Man Sucker-Punches Another At Chicago Liquor Store, Victim Shoots Him Dead

a reply to: JIMC5499

most criminals cant hit the side of a barn, all i need is 1.

if i shoot someone im going for a cranial hit so they cant get back up.



if you are witnessing an attempted MURDER, smoke the MOFO

a reply to: medusaseyes1984

I can't say that. I'll shoot center mass every time. Larger target, doesn't move as fast, I shoot a 9mm so the slug will stay in the body.

Head shot, too many chances to miss. Every situation is different. I've pulled a weapon a few times, never fired it. The only time I've shot back was from a helicopter at night, even then I was shooting at muzzle flashes to provide cover and suppression.

As far as "criminal's accuracy" goes, I've never been too worried about the bullet with your name on it. It's the ones addressed to "to who it may concern" that bother me.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
Yeah, shooter is going to be effed in court.
He was already out the door and turned back to shoot him.
Retaliation, not defense.
Not that he didn't deserve it, he hit him in the head from behind.

Agreed, this was not self defense, the guy who shot the assailant is totally f'ed. Going to spend many years in jail for that retaliation. He was no longer in threat, he was just pissed he got suckered. Had the guy advanced on him again, he would have then been 100% justified.

originally posted by: panoz77
Agreed, this was not self defense, the guy who shot the assailant is totally f'ed. Going to spend many years in jail for that retaliation. He was no longer in threat, he was just pissed he got suckered. Had the guy advanced on him again, he would have then been 100% justified.

If they catch him. I wouldn't put money on it or if they do happen to catch him, will they prosecute? They may just clean his weapon for him, give him a few hours at the Range under instruction and turn him loose.

a reply to: infolurker

Clearly 2nd degree murder. He could have gotten away without using lethal force. This is why I think, unless you have an exceptional degree of emotional self control, you should not carry a gun. This guy obviously didn’t, now his life is ruined and another is taken.

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: infolurker

Clearly 2nd degree murder. He could have gotten away without using lethal force. This is why I think, unless you have an exceptional degree of emotional self control, you should not carry a gun. This guy obviously didn’t, now his life is ruined and another is taken.

Yep, doesn't look good for the shooter no matter what.

Hard to know the circumstances of what happened from that video to what led to the punch , but the fact the shooter was leaving and the assailant did not appear to follow is not going to make his self defense argument an easy one. Maybe he can argue confusion, brain damage, etc but it will be very hard to make a case as he clearly left the danger and the assailant did not appear to follow.

As to the guy getting killed I see many throwing him under the bus but we really don't have the full story from that video. Did the guy who get suckered punch rob the guy who did the sucker punching before? did he hit the sucker punch guy before?

to early and lack of background to really make or take any moral stance or defend either one imo.

a reply to: JIMC5499

at distance and adrenaline shakes i get center mass shots

but if you are in a home invasion situation youll be feet from the attacker.

dont get me wrong not like i would fire one shot and stop hoping i hit him in the head i would give the bad guy a serious case of lead poisoning

a reply to: medusaseyes1984
Difference of opinion.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

it looks to me that the thug was robbing him, if you watch you see him pick something off the counter that the victim dropped. looks like some sort of bag. thug didn't have anything in his hands before he sucker punched him.

pretty sure you can cap a robber.

Nope stealing doesn't mean you can kill them. Lethal force can only legally be used if your or someone else's life is in direct threat of deadly force. This is why not everyone should carry he got mad and killed him he knew he was wrong because he took off running. If it was a legal shoot he would have waited for the cops to show.

his running is something i haven't really been satisfied with.

someone was running but i didn't see him take off in that direction. passerby could have seen it and heard the shot and got out of there.

and if something started between them outside,
puncher following him into the store and waiting in line behind him seems aggressive in itself.
and several dudes are almost dressed the same which reminds me of a gang.
if you watch the guy on the ground who was shot, i think i saw some under the chin hair.

i hate to sound stereotypical, chicano popped into my mind.

i'll go back to see who is running.

a reply to: JIMC5499

i think i forgot to mention it was a 20ga brass busk shot

originally posted by: panoz77

Agreed, this was not self defense, the guy who shot the assailant is totally f'ed. Going to spend many years in jail for that retaliation. He was no longer in threat, he was just pissed he got suckered. Had the guy advanced on him again, he would have then been 100% justified.

