking Russian for 100 years because Russia invaded them, killed them, forced them to speak Russian...lol

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher
a reply to: MisguidedAngel


So you weren't able to find any of those imaginary laws that existed before russia invaded Ukraine?


This is my surprised face:

Strange things happen in the countries you go land grabbing in, they tend to HATE everything about you.


Perhaps putin should have considered that before repeatedly invading Ukraine.




Need a few more days to find some 'evidence' for what you so boldly claimed?

How was the game?

Need more time?

I told you it was after the coup the Poroshenko government started adding anti Russian laws. You called it Russian propaganda and lies and you were wrong. Russia didn't invade till this year, keep playing your games, you were proven wrong.

Ukraine banned Ukrainian children to be taught in Russian at school even when it's their fluent language and in many cases their only language, which is only hurting little kids that are totally innocent but this is what Ukraine does and this is why they are separating.

Poroshenko (Ukrainian President) famously said "our kids can go to school, their kids (speaking of Ukrainian children living in Donbass) can go hide in a bomb shelter"

You are still using this picture where illiterate children are used for propaganda. These kids have no idea what they are being used for. This is
very contrary to good manners and very much unethical.

This same image is used by you in this thread too LINK

So are you pointing out of your lousy manners here and nothing is holy to you ? Or is this the typical for your nation ? .. So if we judge this kind of propaganda are we having russophobia ?

Edit to add
This image was first posted online by RUSSIAN artist yakovdedyk in deviantart and his account in there has been removed you might get a clue why.

yakovdedyk.deviantart.com
art/save-donbass-from-ukraine-army-457813802 - First found on Jun 10, 2014

This brings the questions. Where were this photo first taken .. russian artist.. propably and most likely in Russia. Were these kids exploited ? propably so.