Man Sucker-Punches Another At Chicago Liquor Store, Victim Shoots Him Dead

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: infolurker

Definitely self defense, but surely this falls into kneecapping territory.

I love me some concealed carry as much as the next person, but if I'm going to shoot somebody I like them to know that they've been shot.

This guy isn't going to be sucker punching anyone else, but he's also not going to be playing hide the soap with the other convicts in the showers like he rightfully should.

did he have the right to kill this man will be a court decision, but the most important rule of gun safety is never point your weapon at something you do not intend to destroy. Shooter shot one time, center mass. And for the bonus, there is one less dickface on the planet today.

That's the first rule of gun safety in Texas. Where I come the first rule of gun safety is that keep the safety on till you're in position, and after that you don't put your finger till you're ready to shoot. There's a whole other bunch of rules after that which come before you even consider pulling the trigger. There's some before the first rule if you want to be pedantic, like not leaving a loaded gun unattended.

My primary aim when drawing on somebody is to neutralize them as a threat. This may mean killing them but that's an absolute last resort. In fact it's the third option after intimidating them into backing down, and taking them out with a non-lethal shot.

This is because I live in the real world, not in an action movie.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

I am .... speechless over the incongruity of what you just typed.

network_dude and PorkChop already explained the reasoning of what a CCW would do in this situation. I will add to their excellent points, that getting cute and "aiming small" is a good way to hit a bystander or send a ricochet bouncing around. Hence, the term "center mass".

This is kind of O/T so I'll politely leave you to your "kneecapping".

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: AaarghZombies

The point of concealed carry is to eliminate the threat, not to wound the threat so they "know they were shot". That opens you up to so much more liability and lawsuits.

If it comes to the point of drawing your firearm for self defense, you are stopping the threat, not temporarily postponing it. It's about defense and self preservation, not about sending a message of "you F'ed up, try to not do it again".

But as to the point of the self defense, if the attacker was retreating then it wasn't so much of a justified shooting.

As Network Dude said "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" definitely applies here.

Only in the movies. In real life you shoot a man in the leg, he's down, and any lawsuit for wounding will be an awful lot better than one for actually killing somebody.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

This is the real world, not an action movie where you can sharp shoot the moving target of a leg, let Alone knee...

Thats why you aim for center mass.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

I am .... speechless over the incongruity of what you just typed.

network_dude and PorkChop already explained the reasoning of what a CCW would do in this situation. I will add to their excellent points, that getting cute and "aiming small" is a good way to hit a bystander or send a ricochet bouncing around. Hence, the term "center mass".

This is kind of O/T so I'll politely leave you to your "kneecapping".

And I'll leave you to a lifetime of having killed somebody.

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

This is the real world, not an action movie where you can sharp shoot the moving target of a leg, let Alone knee...

Thats why you aim for center mass.

At that range it's a sure shot. And you forget that gang bangers can wear vests these days. Center ballistic plate won't get you very far. It also won't help you sleep at night when you see that guy's mother's face in your dreams.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

It is disturbing that you even have a ccp.
After seeing all your unstable, instigating posts.
Jesus

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

This is the real world, not an action movie where you can sharp shoot the moving target of a leg, let Alone knee...

Thats why you aim for center mass.

At that range it's a sure shot. And you forget that gang bangers can wear vests these days. Center ballistic plate won't get you very far. It also won't help you sleep at night when you see that guy's mother's face in your dreams.

No it is not a sure shot unless they are standing perfectly still....

The only gang bangers i see wearing bullet proof vests are rappers in music videos....you're not going to come across someone wearing armor in the streets very often.

And No, nobody is walking around with plate armor you can't see either.

Personally I wouldn't feel bad for killing this idiot. I got enough stuff going on where I don't need to tolerate somebody who would act like that.

I would have tackled him from behind and went straight for a choke......

Not saying I know I would win......just saying Personally that's how I would react cause I don't have a gun.....

Even if I had a gun I wouldn't shoot cause I don't ever want to go back to prison.

But........I don't feel bad for the dead guy, hopefully he knows Jesus.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

I don't think there are many street level gang members wearing a Slickster and Hesco L210's, but that doesn't change the fact that you aim center mass, not for moving limb shots.
It's simply a matter of protocol.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

In real life, if somebody is a threat and you have to draw your firearm to defend yourself and you only shoot them in the knee what happens when he does it again? How many times are you going to shoot someone in the knee before they shoot you or a loved one in the head?

I agree with Mandroid7, the thought of you having a ccp scares me more than this guy does.

All goes back to the saying "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". Odds are, if you shoot a gang banger in the knee after he tries to rob you, he will shoot right back and he is aiming to kill not wound.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is the real world, not an action movie.

You kneecap somebody, they don't get back up and chase after you. They're down.

Plus, this case took place in Illinois, not Texas. If you fatally shoot somebody who is threatening you, but who is unarmed, you can still be put on trial for it. You might well win, but the legal cost alone could bankrupt you.

Oh yeah, he is toast. They will ruthlessly prosecute him for this.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Damn! Posting circles...sorry

The "know that they've been shot" line? I retired to a 357 mag revolver.

They see a bit of chrome...the bullets going thru when they notice...when they begin to feel it...the FLAMES from the mag round will blast them in the face.

See. Felt. Dead...eyes wild. I'm good...but it would take a lot.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: AaarghZombies

Dbl post

edit on 09225030America/ChicagoSun, 04 Sep 2022 12:50:50 -050050202200000050 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Lysergic
Maybe the CTE made him do it?


a reply to: MountainLaurel

Well, that would be a possible defense his lawyer could use ? The shooter’s state of mind is going to be a big part of his defense, because in the video it doesn’t look like he was still in danger from the thug.

a reply to: MountainLaurel

It's a valid point. Know this: legally carrying, justified shooting...you're STILL going in cuffs(discretionary) off to the car and to jail: FIRST. And a good firearm attorney to represent you is a must.

You'll prob be going home...but not before: did you, why, cameras, witnesses...a host of charges...filed by the bad guys...because...they have rights too...

Sux...a quandary for sure.

PS Told the wife empty her gun...then hit him in the face with it.

She was held up in our driveway

The guy is a Hero to the people who been assaulted by thugs like this....

originally posted by: network dude
I believe this one falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I hate to see folks hurt or killed, but when you ask for it this loudly, why not give them what they really want.

It would be nice to see video of at least a few minutes prior to the punch. It starts with the punch and we have no clue what was going on prior to it.

originally posted by: Steadydietofnothing
The guy is a Hero to the people who been assaulted by thugs like this....

I'll play devil's advocate here. Why would the guy sucker punch a guy who is in line at a store. That isn't the knockout style game some are suggesting. Since the video starts with the punch what went on before it, but you want to call the guy a hero who basically will be convicted for murder over this and we have no clue what led up to the punch.

Watched the video again. This is an encore attaboy. That POS won't be doing that again.

He was hit hard in the head. That will surely have a huge impact on the way that he would respond. He was likely dazed and confused, he could have blacked out. In that situation you are not thinking rationally. The video only shows what happened from the cameras perspective, and context is missing. We don't know what he did, if anything, to warrant the punch.It's a sad situation that only happened because someone resorted to violence. Let that be a lesson, it's never the answer in these situations.