He was also in illegal possession of a firearm...

a reply to: Xtrozero

How do they know that?

a reply to: sarahvital

you are correct, if you watch carefully, the person running off came from the left while the victim /shooter was walking to the door, when he pulled his weapon and fired that person turned around and started running to the left again,you can see them through the glass as the victim / shooter is firing. the victim / shooter turned and went right.

if you set the video to .50 speed and watch the windows to the left of the door at the .08 sec mark and watch to the 13 sec mark you can see it all. you will see the runner walking up, victim /shooter firing, the runner takes off, victim / shooter goes to the right.

also if you keep watching it appears that a cop came from the left with his weapon drawn. you can see him starting in the furthest window by the door at the end on the left. you can see his legs in that door and then some of the windows, then you can see him all the way in the windows, at the .32 sec mark you can see his legs through the first windows to the left all the way to the door at the end up to the door where the victim /shooter was at the .36 sec mark, then walk past the door the victim / shooter went out of.

here is are some screen shots for the runner and then the cop in the door,

Runner



Cop



as for what what dragonridr posted, i'm no lawyer but the way i understand illinois law is it stops being theft once a threat is made of, or violence takes place and then becomes robbery. justifiable force can then be used to protect yourself or others or protection of your property. if the thug was trying to steal what the victim /shooter had in his hand it could be seen as protection of his property. but some circumstances could make it tricky call.

me i'd vote not guilty if on the jury.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

thanks bernie.

a reply to: openminded2011

While I agree with your overall assessment of this case, I have to reply to this:

This is why I think, unless you have an exceptional degree of emotional self control, you should not carry a gun.

There are about 400 million guns in the USA, with 32% of people saying they actually own a gun themselves... 44% live in households where someone has a gun, so that's almost half who have easy access. There have been 21.52 million Concealed Carry Permits issued in the USA, and that doesn't account for about half of the states not requiring them to carry. Yet, across the USA, there has been 30,500 gun deaths in the USA so far in 2022.

Of that 30,500, about 16,000 were from suicides (total suicides minus the number of suicide/murders). There were about 1000 police shootings. And finally, there were a little over 800 defensive shootings. So, subtracting out, we have less than 13,000 illegal gun-related deaths against others. Out of a country where the population is over 300 million and there are 400 million guns!

Someone better let all these gun owners know they are unstable. They're certainly not making a very good case for that. Heck, we should be declining in population like a rock in a river according to that, if gun owners as a whole were irresponsible!

This one guy let his emotions over being sucker-punched get the better of him. But for every one like him, there are literally thousands of law-abiding gun-toters who do not. It's not reasonable to assume anything about the totality of all of them based on the bad actions of one. Heck, we don't even know if he was carrying legally at this point.

TheRedneck

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Good eyes, but to be honest... if I was walking by there unarmed and saw some guy shoot into the building, I think I would likely head for cover myself. So the runner doesn't appear to me to be in any way connected, just an innocent bystander who suddenly (and rightfully) decided he really didn't want to be where he was.

Similar with the cop. He comes walking up, and it does appear he may have his weapon drawn, but is that unusual for a cop when they hear a nearby gunshot? The gun went off at the open doorway, so the building would have likely amplified the sound to be even louder than normal... like a megaphone.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xtrozero

id rather risk the chances of going to jail with an undocumented gun than go to the graveyard

originally posted by: VierEyes

How do they know that?

I read that the guy was 19, and handguns are illegal in Chicago.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't know how they can assume his age from a video.